FL- 12 Story Condo Partial Building Collapse, many still unaccounted for, Miami, 24 June 2021

[Warwick1991]

Wasn't it said that the pool was on the 2nd floor? If so, it sounds as if the building pancaked from bottom to top, as this (missing) person on the 4th floor watched the pool cave in.


From her fourth-floor balcony, Cassandra Stratton, 40, was on the phone with her husband as she watched the pool cave in, feeling the tremor, her older sister Ashley Dean said. She described the quake, and then, in a moment, the line cut off.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...live-updates/#link-7WZEI43MSBCF3N5WMRBRJJYMZI

From looking at pre-collapse photos, it looks like the pool may have been above at least part of the parking garage. That is a common design in the area because the sites for these kinds of buildings are usually too tight to allow enough land for a pool on the ground. I’ve been in other buildings in the area that have the pool above the garage, with the requisite heavy structural members in the garage to carry the load of a pool filled with water above.

Taking another look at post-collapse photos, the pool is still recognizable and may still be at least partially intact. Perhaps it is cracked and not fully caved in. Like so much of this situation, many unanswered questions.

 

[al66pine]

Condo Ins? Rebuild? How Soon?
It’s interesting to read discussion of possible collapse causes from our members w engineering, architectural, construction, design experience. Many talents here. TY.

Presumably the Condo Owners Assn’s master prop. ins. policy has sufficient $ coverage for replacement (per below), but was this damage caused by a covered peril in that policy? Can this condo complex/development be replaced/rebuilt on this site? If so, how long until occupancy? Could it be sooner than several years?

Will condo unit owners receive payments thru their prop ins policies (per below), based on damages from a covered peril? If a condo unit becomes uninhabitable by a covered peril, some policies pay “Loss of Use” or “Additional Living Expenses” benefits for a given period of time, providing owner $ to stay elsewhere, awaiting reconstruction.

What a tragic mess for everyone involved. my2ct. Even beyond the deaths, injuries, and property destruction, so many issues to sort here.

__________________________________________
FL statute* requires each Condo Owners Assn to buy prop ins. policy for replacement cost of the prop, which ime includes main structure(s), parking garages, common areas/common elements such as lobby, hallways, elevators, stairways, pool, tennis courts, rec facilities, and other improvements on the land, such as landscaping, driveways, etc, but does not cover condo unit interiors. Ins proceeds of this policy for prop damage are payable to the condo assn, not to individual unit owners. FL law* requires independent ins. appraisal every 36 months.
Condo Unit Owner policy (known as HO-6** which each unit owner buys for self) is separate from master policy written for the entire assn. It covers interior prop within the unit, such as floor, wall,& ceiling coverings, as well as attached items such as electrical fixtures, water heater, appliances, built-in cabinets & countertops, window treatments, and finally, owner’s personal prop, such as furniture, clothing, other household items, etc. FL statute*** prescribes the scope of coverage.

* Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine
** Home insurance - Wikipedia
*** “ (g) A condominium unit owner policy must conform to the requirements of s. 627.714.”
^ FL statute 718.111(11)(g)

 

[indicolite22]

Engineer who surveyed Champlain Towers wasn't asked to check foundations | Daily Mail Online

• Champlain Towers Condominium Associates hired Frank Morabito to review the building and recommend changes
  
• He spent six months studying the building then produced a report with recommendations
  
• He did not dig beneath the building or look at its foundations, a lawyer for the condo board told DailyMail.com
  
• That is not a requirement for recertification - which happens in Miami Dade every 40 years

Morabito presented his report to the board and at the top of the list of recommendations was fixing the roof before hurricane season.

He recommended concrete work and other structural and electrical changes but it's unclear what those were exactly.

 

[DropthePuck]

If US developers are anything like Aussie developers, they don't care. They will develop on any parcel of land that the local authorities allow them to build on.

We have developers that have put huge subdivisions on flood plains in Queensland. The authorities allowed them to do that. Is it any surprise that the homes were all flooded and damaged - lives lost and severely affected - during massive rains and dam overflow a few years back?

It truly is up to the local authorities to reign them in. Not allow development in insuitable places. Especially high rise development and large subdivision development where so many people can come to grief.

IMO

BBM. Sadly, greed is universal.

 

[indicolite22]

Champlain Towers Public Records Documents

List o documents (PDF files):

• 8777 COLLINS AVE-1979 PLANS
• 8777 COLLINS AVENUE - Preliminary Review Plans for 40 Year Re-certification
• 8777 COLLINS AVE - Structural Field Survey Report (October 2018)
  
• 8777 COLLINS AVE-PERMIT # 2021-211 (roof repairs)
  
• 8777 COLLINS AVE - Electrical and mechanical systems evaluation (October 2018)
  
• 8777 COLLINS AVE - CODE COMPLIANCE CASES
• 8777 COLLINS AVE - Unverified Inspection Report (August-September 2018)
  
• 8777 COLLINS AVE-ROOF AND FACADE MAINTENANCE ANCHOR SYSTEM
• 8777 COLLINS AVE-PERMIT # 2021-462 (concrete repairs)
  
• 8777 COLLINS AVE - CODE COMPLIANCE LETTERS ISSUED
• 8777 COLLINS AVE-PERMIT # 2021-466 PERMITS (electrical work)
  
• 8777 COLLINS AVE-PERMIT # 2021-466 PLANS

Resolution No. 2021-2803 State of Emergency-Champlain Tower Collapse

 

[indicolite22]

Mystery of what caused South Florida condo collapse deepens - CNN

"This collapse is a classic column failure. Which means the building itself was supported by a series of pillars. If the pillars fail, everything fails," said Kit Miyamoto, a structural engineer and California Seismic Safety Commission chairman.

Also in the article, S Wdowinski, the author of the scientific article that mentions the building was sinking, pointed out that it would have been a problem if sinking was not uniform. In that case observable cracks could appear. This was confirmed by a member of the American Institute of Architects:

"People in the building would see cracks in their floors, the table would not be flat, things would roll off," Karp said. "You would see cracks in your walls. You look up in the ceiling and you see cracks in the ceiling."

 

[SouthAussie]

Heroic stories are starting to emerge ... this lady and her daughter tumbled from the 9th floor to the 5th floor, the mum broke her pelvis and still managed to find her daughter and drag her out.


A mother who suffered a broken pelvis in the horror Florida condo collapse managed to pull herself and her daughter alive from the rubble, despite a four-floor plunge, according to reports.

Mum Angela Gonzalez and her 16-year-old daughter, Devon, fell from the ninth floor to the fifth floor when part of the 12-story Champlain Towers South Condo in Surfside collapsed early Thursday morning, local time, New York Post reported.

Despite significant injury, Ms Gonzalez miraculously found a way to save her daughter. However her husband Edgar is among the missing.

Mother and daughter are being treated at the nearby Jackson Memorial Hospital

Miami building collapse: Badly injured mum pulls daughter from Miami rubble

 

[JaimeInLA]

Wasn't it said that the pool was on the 2nd floor? If so, it sounds as if the building pancaked from bottom to top, as this (missing) person on the 4th floor watched the pool cave in.


From her fourth-floor balcony, Cassandra Stratton, 40, was on the phone with her husband as she watched the pool cave in, feeling the tremor, her older sister Ashley Dean said. She described the quake, and then, in a moment, the line cut off.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...live-updates/#link-7WZEI43MSBCF3N5WMRBRJJYMZI

i’m trying to make sense of her comment, because the pool is clearly still there in all the photos.

 

[JaimeInLA]

i’m trying to make sense of her comment, because the pool is clearly still there in all the photos.

here is a better photo.

 

[SouthAussie]

here is a better photo.

I have been looking at the pool in this link - prior to the collapse. To compare.

Champlain Towers East Condos in Surfside | Sales & Rentals

I imagine the pool is tilted over, due to some of the supports under one side having collapsed/sunk. Which might be hard to see from an above angle. I think the pool's water is completely gone in your pics.

 

[indicolite22]

Heroic stories are starting to emerge ... this lady and her daughter tumbled from the 9th floor to the 5th floor, the mum broke her pelvis and still managed to find her daughter and drag her out.


A mother who suffered a broken pelvis in the horror Florida condo collapse managed to pull herself and her daughter alive from the rubble, despite a four-floor plunge, according to reports.

Mum Angela Gonzalez and her 16-year-old daughter, Devon, fell from the ninth floor to the fifth floor when part of the 12-story Champlain Towers South Condo in Surfside collapsed early Thursday morning, local time, New York Post reported.

Despite significant injury, Ms Gonzalez miraculously found a way to save her daughter. However her husband Edgar is among the missing.

Mother and daughter are being treated at the nearby Jackson Memorial Hospital

Miami building collapse: Badly injured mum pulls daughter from Miami rubble

Were they in the part where the condos were cut in half?

 

[SouthAussie]

Were they in the part where the condos were cut in half?

I don't know. The part I posted is all the article says about them.
Her husband is missing, and they managed to get out, so it would make sense that their apartment might have been cut in half.

(My apologies if it is paywalled for you, it's not paywalled for me.)

 

[SouthAussie]

here is a better photo.

In this photo (different angle) we can see that part of the pool deck is much closer to the ground than the rest of it.



Miami building collapse: Badly injured mum pulls daughter from Miami rubble

 

[mrsu]

I cannot stop following this and it’s just completely horrifying. Those poor people. And I cannot even fathom being a searcher - everything is heavy and not easily moved. I just can’t imagine. It’s been keeping me up at night.

 

[indicolite22]

VIDEO: A man whose relatives live in the collapsed Florida building says he's hardly seen rescue workers searching for survivors, as they stay at an apartment overlooking the scene

https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1408574226240618499

 

[indicolite22]

I don't know. The part I posted is all the article says about them.
Her husband is missing, and they managed to get out, so it would make sense that their apartment might have been cut in half.

(My apologies if it is paywalled for you, it's not paywalled for me.)

No, I can read it. My question was more like "I wonder if...".

 

[IQuestion]

Champlain Towers Public Records Document

snipped to emphasize one specific report
INDICOLITE (you are a genius at research!!)

• 8777 COLLINS AVE - Structural Field Survey Report (October 2018)

 

[IQuestion]

(ugh, somehow my post got entwined, but hope you can figure it out.) THE STRUCTURAL FIELD SURVEY REPORT OCT 2018

• 8777 COLLINS AVE - Structural Field Survey Report (October 2018)

I read this report and my jaw dropped. I am unable to copy and paste the items the MC observed and recommendations. So I'll just recap from Pg 4 items D& E.
(lots of concrete issues reported over and over, spalling, incorrect sloping for drainage etc.) and on Pg 7 items J & K on pg 8:
"MC visual observations revealed that many of the previous garage concrete repairs are failing resulting in additional concrete cracking, spalling and leaching of calcium carbonate deposits."
In any case (I am not an engineer) many of the recommendations seem to require a lot of time, disruption and expense. If this was the first inspection in 40 years, then I might say, "What did you expect?" But the author of the report, changed my opinion, wrote a lot about concrete issues and "failed slabs."
Man-oh-man.... it is a dangerous place for the rescuers.

 

[IQuestion]

i’m trying to make sense of her comment, because the pool is clearly still there in all the photos.

JamieInLA....Thank you for the side by side photos. It appears there is a square building by the pool....could it be the cabana? And then in the "after" photo the structure is totally destroyed. (or broke off and tumbled into the parking area below.) So I am thinking part of the "pool area" did collapse or at least appeared to collapse to an observer at night and during the ensuing chaos.
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/8c0c414c-f5e1-40e8-8f2a-ef04945d15f2-jpeg.302309/

 

[IQuestion]

i’m trying to make sense of her comment, because the pool is clearly still there in all the photos.

Duplicate post, ugh!