Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, Murdered, Athens, 11 May 2021 #3 *ARREST*

[untidyfurrows]

Yes, I'm positive sth is off with him, he is emotionally detached ("far away" gaze in pics), in fact he seems autistic to me.

Please don't associate autism with lack of empathy. It's a harmful, outdated and untrue stereotype.

 

[caylee17799]

Γλυκά Νερά: Προκλητική «απολογία» Μπάμπη - Ενοχοποιεί την Καρολάιν - Πάει να «κερδίσει» ελαφρυντικά
I just can't with this guy.
"I've honestly regretted what I did. I destroyed my life and my family. I'm fully aware that sorry is a very minor word, that in no way can alleviate the pain that I caused."
Don't know about you, guys, but if I wasn't aware of what he was referring to, I'd assume that he only had an affair, or something like that. "I destroyed MY life, MY family.". He literally took another person's life, HIS WIFE's life, for God's sake, and that's all he cares about. He's not regretting the killing, he's regretting that he was caught, and that he's gonna be (barely) punished for that. After shifting the entire blame on Caroline, he even goes on to say....
"There is no evidence of my guilt of the crimes I am accused of, which is the first and most essential of the conditions of the law that must be met in order to be possible to impose my temporary detention ".
I guess confessing to a murder doesn't meet the criteria to be considered as "evidence of someone's guilt of the crimes someone is accused of", at least not in B's mind. And then comes this..
"I have not made any preparatory action to facilitate my escape but on the contrary, whenever I was summoned by the authorities, I presented myself voluntarily and immediately without creating the slightest problem or obstructing the criminal proceedings. Also, I have never been a fugitive or fugitive in the past, I have a permanent and stable income and in no case am I charged with violating residence restrictions or escape or irrevocable convictions for similar or other criminal acts."
See? B is a good boy. B did not resist arrest, has never been charged with a similar crime, and came in voluntarily, so he should be allowed to roam free during the (potentially) 18 months until the trial. It's not like he killed someone, and lied about it for 37 days straight, or that he has free access to a bunch of choppers that he can fly on his own. Oh, wait...

 

[Angleterre]

It wouldn't surprise me if he removed the window before he killed Caroline too. Two and a half hours before the murder he had removed the camera card and destroyed it.

After he completed the murder, he moved on to hanging the dog in 9 minutes, and then had two hours to complete the rest of the staging before he called police.

In two hours he -
thought of everything he now needed to stage and what his story would be, where the money was hidden, what the robbers and their guns looked like, how the robbers had dealt with each of them, how he would use his phone to call out, he wouldn't have time to dream this up after police got there,
tied Caroline's hands behind her
ransacked parts of the house
hid the rings (other jewellery?)
probably deleted his argument/texts with Caroline on her phone and his own over that night and going back many weeks too,
removed the window
moved the baby onto Caroline (for unexplained reasons)
bound his head and tied himself up

It seems to me he raced around completing this with a plan already devised. A window should surely be difficult to remove, and would normally take a workman that amount of time all by itself with a lot of effort to loosen it and break the cement without being able to bang it with a sledgehammer. I don't know, maybe windows are less secure in Greece.

It always amazes me that the perpetrators of such heinous crimes such as this, think that it’s better to give a lot of details when recounting their fictitious narrative. The more details that you give , automatically allows the investigating officer a far greater opportunity of asking far more questions.

Its like any interview in life, for example a job interview. You can control the narrative and ergo the overall interview because although generally there is a list of questions drawn up to ask the interviewee, if an interview is performed correctly then probing will take place and from that point onwards, you are in control of your own interview because the interviewer can only probe and ask further questions based upon your initial and any subsequent responses. So effectively you can take your own interview down whatever avenue you that you choose and be in control of it for virtually the whole process.

Transposing that ethos to Babis’s interview with the Police then it follows that the more details he gave , the more the Police can probe it , albeit the roles are reversed and the police become in charge of the interview because they can take it to wherever Babis’s account goes and therefore challenge and undo it and take it all apart and he is then caught out .
I shouldn’t really say this I suppose but if I were in that position and I wasn’t going to admit to the crime then I would say that I can’t really remember anything other than very vague details because of the stress of the incident and the impact it’s had upon me, sort of like it being that traumatic that I have blocked it out and can just recall snapshots of it all (enough to create a narrative away from me but to build a picture of what I want to portray) and leave it at that . Failing that then I could say NO COMMENT or I INVOKE THE 5th but that does look more suspicious even though a judge guides us not to draw any inference and to disregard that fact .
He’s effectively given the Police all they need from day 1. #justiceforcarolinecrouch

 

[MsBetsy]

Please don't associate autism with lack of empathy. It's a harmful, outdated and untrue stereotype.

I just realized when I quoted the OP I was in a rush and didn't read thoroughly. When I commented on B's statements I wasn't contributing them in any way to autism.

I was referring to his lack of emotions and also the way he described how he kept repeating to Caroline that what she did to L was very bad, as he kept holding her, or was on top of her pushing her head into the pillow. It sounds like something a child would say.

Anyway, I'm not sure I believe anything he says since he appears to be on a mission to attack Caroline's character in an effort to save himself.

He may actually be very intelligent but his emotional intelligence seems to be lacking. He hasn't shown any remorse as far as I can tell. Police described him as being "condescending," which made me think he believes he's smarter than everyone else. It seems that every perpetrator of intimate-partner homicide has a variety of narcissistic traits.

IMO

 

[Estelle]

Wow. So the first time that B' s mother held the baby was on the morning of the murder. How unkind not to have taken her to visit before.

How far away from B's house were his parents situated? No excuse but just wondering.

 

[Winterbells]

Have we read anywhere that B tried to revive C after he’d suffocated her accidentally on purpose?

 

[caylee17799]

How far away from B's house were his parents situated? No excuse but just wondering.

They live in Agia Paraskevi, about 10-15 minutes drive from Glyka Nera (Google maps even says 7 minutes).
Report says that he and baby L were staying at his parents' after the murder.
Έγκλημα στα Γλυκά Νερά: Με τους γονείς του έμενε ο πιλότος μετά το φόνο - Ποιες οι αντιδράσεις τους (βίντεο)

 

[everybodhi]

They live in Agia Paraskevi, about 10-15 minutes drive from Glyka Nera (Google maps even says 7 minutes).
Report says that he and baby L were staying at his parents' after the murder.
Έγκλημα στα Γλυκά Νερά: Με τους γονείς του έμενε ο πιλότος μετά το φόνο - Ποιες οι αντιδράσεις τους (βίντεο)

I seriously doubt Babis is emotionally equiped to care for a child, it requires constantly putting her needs above your own. Every dang day.
If the child lives with him in the future, there will always be a woman taking care of her, if only a nanny.
Actually, I can imagine him interviewing young nannies, choosing his next source to groom.
I think he's fairly predictable.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I think he already chose his next victim, I mean new girlfriend.

I think he had someone lined up before Caroline died. I think maybe she didn't even know it.

 

[Estelle]

Have we read anywhere that B tried to revive C after he’d suffocated her accidentally on purpose?

No but I read that one journalist on a TV show stated that B tried to revive C afterwards but there has been no confirmation of that.

 

[Estelle]

They live in Agia Paraskevi, about 10-15 minutes drive from Glyka Nera (Google maps even says 7 minutes).
Report says that he and baby L were staying at his parents' after the murder.
Έγκλημα στα Γλυκά Νερά: Με τους γονείς του έμενε ο πιλότος μετά το φόνο - Ποιες οι αντιδράσεις τους (βίντεο)

Lydia was born in June 2020. I don't think Athens would have been locked down continually since then so surely there were times when B's parents could have visited to see Lydia. Perhaps his parents did not approve of the shotgun wedding?

Starting from 4 May 2020, after a 42-day lockdown, Greece began to gradually lift restrictions on movement and to restart business activity.

 

[Estelle]

Why did C take this photo?

A photo taken by Caroline, with the pilot cuddling with the baby on the living room sofa. The photo was taken at 12 a.m. for an unknown reason, from the application she had on her mobile phone that is connected to the cameras, with ELAS looking for the reason that Caroline took this frame, when she had retired to her bedroom.

A riddle that is expected to be answered as the tangle of the case unfolds.

Eerie photo of living room where husband 'staged burglary after murdering wife'

 

[Estelle]

I think he already chose his next victim, I mean new girlfriend.

I think he had someone lined up before Caroline died. I think maybe she didn't even know it.

I don't agree that B had a new girlfriend. I predict he was too busy with his organised crime activities. I don't think he really believed that C would ever leave him previously and saw her as making threats to leave but not actioning on them until that night perhaps when she revealed she had found out about his organised crime. I read that she asked him to leave that night. Perhaps when he refused, she started phoning around for alternate accommodation for herself to move out the next day.

 

[MsBetsy]

No but I read that one journalist on a TV show stated that B tried to revive C afterwards but there has been no confirmation of that.

I doubt it's true, especially if he held her down for ten minutes until she stopped moving. Didn't the lawyer say B was expected to introduce new information that he considered significant? I guess we haven't heard yet what it was?

 

[MsBetsy]

Why did C take this photo?

A photo taken by Caroline, with the pilot cuddling with the baby on the living room sofa. The photo was taken at 12 a.m. for an unknown reason, from the application she had on her mobile phone that is connected to the cameras, with ELAS looking for the reason that Caroline took this frame, when she had retired to her bedroom.

A riddle that is expected to be answered as the tangle of the case unfolds.

Eerie photo of living room where husband 'staged burglary after murdering wife'

I thought LE said that was the last image of him on the camera footage, not that Caroline had taken a picture of it herself. She reportedly tried to book a hotel room around midnight. I also thought she was asleep for more than 6 minutes. According to the data it was almost two hours. I could be wrong but that's what it sounded like from the time her heartrate slowed until it suddenly increased. Imo

 

[Treacletoo]

I thought LE said that was the last image of him on the camera footage, not that Caroline had taken a picture of it herself. She reportedly tried to book a hotel room around midnight. I also thought she was asleep for more than 6 minutes. According to the data it was almost two hours. I could be wrong but that's what it sounded like from the time her heartrate slowed until it suddenly increased. Imo

I wonder why the baby was awake at that time? Did he get her out of her cot so that Caroline could not take her and leave?

 

[everybodhi]

I think he already chose his next victim, I mean new girlfriend.

I think he had someone lined up before Caroline died. I think maybe she didn't even know it.

Yes, but when he gets out he's starting over, if he already chose his next victim I don't think she's waiting around.
It will be more difficult now that he's famous for murdering his wife and puppy, but I can see him getting a young naive nanny in the house and love bombing her, taking her on helicopter rides, exotic vacations.
There is an excellent post in the thread by @Ruiz174, posting from the Philippines about western men pursuing young local women for their fetishized fantasy of an unequal relationship. I also live in South Asia and regularly see old western men with their beautiful young brides. And like Ruiz said, I think next time he will choose someone from a poor country and bring her to Greece. Someone he can trap who doesn't have the family and community nearby to give her options to leave. jmo

Bringing this post forward:

I've been following this story since B's first interview lying about foreigners torturing and killing his wife in front of their baby. Like C, I'm a Filipino who was born and raised abroad. I live in the Philippines now and C looks a lot like a relative of mine.

From the beginning, C's ethnicity would get brought up in the various forums I read, mostly about her mom and cultural differences. Some people brought up that B had a fetish for C. I tried to dismiss it and give B the benefit of the doubt in the beginning. Sometimes, you don't always want to think it just comes down to race and the stereotypes involved. It seems clear to me now that her Eurasian looks did have something to do with why a 28 year old full grown man would take interest in a 15 year old girl.

I saw her instagram account. She had several pictures with B on vacation in the Philippines in 2017. I found it somewhat suspicious that the pictures were all on a particular island where you see many older white men with very young local women or girls. At first, I dismissed it and thought that island has good diving spots. Yet, I couldn't help but wonder why they would come all the way from Europe and go to that island when there are much better diving areas in the country like Palawan.

Caroline was young and had the looks he wanted but she grew up in Europe and had a British passport. She had a lot of options and opportunities. She was growing into a woman and probably didn't conform to that docile, submissive stereotype he fantasized about when he first saw her at 15.

Sadly, I wouldn't be surprised if he got out in 20 years, came back to the Philippines and found himself another teenager to control and fulfill his fantasies. Next time, he'll probably choose someone very poor, maybe one of the numerous Amerasian girls living near the abandoned U.S. Naval bases trying to find a way to take care of her family.

He killed his teenage wife and her puppy in front of his baby daughter. I feel really nervous for the next girl he finds when he gets out of prison, if he goes to prison.

 

[Dotta]

Please don't associate autism with lack of empathy. It's a harmful, outdated and untrue stereotype.

Sorry, when I wrote this I didn't implicate that B killed because of his alleged (by me) condition. It was never my intention to stygmatize.

 

[everybodhi]

I doubt it's true, especially if he held her down for ten minutes until she stopped moving. Didn't the lawyer say B was expected to introduce new information that he considered significant? I guess we haven't heard yet what it was?

Well, if he tried to revive her, after turning her on her back to administer CPR, he turned her back over on her stomach and tied her hands before the cops arrived. Seems unlikely.
I don't believe it but I'm in the camp of people who believe he planned the entire thing while downstairs on the couch, the first move was taking out the memory cards. jmo

 

[Dotta]

I thought LE said that was the last image of him on the camera footage, not that Caroline had taken a picture of it herself. She reportedly tried to book a hotel room around midnight. I also thought she was asleep for more than 6 minutes. According to the data it was almost two hours. I could be wrong but that's what it sounded like from the time her heartrate slowed until it suddenly increased. Imo

But that picture from the camera was found on her phone. B with the baby. LE think it is important. Did she screenshot it herself (she had app connected to camera) or was it sent to her? And why?