SC - Paul Murdaugh, 22 and mom Margaret, 52, found shot to death, Islandton, 7 June 2021 #3

[sds71]

Circuit Judge Bentley Price asked SLED and the Colleton County Sheriff’s Office to justify the extensive redactions they applied to their public reports on the killings, which were only released after The Post and Courier filed a lawsuit. At a July 14 hearing on the blacked-out information, Edward Fenno, an attorney for the newspaper, argued that the agencies had been “unlawfully heavy-handed” in their approach...
In a brief to the court, Fenno countered that the law doesn’t let police withhold information based on hypothetical concerns. Police have to prove that disclosing information “ ‘would’ interfere” with their work or “ ‘would’ cause similar problems,” he wrote.
“The FOIA statute does not say ‘might’; it says ‘would,’ ” Fenno wrote.

At the July 14 hearing, Price said he would review the redactions and order the agencies to release more information if he concluded they had overstepped.

The agencies had previously resisted releasing even the heavily redacted version of their reports. SLED made them public only days after The Post and Courier sued the agencies for allegedly violating the state’s Freedom of Information Act.

SLED says it's still too early to release details on Murdaugh case, weeks after killings

 

[T rex]

Why are you so sure that AM had nothing to do with this?

You make a good point. His brothers are our only source for the ‘iron-clad’ alibi. We have no word from LE one way or the other. We know nothing of his timeline…or where PM or MM were respectively in the hours before the killings.

I’ve even thought this could possibly be a murder suicide…but that’s a bit much of a stretch….even for me.

I agree. You don't just let people rule themselves out. If we did that then nobody would ever be guilty of anything.

 

[DAMages]

Snip

Peeples Ohmer, who has known the family her whole life, said they had recently been living at the hunting preserve.

South Carolina Murdaugh family confident 'justice will be served' after double murder of mother, son: friend

South Carolina law requires police agencies to release any reports on crime they create within 14 days, and they must include details such as the nature and substance of the incident.

But this article doesn't identify her as a property manager, or say she has recently been fired. Is there MSM to support this information?

 

[Elley Mae]

But this article doesn't identify her as a property manager, or say she has recently been fired. Is there MSM to support this information?

She’s a resident and has known the M’s for years, she was/is saying that the M’s have been recently living at moselle and not the beach home.

 

[Elley Mae]

Circuit Judge Bentley Price asked SLED and the Colleton County Sheriff’s Office to justify the extensive redactions they applied to their public reports on the killings, which were only released after The Post and Courier filed a lawsuit. At a July 14 hearing on the blacked-out information, Edward Fenno, an attorney for the newspaper, argued that the agencies had been “unlawfully heavy-handed” in their approach...
In a brief to the court, Fenno countered that the law doesn’t let police withhold information based on hypothetical concerns. Police have to prove that disclosing information “ ‘would’ interfere” with their work or “ ‘would’ cause similar problems,” he wrote.
“The FOIA statute does not say ‘might’; it says ‘would,’ ” Fenno wrote.

At the July 14 hearing, Price said he would review the redactions and order the agencies to release more information if he concluded they had overstepped.

The agencies had previously resisted releasing even the heavily redacted version of their reports. SLED made them public only days after The Post and Courier sued the agencies for allegedly violating the state’s Freedom of Information Act.

SLED says it's still too early to release details on Murdaugh case, weeks after killings

This judge sees straight through this, heavy handed authorities in these shenanigans.

 

[Elley Mae]

I hate to think that some folks are not releasing pertinent info in id’ing someone looking for them themselves.

Jmo
...

Many moons ago my aunt was working a produce stand, raped and beat to a pulp. She survived. I had a few uncles that locked & loaded looking for that vehicle, never found.

 

[Watts Bar]

So if they were targeted…it’s kind of odd that this happened at the kennels. Wouldn’t someone planning this expect that the most likely place to find the family at that time of night…particularly in the rain…would be at the main house? The situation with the Father was an unplanned emergency, known 0nly in the family.

Unless they fed the dogs at that time each night….in which case the killers knew them and their routine very well.

But feeding the dogs at 9pm seems off to me too. These are very social people. That’s an odd time, an interruptive time, to set a feeding schedule for the dogs. …right when you’d usually could be out for the evening or entertaining.

I still have this feeling that PM and MM encountered some situation as they drove in that night that escalated spontaneously. The location of the killing really bothers me.

Just thinking… They are hunting dogs. In the fall, they will need to run long distances and do their “job”. Some people who own hunting dogs (our family did when I was growing up) exercise their dogs during the summer once the sun goes down. This keeps them in shape for fall without overheating heating them. And if RM was telling the truth, he was also out with his dogs around the same time. He never said he was feeding them, he said he was out with them.
Just thoughts and MOO.

 

[stmarysmead]

Just thinking… They are hunting dogs. In the fall, they will need to run long distances and do their “job”. Some people who own hunting dogs (our family did when I was growing up) exercise their dogs during the summer once the sun goes down. This keeps them in shape for fall without overheating heating them. And if RM was telling the truth, he was also out with his dogs around the same time. He never said he was feeding them, he said he was out with them.
Just thoughts and MOO.

Good point…and very helpful since you actually have had the experience. Thank you!

 

[T rex]

Another reason to believe either PM or MM was the target and no one else. Same as LE saying the public had nothing to worry about. My theory still stands that PM was targeted and some symbol/message left at the scene saying mission accomplished.

It's a real possibility that something could have been left to indicate why this had been done but if so it's also possible that it was intended to mislead, a red herring.

 

[Cryptic]

Sounds like an assumption is being made Moselle is the only property that would be managed. The M's owned a bunch of acreage/properties in and around Hampton/Colleton counties and the Moselle property was just one of them.

Good point. The caretaker / manager could have resided at the Moselle property, but been responsible for Moselle and several others.

Thus, more of a justification for a full time manager. Then factor in that as they are wealthy, the luxury of a full time manager does not need to make financial sense.

 

[Watts Bar]

Good point…and very helpful since you actually have had the experience. Thank you!

Thanks. I will also add that my hunch, from being raised in “the sticks”, is that the entrance by the kennels and the farm equipment storage was the entrance the family used. In the pictures their mailbox is there. And even though there is a more direct entrance to the house (maybe used for company), the family likely used the other entrance to do a cursory check on everything on their way in.

 

[lonetraveler]

Little?

Yes, kind of like 'being a little bit pregnant', KWIM?

 

[Cryptic]

Thanks. I will also add that my hunch, from being raised in “the sticks”, is that the entrance by the kennels and the farm equipment storage was the entrance the family used.

In the pictures their mailbox is there. And even though there is a more direct entrance to the house (maybe used for company), the family likely used the other entrance to do a cursory check on everything on their way in.

Wow, being suburban born and bred, I never realized that possibility and just presumed the main gate was the customary entrance. This strengthens the possibility that the assailant(s) had very personal knowledge of the victims:

- Apparently knew that the property was in active use at that time by the victims.

- Also knew which entrance they actually used (which to me, was not the presumed entrance).

- Might have known that the farm manager who lived by the kennels had recently been fired and would not be able to come to their aid.

Though it is possible that the assailant(s) just got "lucky" and noticed their car and followed them in through the back entrance, there seems to be an awful lot of direct "in the know".

 

[sunshineray]

Why would he have spent so much time protecting Paul just to kill him later ?

Going to check on his Mom after bringing his Dad to the hospital probably saved his life. If in fact that's what happened.

I'd like to know why was the family at the hunting lodge that night? Was the family living there? Was that a normal thing for them at that time of year? Or was that in itself an anomaly?

 

[T rex]

Just thinking… They are hunting dogs. In the fall, they will need to run long distances and do their “job”. Some people who own hunting dogs (our family did when I was growing up) exercise their dogs during the summer once the sun goes down. This keeps them in shape for fall without overheating heating them. And if RM was telling the truth, he was also out with his dogs around the same time. He never said he was feeding them, he said he was out with them.
Just thoughts and MOO.

Yes, you're right about all of this in my opinion. Just because hunting season is out doesn't mean you can't let your dogs run or tree one.
In fact it's kind of cruel if you don't. The dogs are bred for this specific purpose and it will drive them crazy if they don't get to, it'll break their spirit.

Thanks. I will also add that my hunch, from being raised in “the sticks”, is that the entrance by the kennels and the farm equipment storage was the entrance the family used. In the pictures their mailbox is there. And even though there is a more direct entrance to the house (maybe used for company), the family likely used the other entrance to do a cursory check on everything on their way in.

I was thinking the area of the kennels may just have to do with exit strategy.

 

[lonetraveler]

One night in 2017 I made one of the hardest decisions I've ever made. And that was in the midst of relatives and friends breathing down my neck. Without going into any great detail I was the only one with the legal right to go and retrieve my daughter from the jail.

In my town, when someone abuses alcohol and drinks nyquil in there own home, they take them by ambulance to the ER. Then from there they don't release them back home. They go straight to the county jail to dry out for one night.

She had been on a path that I could not turn her around from, no matter what I did. I made the decision that night not to bail her out, not to go and get her, not to retrieve her, but I made her stay there that night.

It scared her so bad, and to this day she tells me that was her turning point for sobering up. And she was in a cell completely alone away from other people.

So yes, I did remember that she was my daughter, and a very specific targeted way. And my daughter is alive today because I made that decision then.

I applaud your decision. I know how hard it was for you to do that.

 

[Cryptic]

Thanks. I will also add that my hunch, from being raised in “the sticks”....

The dogs are bred for this specific purpose and it will drive them crazy if they don't get to, it'll break their spirit.

I have little personal experience with hunting dogs. But....

A ranch foreman told us the "Catahoula curs" on a large ranch in east Texas were working dogs used for cattle and hunting. He then told my son and I that though they were not dangerous, it was best to stay away from them and ignore them if they approached.

Likewise, a relative of mine who hunts told family guest that his birding dogs (larger type breed) kept at a friend's farm outside of town were not the most friendly and that if children especially were going to say "hi", he needed to be there.

Yet, another man I know has a professionally trained larger bird dog that is an absolute teddy bear. Likewise, I knew a man with bred, but not trained bird dogs that were extremely friendly. (so hard wired that they would get alert if one pretended to be raising an imaginary shot gun).

So.... Are hunting dogs more likely to be of the unfriendly, or friendly sort?

Would they be prone to bark aggressively at, or even attack aggressive strangers? Or, are the passive ones more common? How likely could a stranger approach the kennels of hunting dogs with out setting them off?

 

[lonetraveler]

Not sure if this was posted yet, but here it is.

Attorneys: Law enforcement tried to protect Paul Murdaugh from blame in deadly Lowcountry boat crash

"The petition claims that certain evidence gathered at the scene of the boat crash is now missing. They want these five officers to be questioned about, "The failure to conduct an appropriate investigation, including the failure to administer field exercises to Paul Murdaugh, as well as other investigative irregularities of which Petitioner is informed and believes occurred which coincidentally resulted in the loss of evidence."

The petition also states that these five officers may have information as to a campaign to, "Cloud the investigatory issues involved in the 2019 boat crash and disseminate false information in the community with the intention of misleading law enforcement and prosecutors and the public into believing Cook should be arrested and charged as the boat operator."

This is a disgusting example of Quid Pro Quo. I wonder if they were paid off to make the evidence disappear. JMO

 

[T rex]

I have no personal experience with hunting dogs. But....

A ranch foreman once pointed out Catahoula "curs" on a large ranch in east Texas as working dogs used for cattle and hunting. He then told my son and I that though they were not dangerous, it was best to stay away from them and ignore them if they approached.

Likewise, a relative of mine who hunts told family guest that his birding dogs (larger type breed) were not the most friendly and that if children especially were going to say "hi", he needed to be there.

Yet, another man I know has a professionally trained larger bird dog that is an absolute teddy bear, even if he does not know you.

Likewise, I knew a man with bred, but not trained bird dogs that were extremely friendly and fun to play "fetch" with (so hard wired that they would get alert if one pretended to be raising an imaginary shot gun).

So.... Are hunting dogs more likely to be of the unfriendly, or friendly sort?

Would they be prone to bark aggressively at, or even attack aggressive strangers? Or, are the passive ones more common? How likely could a stranger approach the kennels of hunting dogs with out setting them off?

I wouldn't consider them to be friendly dogs like some other types and some of them can be ornery but I also wouldn't call them mean either. It depends a lot on their individual personality, some are friendly enough.
I don't think they would attack anyone in most cases. As far as barking ( or baying) goes they will bark non stop at just about anyone including their master. That is until they realize their about to go hunting then sometimes they'll shut up. Sometimes.

Edit: I just wanted to add that most of the above depends on whether or not the dog is running free or chained up or in a lot. Theres a big difference in the overall way the dog acts.
It also has to do with how much hunting they've been getting to do. The more restless they are the more they bark.
I don't know that much about bird dogs, just bloodhounds and beagles mostly.

 

[MoeInVA]

I applaud your decision. I know how hard it was for you to do that.

Same. I had an impossible bail decision a couple years ago. So hard.