Found Deceased UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London - Clapham Common area, 3 March 2021 *Arrests* #14

[V347]

In regards to the comments about CCTV, I seem to remember some very diligent searching of CCTV by sleuthers of the area at the times Sarah went missing and I seem to recall there was a still image of a busy road with a car parked on the pavement with its hazards on and both doors open. I’m assuming that was WC and SE?!?

 

[Lola68]

I do think it may be possible that he had recc'ed the area in advance. He may have driven that way home on many occasions and possibly run some warped fantasies through his mind about picking up a female jogger on that route. Let's face it - a lot of us have spent time looking at the cctv cameras and it is easy to see where there are "black spots". He planned enough to hire a car and buy protective film. I think he may have had a few stopping places in mind - that one was just the timing with poor SE walking past

As LE, he would likely know where the black spots were IMO

 

[infinit]

In regards to the comments about CCTV, I seem to remember some very diligent searching of CCTV by sleuthers of the area at the times Sarah went missing and I seem to recall there was a still image of a busy road with a car parked on the pavement with its hazards on and both doors open. I’m assuming that was WC and SE?!?

No it wouldn't have been - There wasn't a traffic camera that had sight of where they met - Although there was a few hundred m's up the road that he likely would have passed and then the one going out towards Kent that were of particularly of interest if I remember correctly.

 

[arrogantcat]

Disappointing to see so many comments insisting his wife “must have known”. If you know your husband had the potential to rape and murder, you don’t sleep next to them at night and let them give your kids a bath!

Popular opinion tells women that ‘boys will be boys’ and to just accept an awful lot of deviant behaviour from the men in their lives. Oh, he stays up all night watching violent *advertiser censored*? It’s just a fantasy life! It’s healthy!
He goes out at all hours and comes home drunk or drugged? Stop being a nag, he’s entitled to his downtime with the boys!
He makes crude jokes or comments about women and sex and checks out women in the street? He’s just a red blooded male! Stop being so jealous and possessive.

Don’t check your partner’s search history. Don’t snoop on their phone. Be a good, open-minded, trusting wife.

She trusted him. She followed all the good wife rules that we’re told at every turn, and now that it turns out he’s a criminal it’s somehow her fault for not spotting it sooner?

Presumably, he had colleagues and family members who spent just as much time around him day to day. If none of those saw anything amiss, why should we hold his poor wife to a completely different standard?

 

[Kelly C]

Sorry but the wife saying this could have been an episode of manic depression (known now as bipolar disorder) is extremely stigmatising and wrong.

I work in psychiatry and I can tell you that people with a psychosis / mood disorder do not do this (in this example)! He has no history of previous episodes. An elevated mood does not lead to premeditated murder. Yes it can make one do bizarre things but not that!

He is a narcissistic misogynistic psychopath through and through and has no psychosis or bipolar disorder. He may feign symptoms of mental ill health to play the “poor me” card but he clearly had full capacity and was in full control of his actions at the time, and beforehand.

just my (expert) opinion

 

[Lola68]

I do think it may be possible that he had recc'ed the area in advance. He may have driven that way home on many occasions and possibly run some warped fantasies through his mind about picking up a female jogger on that route. Let's face it - a lot of us have spent time looking at the cctv cameras and it is easy to see where there are "black spots". He planned enough to hire a car and buy protective film. I think he may have had a few stopping places in mind - that one was just the timing with poor SE walking past

As LE, he would likely know where the black spots were IMO

I think that he could have taken his firearm home with him and used it to quieten SE. I know it has been said that they are all handed in after every shift, but knowing how he has gotten away with crimes in the past I simply don’t trust that LE were as diligent as we are made to believe.

I won’t go into details but they are very strict about handing in fire arms in the UK after a shift. If it turns out there was a lapse in protocol, the Met will have even more to answer for and senior heads will roll IMO

 

[CriLondon]

Sorry but the wife saying this could have been an episode of manic depression (known now as bipolar disorder) is extremely stigmatising and wrong.

I work in psychiatry and I can tell you that people with a psychosis / mood disorder do not do this (in this example)! He has no history of previous episodes. An elevated mood does not lead to premeditated murder. Yes it can make one do bizarre things but not that!

He is a narcissistic misogynistic psychopath through and through and has no psychosis or bipolar disorder. He may feign symptoms of mental ill health to play the “poor me” card but he clearly had full capacity and was in full control of his actions at the time, and beforehand.

just my (expert) opinion

I find myself agreeing entirely on this , almost instinctively.
What do you think of the kidnap,rape,arson type of crime connection ?

 

[arrogantcat]

Sorry but the wife saying this could have been an episode of manic depression (known now as bipolar disorder) is extremely stigmatising and wrong.

I work in psychiatry and I can tell you that people with a psychosis / mood disorder do not do this (in this example)! He has no history of previous episodes. An elevated mood does not lead to premeditated murder. Yes it can make one do bizarre things but not that!

He is a narcissistic misogynistic psychopath through and through and has no psychosis or bipolar disorder. He may feign symptoms of mental ill health to play the “poor me” card but he clearly had full capacity and was in full control of his actions at the time, and beforehand.

just my (expert) opinion

Definitely agree with the sentiment of all of this, although we do have to be careful about diagnosis-by-Internet and claiming credentials online in general.
His wife’s statement just sounded, to me, like a lay person desperately clutching at any possibly explanation for why her world was destroyed. Easier to blame a random label than the person, sometimes. Maybe makes it easier to stop blaming herself for not spotting anything along the way.

 

[infinit]

I won’t go into details but they are very strict about handing in fire arms in the UK after a shift. If it turns out there was a lapse in protocol, the Met will have even more to answer for and senior heads will roll IMO

I agree. You'd need to have complete incompetence across multiple shifts for him to get away with that.

 

[Sainlondon]

Disappointing to see so many comments insisting his wife “must have known”. If you know your husband had the potential to rape and murder, you don’t sleep next to them at night and let them give your kids a bath!

Popular opinion tells women that ‘boys will be boys’ and to just accept an awful lot of deviant behaviour from the men in their lives. Oh, he stays up all night watching violent *advertiser censored*? It’s just a fantasy life! It’s healthy!
He goes out at all hours and comes home drunk or drugged? Stop being a nag, he’s entitled to his downtime with the boys!
He makes crude jokes or comments about women and

Disappointing to see so many comments insisting his wife “must have known”. If you know your husband had the potential to rape and murder, you don’t sleep next to them at night and let them give your kids a bath!

Popular opinion tells women that ‘boys will be boys’ and to just accept an awful lot of deviant behaviour from the men in their lives. Oh, he stays up all night watching violent *advertiser censored*? It’s just a fantasy life! It’s healthy!
He goes out at all hours and comes home drunk or drugged? Stop being a nag, he’s entitled to his downtime with the boys!
He makes crude jokes or comments about women and sex and checks out women in the street? He’s just a red blooded male! Stop being so jealous and possessive.

Don’t check your partner’s search history. Don’t snoop on their phone. Be a good, open-minded, trusting wife.

She trusted him. She followed all the good wife rules that we’re told at every turn, and now that it turns out he’s a criminal it’s somehow her fault for not spotting it sooner?

Presumably, he had colleagues and family members who spent just as much time around him day to day. If none of those saw anything amiss, why should we hold his poor wife to a completely different standard?

That’s what I mean … some women don’t know that sort of behavior isn’t normal until it goes wrong. I’m sure looking back you’d easily be able to point out the warning signs now in hindsight.

 

[Lola68]

Didn't her phone go off grid immediately after she spoke to the boyfriend? Which would have been a good five or ten minutes before she was seen on CCTV with WC? I can't imagine that she ran out of battery a short while before she met her killer. I would think that she switched the phone off after the call. Why? Not sure, as she still had a little way to go and her headphones suggest that she used her phone to listen to music. Perhaps she thought it wasn't safe to be on the phone or listening to music so put her phone away. TBH if I were in that situation, I would not have switched it off, just stowed it in a pocket or bag.

There is lots of speculation that he may have badged her/told her she was in danger, so she got into his car willingly. The only people that can confirm that are SE (who sadly can't) and WC, who refuses to say anything. If that was his gambit, then it would have bought him a bit of time to drive, before she thought something odd was going on. The fact is, that she got into his car within three minutes. The amount of traffic passing would suggest that him rendering her unconscious, on a red route, with his hazards on would be very risky.

Initially I thought maybe she’d turned her phone off to save battery - which I’ve done numerous times - especially if I’m in a busy area so save it for when it’s quieter. But I now think it was turned off/disabled when WC interacted with SE - either by him or instructed by him. He made mistakes but hi attack was planned over at least 3 days and the likelihood of his victim having a phone would have been top of mind IMO

 

[littleb40]

No it wouldn't have been - There wasn't a traffic camera that had sight of where they met - Although there was a few hundred m's up the road that he likely would have passed and then the one going out towards Kent that were of particularly of interest if I remember correctly.

I seem to remember reports at the time that the car with hazards/doors open was picked up on bus CCTV, which the public wouldn’t have access to

 

[Kelly C]

Definitely agree with the sentiment of all of this, although we do have to be careful about diagnosis-by-Internet and claiming credentials online in general.
His wife’s statement just sounded, to me, like a lay person desperately clutching at any possibly explanation for why her world was destroyed. Easier to blame a random label than the person, sometimes. Maybe makes it easier to stop blaming herself for not spotting anything along the way.

Totally agree. But it’s not the time for her to be scratching her head to explain his actions- even though she abhors them. I know she’s suffering but mentioning that label as a possible reason for his actions is extremely damaging to people with that diagnosis and is extremely uneducated and flippant of her to say

 

[infinit]

I seem to remember reports at the time that the car with hazards/doors open was picked up on bus CCTV, which the public wouldn’t have access to

Oh, yes it was confirmed in court about the bus footage. I believe who I was responding to was referencing the traffic cam images shared on here at the time.

 

[CriLondon]

Totally agree. But it’s not the time for her to be scratching her head to explain his actions- even though she abhors them. I know she’s suffering but mentioning that label as a possible reason for his actions is extremely damaging to people with that diagnosis and is extremely uneducated and flippant of her to say

In her defense , even though I agree with you ,desperation makes people very careless about what they say and the side consequences of their words , especially in such a highly emotionally charged scenario .

 

[infinit]

Totally agree. But it’s not the time for her to be scratching her head to explain his actions- even though she abhors them. I know she’s suffering but mentioning that label as a possible reason for his actions is extremely damaging to people with that diagnosis and is extremely uneducated and flippant of her to say

I don't blame her, I blame the DM for publishing it. She's a woman who has had her world flipped upside down and is attempting to find reasons where there are none and she's got the DM still knocking at her door months later. The editor has chosen to include these comments knowing full well the the implications of how it casts people with BP.

 

[Kelly C]

In her defense , even though I agree with you ,desperation makes people very careless about what they say and the side consequences of their words , especially in such a highly emotionally charged scenario .

Exactly! I feel for her, I really do, poor woman and her two children. But manic depression (even the label doesn’t exist anymore, it’s bipolar affective disorder) and saying that as a possible reason is just excessively clutching at straws. I get why she is doing / thinking that. It’s far better for her and many others if it can be explained away by a mental illness rather than him just being an utter monster. But…

He’s ‘bad’. Not ‘mad’. His actions over the years show the type of person he is and the personality he has.

May he get the longest sentence possible!

 

[infinit]

DBM

 

[arrogantcat]

A couple of updated/tweaked bits of info in the Daily Fail article now.

They repeatedly reference him being a “*advertiser censored* addict” (but give no evidence for this - I wonder if it’s not yet been made public?) and also added detail re: the changing of cars-

“The circumstances of what happened after he took Sarah will not be detailed until a hearing in September, but the court was told investigations have found she was transferred to Couzens' own car in Kent, which is where he may have carried out the rape.”

BBM

Wayne Couzens: Devoted father who hid dark desire to rape and kill | Daily Mail Online

 

[Stella123]

Sorry but the wife saying this could have been an episode of manic depression (known now as bipolar disorder) is extremely stigmatising and wrong.

I work in psychiatry and I can tell you that people with a psychosis / mood disorder do not do this (in this example)! He has no history of previous episodes. An elevated mood does not lead to premeditated murder. Yes it can make one do bizarre things but not that!

He is a narcissistic misogynistic psychopath through and through and has no psychosis or bipolar disorder. He may feign symptoms of mental ill health to play the “poor me” card but he clearly had full capacity and was in full control of his actions at the time, and beforehand.

just my (expert) opinion

Agree entirely. His wife, in the article, is probably trying to find an explanation in her own mind because the reality is too hard to accept. She mentions changes in behaviour and mood - ups and downs - and assumes this is some kind of bipolar illness - which is not a medical diagnosis whatsoever.

IMO what she was seeing was the effects of lying and guilt which makes people behave erratically also. I think any woman who has lived with a cheating man would recognise the signs. At the time you worry and think they’re going mad or depressed, but when you find out the truth it was just the effects of trying to keep a secret and lying. And guilt.

Edit - I might add the same in reverse - any man who has lived with a cheating woman too!

I still find it hard she didn’t suspect anything that night he got in at 1.30am (apparently). Not seen where it said that. How can the hire car be spotted at 1am at Tilmanstone and half an hour later him be back home. Ok so is probably only a half hour drive but he must have needed to shower.

Also if he was back at home half an hour after his car was spotted at Tilmanstone then he must have been at the wooded area near there before that - why didn’t the camera pick him up earlier. Maybe it did - maybe he had already raped and murdered her and just went off the A2 at Tilmanstone to hide the body till the next day.