Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, tortured and murdered, Athens, 11 May 2021 #4 *ARREST*

[Skigh]

And there was me thinking, when he confessed, that it was all over bar the sentencing.

Me too.I was expecting this thread to get very quiet until the trial.

Now I await the latest revelation and twist and turn in this forever changing case.

 

[Estelle]

In many interviews, including this one, AK's been hammering on about B's body language and his being completely emotionless after the murder of C. This is the first interview where he's mentioned "tie-ups with other murders." I'm wondering if he's hinting around that this wasn't the first time that B has murdered someone. In other words, is AK hinting around that we're not just seeing the coldness of narcissist personality disorder, we're also seeing experience? An experienced murderer? JMO

I read somewhere that someone wondered whether B had been a "contract killer". It was probably in one of the lists of questions I posted on the last thread posed by Greek locals.

However, currently I interpret "tie-ups with other murders" to allude to the death of Stavros.

 

[Dotta]

Yes I agree. I have also had many experiences with narcissists. My mother was a somatic narcissist and my father was a cerebral narcissist. I did not know then.

Therefore I often attracted male narcissists who would love bomb me with flowers, dinners, and so on until they thought they had won me over and then they turned.

That is how I see C's and B's relationship. B loved bombed C flying over to see her and flying above her on school excursions. What girl would not think he was madly in love with her? She was impressed and assumed he loved her. She was probably in limerence (Limerence is a state of mind which results from a romantic attraction to another person and typically includes obsessive thoughts and fantasies and a desire to form or maintain a relationship with the object of love and have one's feelings reciprocated).

However, we have learnt today that C fell pregnant and had the miscarriage before they married. It is not a good start to a marriage but they did not have a shot gun marriage as we previously thought. IMO C was more in love with B than he was with her from the beginning. He was her first love. For B to marry her, he must have had an agenda. A young girl that he could control? Wealthy or generous parents? A cover for his bisexuality to give him respectability and to have a child?

But who said she had the miscarriage before the wedding??? It seems absurd.

 

[Dotta]

And there was me thinking, when he confessed, that it was all over bar the sentencing.

Dont forget that Greek Tragedy has 3-5 acts! By the way, which act are we watching now? 3rd?

 

[Patrick Jane]

I read somewhere that someone wondered whether B had been a "contract killer". It was probably in one of the lists of questions I posted on the last thread posed by Greek locals.

However, currently I interpret "tie-ups with other murders" to allude to the death of Stavros.

Yes, that could be an allusion to SD. But I also took it, in the context of the body language discussion, to hint around to something more about B, something like experience. I wouldn't go as far as contract killer, because wouldn't a professional be more clever than to have such a ridiculous staging? Also, I don't think serial killer necessarily either. But I get the sense that there is a feeling that he's at ease because he's done it before. If this is what they're thinking, maybe they're misreading his psychology, maybe he's so at ease because he's a narcissist? But I think AK must have some kind of evidence (of other crimes, murders?) to be going out on TV nearly everyday and dropping these kinds of hints. So the discussion of the body language is the way to hint around in the media, and clue in the public without saying anything about information LE has. JMO

 

[Patrick Jane]

The way this lawyer talks about B's coolness (state of being emotionless) also has me thinking along these lines.

new interview

11:40 same lawyer (from my previous post): looking at this from a foundation of logic, I think that very serious matters will come to light/turn up

 

[Patrick Jane]

Add in the heavy S.W.A.T. escort to the courthouse of twenty guards, and removing B from general population at the prison . . . yeah, I think something is going on. JMO

 

[tayaway]

Yes I agree. I have also had many experiences with narcissists. My mother was a somatic narcissist and my father was a cerebral narcissist. I did not know then.

Therefore I often attracted male narcissists who would love bomb me with flowers, dinners, and so on until they thought they had won me over and then they turned.

That is how I see C's and B's relationship. B loved bombed C flying over to see her and flying above her on school excursions. What girl would not think he was madly in love with her? She was impressed and assumed he loved her. She was probably in limerence (Limerence is a state of mind which results from a romantic attraction to another person and typically includes obsessive thoughts and fantasies and a desire to form or maintain a relationship with the object of love and have one's feelings reciprocated).

However, we have learnt today that C fell pregnant and had the miscarriage before they married. It is not a good start to a marriage but they did not have a shot gun marriage as we previously thought. IMO C was more in love with B than he was with her from the beginning. He was her first love. For B to marry her, he must have had an agenda. A young girl that he could control? Wealthy or generous parents? A cover for his bisexuality to give him respectability and to have a child?

All of the above!

 

[Lola68]

Re B parents: No surprise, didn't C write that she didn’t like them? There was evidently tension there.

bbm

I think that was in the digital version of the diary...

 

[Dotta]

bbm

I think that was in the digital version of the diary...

Thank you. But now they say this digital one is fake. Written by B.... Well...

 

[Patrick Jane]

Yes, that could be an allusion to SD. But I also took it, in the context of the body language discussion, to hint around to something more about B, something like experience. I wouldn't go as far as contract killer, because wouldn't a professional be more clever than to have such a ridiculous staging? Also, I don't think serial killer necessarily either. But I get the sense that there is a feeling that he's at ease because he's done it before. If this is what they're thinking, maybe they're misreading his psychology, maybe he's so at ease because he's a narcissist? But I think AK must have some kind of evidence (of other crimes, murders?) to be going out on TV nearly everyday and dropping these kinds of hints. So the discussion of the body language is the way to hint around in the media, and clue in the public without saying anything about information LE has. JMO

Also why keep hammering on about body language? Why already know that B murdered C. Why would we need to keep analyzing his body language for clues? There's something new AK's telling us here I think. Something we don't yet know. Something's he's hinting at. JMO

 

[Lola68]

Thank you. But now they say this digital one is fake. Written by B.... Well...

Exactly

 

[MsBetsy]

Murdered Caroline Crouch's diary of despair | Daily Mail Online

According to this article, and if the police are correct in their code-breaking skills, CC called B a 'Palio Poustis' in her diary. For whatever reason, the Daily Mail have decided to ignore the homophobic element to that expression and focus on the 'dirty old' bit and suggest it was used to describe B, possibly because of their age gap.
Could any of our Greek speakers shed any light on whether it's commonplace to use this expression as a sort of general slur about any pervy old man, including paedophiles for example, or does it tend to be aimed specfically against older gay men?

Well, according to my Greek friend, the words are "very bad curse words" usually used as insults. She said "Malakas" is the worst one. She said it could be directed at anyone out of anger or contempt, they wouldn't necessarily have to be gay.

 

[Dotta]

Also why keep hammering on about body language? Why already know that B murdered C. Why would we need to keep analyzing his body language for clues? There's something new AK's telling us here I think. Something we don't yet know. Something's he's hinting at. JMO

Mr A/T K took the role of the Chorus in Greek Tragedy. Explaining /hinting between the acts.

 

[Winterbells]

Well, according to my Greek friend, the words are "very bad curse words" usually used as insults. She said "Malakas" is the worst one. She said it could be directed at anyone out of anger or contempt, they wouldn't necessarily have to be gay.

Thanks for asking your friend.
But I'm asking specifically about the use of 'Palio Poustis' which contains the Greek words for 'old *advertiser censored*' or 'old fa***t'.

 

[Winterbells]

'Malakas' seems to mean 'wa***r', which at least isn't hate speech, unlike the other one.

 

[Wishingwell]

But I'm asking specifically about the use of 'Palio Poustis' which contains the Greek words for 'old *advertiser censored*' or 'old fa***t'.

I have thought about this. It strikes me as odd that a person of C’s age would use it. It was mainly used in the US years ago and to a lesser extent in the U.K.
Doesn’t really answer your question but it has got me thinking

 

[Skigh]

But I'm asking specifically about the use of 'Palio Poustis' which contains the Greek words for 'old *advertiser censored*' or 'old fa***t'.

I have thought about this. It strikes me as odd that a person of C’s age would use it. It was mainly used in the US years ago and to a lesser extent in the U.K.
Doesn’t really answer your question but it has got me thinking

Could it be a word she has heard her father use? I can certainly see her older English father using it.

 

[Wishingwell]

I have thought about this. It strikes me as odd that a person of C’s age would use it. It was mainly used in the US years ago and to a lesser extent in the U.K.
Doesn’t really answer your question but it has got me thinking

Could it be a word she has heard her father use? I can certainly see her older English father using it.

Good point! It is a dated word.

 

[Winterbells]

@Wishingwell I agree, it's an old-fashioned term of homosexual abuse which I'd associate more with someone of CC's Dad's generation.... for example. But maybe the Greek version isn't so outdated sounding. Nevertheless, I find it interesting that CC would use it 'for' B.
Maybe he made a habit of reading about young men exposing themselves and the like.
(Is there any evidence that he went to Mykonos himself, or do we just know about his friend going there?)