GUILTY UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London, Clapham Common area, 3 Mar 2021 *Awaiting Sentencing*, #15

[Marantz4250b]

Considering his extensive planning ahead of time I think he did intend to kill her. He used the hire car so it would be harder to link him to the abduction, and purchased the plastic film probably hoping that no physical evidence would be found. Imo

Absolutely, it's something I mentioned a few posts back. Of course, we don't know for sure that he did use his warrant card, but if he did then that is very strongly suggestive of his motives being murderous from the outset, rather than merely sexual.

 

[Gemmie]

Like I said ...it is an unpopular opinion so I knew there would be someone who see's it like I am insulting ... No I have followed the case from the start and I am not insulting I am looking at All avenues ... we know what a ******* WC was NOW... but to most who knew him I've read he was a well spoken good mannered individual ...even his wife who lived with him day in day out for years did not know the real him.
So when you say well below Sarahs Level... Did you actually know Sarah?

<Snipped for focus & BBM>

Hmmm.... I respectfully disagree that most thought he was good mannered. At least some of the things I've read such as he had the nickname The Rapist (so he gave women the creeps), it was also mentioned that he was an oddball, and also that he'd only pull over women, never men, which didn't set too well with those that worked with him. And last but not least... he was reported to bosses for slapping a female cop’s bum. Those things don't make for a very good mannered person, at least in my book.

“It used to be the talk of the station that he would only pull over women and never any blokes. “It got to the point that people didn’t want to go on patrol with him.

The 3 clues that could've seen Wayne Couzens sacked before killing Sarah

I can't believe you're coming out with this insulting rubbish about it still being possible they 'may have had a fling together'. Apart from WC being totally below Sarah's level, there is no evidence whatsoever of this and the CPS have been at pains to stress that they did not know each other.

As for being below Sarah's level... First off, I agree. He likely was well below her level. BUT, people put on their best faces when they are trying to impress someone. I always tell those that fall hard for someone to give it time and wait for the infatuation period to end. Time needs to go by for true colors to come out. So, IF (and it's a huge unlikely IF if you ask me) they ever did go out, even once, he'd have been on his best behavior and she wouldn't have had a clue what a despicable person he was. I'll end by saying I do think it's extremely unlikely that she had anything to do with him in the past. I think it was a stranger abduction and she was his unlucky victim that night.

Lastly, both women and men have been known to have flings (and more) with those below their level so it does happen. I've done it myself so I can speak from experience and not just make generalizations that it happens. And I KNEW he was well below my level (it wasn't something that was hidden from me) and still did it, and rather enjoyed myself for the time I was with the person. Was it going to be a forever thing? Oh heck NO. I knew that going in. LOL Marriage and having kids was brought up and that's when I bowed out. But I had fun.

To recap... I do think it's extremely unlikely that she had anything to do with him in the past. I think it was a stranger abduction and she was his unlucky victim that night.

 

[Dotta]

But if he's presented himself as a police officer (which wasn't actually a lie) then I think that that might cause her to fail to realise just how much of a "mad man" he really was for some significant time.

Yes, but it was reported that he drove for 90 mins without stop, right?

 

[Flyakite]

I’d be interested to know if the car was a manual or automatic as it would make a difference if WC would be able to continually threaten her with a knife when driving (if she was in the front seat and not bound).

 

[Italia]

<Snipped for focus & BBM>

Hmmm.... I respectfully disagree that most thought he was good mannered. At least some of the things I've read such as he had the nickname The Rapist (so he gave women the creeps), it was also mentioned that he was an oddball, and also that he'd only pull over women, never men, which didn't set too well with those that worked with him. And last but not least... he was reported to bosses for slapping a female cop’s bum. Those things don't make for a very good mannered person, at least in my book.

“It used to be the talk of the station that he would only pull over women and never any blokes. “It got to the point that people didn’t want to go on patrol with him.

The 3 clues that could've seen Wayne Couzens sacked before killing Sarah



As for being below Sarah's level... First off, I agree. He likely was well below her level. BUT, people put on their best faces when they are trying to impress someone. I always tell those that fall hard for someone to give it time and wait for the infatuation period to end. Time needs to go by for true colors to come out. So, IF (and it's a huge unlikely IF if you ask me) they ever did go out, even once, he'd have been on his best behavior and she wouldn't have had a clue what a despicable person he was. I'll end by saying I do think it's extremely unlikely that she had anything to do with him in the past. I think it was a stranger abduction and she was his unlucky victim that night.

Lastly, both women and men have been known to have flings (and more) with those below their level so it does happen. I've done it myself so I can speak from experience and not just make generalizations that it happens. And I KNEW he was well below my level (it wasn't something that was hidden from me) and still did it, and rather enjoyed myself for the time I was with the person. Was it going to be a forever thing? Oh heck NO. I knew that going in. LOL Marriage and having kids was brought up and that's when I bowed out. But I had fun.

To recap... I do think it's extremely unlikely that she had anything to do with him in the past. I think it was a stranger abduction and she was his unlucky victim that night.

I read a report from the former receptionist at the garage who worked with him- she said he was polite and respectful etc …
Looks like he changed a lot after leaving the garage??
Wayne Couzens: the former Met officer who hid dark secrets behind family-man facade

 

[johnlair]

<Snipped for focus & BBM>

Hmmm.... I respectfully disagree that most thought he was good mannered. At least some of the things I've read such as he had the nickname The Rapist (so he gave women the creeps), it was also mentioned that he was an oddball, and also that he'd only pull over women, never men, which didn't set too well with those that worked with him. And last but not least... he was reported to bosses for slapping a female cop’s bum. Those things don't make for a very good mannered person, at least in my book.

“It used to be the talk of the station that he would only pull over women and never any blokes. “It got to the point that people didn’t want to go on patrol with him.

The 3 clues that could've seen Wayne Couzens sacked before killing Sarah



As for being below Sarah's level... First off, I agree. He likely was well below her level. BUT, people put on their best faces when they are trying to impress someone. I always tell those that fall hard for someone to give it time and wait for the infatuation period to end. Time needs to go by for true colors to come out. So, IF (and it's a huge unlikely IF if you ask me) they ever did go out, even once, he'd have been on his best behavior and she wouldn't have had a clue what a despicable person he was. I'll end by saying I do think it's extremely unlikely that she had anything to do with him in the past. I think it was a stranger abduction and she was his unlucky victim that night.

Lastly, both women and men have been known to have flings (and more) with those below their level so it does happen. I've done it myself so I can speak from experience and not just make generalizations that it happens. And I KNEW he was well below my level (it wasn't something that was hidden from me) and still did it, and rather enjoyed myself for the time I was with the person. Was it going to be a forever thing? Oh heck NO. I knew that going in. LOL Marriage and having kids was brought up and that's when I bowed out. But I had fun.

To recap... I do think it's extremely unlikely that she had anything to do with him in the past. I think it was a stranger abduction and she was his unlucky victim that night.

Ok fair play... I agree with all you said.. I was just airing an unpopular opinion it's not what I think happened just something I have seen thrown about.. I think the Car in the bus cam being on the pavement and in the next shot both doors open could be a big clue now rereading...
If the car was on the pavement he blocked her path and she would have had to go around at which point only one set of doors is available if the drivers doors are next to a wall or something so she may have walked to get around the car with it's hazards on and he pushed her in ...in whatever way she could not have got out the other side... but the next cam showed the car with both doors open? maybe she got out who knows till we see the cams

 

[Marantz4250b]

Considering his extensive planning ahead of time I think he did intend to kill her. He used the hire car so it would be harder to link him to the abduction, and purchased the plastic film probably hoping that no physical evidence would be found. Imo

Absolutely, it's something I mentioned a few posts back. Of course, we don't know for sure that he did use his warrant card, but if he did then that is very strongly suggestive of his motives being murderous from the outset, rather than merely sexual.

Yes, Covid lockdown and random police checks were an ideal excuse.

Thoughts: Police officers aren't allowed to wear their uniform off-duty, and I don't think in this case he did either.

The car was a plain white car and he was probably in civvies, so he most likely pretended to be an undercover cop.
.....which I hope would have made Sarah suspicious. Anyone could have made a fake police ID card.

I wonder if she ran for it, towards the block of flats and he caught up with her? Police were searching the grounds there for several days.

MOO.

They aren't allowed to wear their uniform off duty (at least I don't think they are but not 100% on that), but he would have had access to police clothing. Then again, they aren't allowed to commit kidnap, rape and murder either. Most probably had baseball-type caps as that's what armed cops use and probably things like anti-stab vests and suchlike. Any police officer could make a pretty decent shout of being able to pretend to be on duty if they were that way inclined.

It's not without precedent, either; ok, he wasn't an actual cop but Anders Berivik in Norway had a police uniform and managed to direct people towards him so they were easier to shoot.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I agree! I know that I couldn’t physically overpower someone or even attempt too and I’ve read plenty of stories where people have tried/managed to reason with their attacker and get them talking in the hope of them sparing you to some extent.. especially if it’s someone like WC who on the surface looks like an average middle aged man (which of course he’s far from)

There is an excellent film on Netflix at present which is a true story of a 17 year-old who was abducted and raped multiple times by a guy who turned out to be a serial killer they'd been looking for for months (I forget his name). She was the only one he let go which was purely due to the way she dealt with him and his ego. The especially awful thing was that she learned how to placate him after having to do the same with her psychotic step-dad. The whole thing was utterly heart-breaking, quite honestly.

She's a cop specialising in violence against women and girls now, I believe. Called Believe me, I think.

 

[infinit]

Can't speak for most women, but - honest answer - if it was me? I would get into the car, sit quietly, and trust the person.

It's easy in hindsight to think that all or most women would think something is wrong with this, but without thinking about this case, if I was in that scenario, I know that the Warrant Card would hold a lot of weight, especially being presented with the idea that this officer is trying to protect me.

I'm a male and I was once having a cigarette in the early hours while on the phone on a quiet street. I noticed a BMW go past with what looked like 4 men all staring at me which was weird, it was not at all subtle. I hear the BMW continue and wheelspin as it does a 180 at the next side street. At which point I'm thinking "Oh boy." Stupidly I told the person I was on the phone to "I'll call you back" - No information on what I'd seen or what was happening - Which just goes to show you do dumb stuff in the moment.

Car brakes, men getting out right next to me. I remember my fists being clenched ready to start swinging. Something they perhaps get quite often because the male in the passenger seat had his badge showing and had said "Police" 3 times before the door was even fully open. But when I think back, I couldn't tell you what a legit police badge or warrant card looks like because I have no clue what they are meant to look like, I don't think I even read his name. They seemed pleasant and they had that way of dealing with people where it was clear they weren't inexperienced. Probably something that Wayne can also probably pull off. I wasn't asked to get in the car but if I had been I probably would - What are you going to do - Run away from the Police? It's a bold move.

Edit: I've just realised he could have used a search/empty your pockets as justification to get the phone potentially. He could turn it off as he walks around to the drivers side and she wouldn't see.

 

[Gemmie]

I would never get into the car. But thats me - always a rebel

I'd say "Been there, done that" but I've been there and didn't do that (get into the car).

 

[johnlair]

I'm a male and I was once having a cigarette in the early hours while on the phone on a quiet street. I noticed a BMW go past with what looked like 4 men all staring at me which was weird, it was not at all subtle. I hear the BMW continue and wheelspin as it does a 180 at the next side street. At which point I'm thinking "Oh boy." Stupidly I told the person I was on the phone to "I'll call you back" - No information on what I'd seen or what was happening - Which just goes to show you do dumb stuff in the moment.

Car brakes, men getting out right next to me. I remember my fists being clenched ready to start swinging. Something they perhaps get quite often because the male in the passenger seat had his badge showing and had said "Police" 3 times before the door was even fully open. But when I think back, I couldn't tell you what a legit police badge or warrant card looks like because I have no clue what they are meant to look like, I don't think I even read his name. They seemed pleasant and they had that way of dealing with people where it was clear they weren't inexperienced. Probably something that Wayne can also probably pull off. I wasn't asked to get in the car but if I had been I probably would - What are you going to do - Run away from the Police? It's a bold move.

Edit: I've just realised he could have used a search/empty your pockets as justification to get the phone potentially. He could turn it off as he walks around to the drivers side and she wouldn't see.

All very true..Her phone could have ran out of charge tho aswell as there was a bit of a gap between her phone going dead and the camera footage at 9.30 ...She may have just been unlucky or trying to save charge

Who knows? But I dont think it exists anymore ..
Pretty certain it went in the fire with her and the knife.. He could have took the SD card if she had one to look at her even more tho ..maybe that's what he was reported to have been thrown out the window..

I keep reading around he was in a relationship with a 14 year old girl when he was in his twenties .. does anyone know where this story came from

 

[Dotta]

I'd say "Been there, done that" but I've been there and didn't do that (get into the car).

It was hammered into my head by my mother when I was a girl:"Dear child, never ever get into an unknown car". Im a good daughter Mum is always right. Right?

 

[Gemmie]

Is the make, model and colour similar to a generic police car?

I’ve read similar. Sarah was a friend of mine, and my last whatsapp to her on 7th March is still undelivered

That's a really good question. If so, did he ask for a specific make, model and color, or just take whatever rental they gave him?

And I'm very sorry for your loss. I can't even imagine what you are going through. It must be very hard to view this thread. My hope is for Sarah, friends, and family, to get justice for what was done to her. She did not deserve this. No one does, actually.

 

[cestmoi]

I was offered, and accepted, a lift from two police officers in their car in London. They were not known to me. Still here to tell the tale...
My point is that it's not unusual that SE could be talked into the car. It's down to what a person is taught about police, about getting into cars of people we don't know, personality styles, the list goes on. I know the charge reads that she was taken by force (I hope I have that right) but I would be interested to know what the various interpretations of that particular charge could be. Would deception cover it, or must it be physical force that brought her into the car?

 

[Marantz4250b]

I was offered, and accepted, a lift from two police officers in their car in London. They were not known to me. Still here to tell the tale...
My point is that it's not unusual that SE could be talked into the car. It's down to what a person is taught about police, about getting into cars of people we don't know, personality styles, the list goes on. I know the charge reads that she was taken by force (I hope I have that right) but I would be interested to know what the various interpretations of that particular charge could be. Would deception cover it, or must it be physical force that brought her into the car?

The charge was Taken by force or fraud. That suggests that they have not yes established all the pertinent facts and why his sentencing is delayed several months.

 

[Sherlockhames]

I was offered, and accepted, a lift from two police officers in their car in London. They were not known to me. Still here to tell the tale...
My point is that it's not unusual that SE could be talked into the car. It's down to what a person is taught about police, about getting into cars of people we don't know, personality styles, the list goes on. I know the charge reads that she was taken by force (I hope I have that right) but I would be interested to know what the various interpretations of that particular charge could be. Would deception cover it, or must it be physical force that brought her into the car?

I believe the charge reads “by force or by fraud”. So the exact nature of how she ended up in the car is irrelevant. She wasn’t supposed to be there and had no reason to be there even if he talked her into it as a policeman. Hence the fraud bit. (Also I think this definitively points to them not knowing each other in any way. If he had known her, he might be trying to claim she went voluntarily. Clearly this was not his initial story. But he hasn’t changed it to dispute a kidnap charge. So it is safe to say this was completely random).

 

[annpats]

I'm a male and I noticed a BMW go past with what looked like 4 men all staring at me. Car brakes, men getting out right next to me. I remember my fists being clenched ready to start swinging...the male said "Police" 3 times before the door was even fully open...they seemed pleasant...

Don't leave us hanging! What happened? What did they want? Did they just question you about where you where going or had been? We're you in a town? Rural? Evening? Day?
It's good to know these things for future reference.

 

[annpats]

I read a report from the former receptionist at the garage who worked with him- she said he was polite and respectful etc …
Looks like he changed a lot after leaving the garage??

Well, the garage was a family business, and he obviously kept his inner evil well-hidden from all of his family......he wouldn't let them know what a deranged maniac he is. Which is even more worrying, because it means he can control it, on and off.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Don't leave us hanging! What happened? What did they want? Did they just question you about where you where going or had been? We're you in a town? Rural? Evening? Day?
It's good to know these things for future reference.

My betting is that they just had nothing particular on. Maybe he looked a bit like someone they knew was the local crim? Maybe it was unusual to see that type of person loitering in that area?

On a related note, and I'm conscious of not wanting to derail the thread here so will keep it brief. Back in the 90's and stretching back into the 1960's, my family had a reasonably large tobacco wholesaling business which went through several periods of being robbed or having attempts at its warehouse. During one of these periods my Uncle noticed an old Fiat (Miafiori, or something) parked across the road with four exceptionally unpleasant looking occupants essentially spilling out of it. We locked the doors and called the local control room be be greeted with a reply along the lines of oh, don't worry that's just some of our CID undercover guys keeping an eye on the place as we haven't seen X, Y or Z in a few days. or something to that effect.

 

[infinit]

Don't leave us hanging! What happened? What did they want? Did they just question you about where you where going or had been? We're you in a town? Rural? Evening? Day?
It's good to know these things for future reference.

Apparently there had been a spate of burglaries in the area and one of the tactics was to use a lookout which I apparently fit the description of. They just asked for some details which someone seemed to pass to someone via a radio and to pat me down. This was in Bromley funnily enough around the time Couzens would have worked there at about 1am.

They were good natured, I did inform the main one who speaking to me I'd been half a second from kicking his car door back into him because of how dodgy they all looked (this was non-marked car and non-uniformed offices) and when they left they apologised for disturbing my night.