GUILTY UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London, Clapham Common area, 3 Mar 2021 *Awaiting Sentencing*, #15

[Dotta]

His lawyer is actually the one who claimed WC is remorseful. The only words we're told that WC has said are "I deserve it". IMO there is a massive difference between being remorseful, and acknowledging the consequence of an action. He was a police officer. Actions are deemed right or wrong, and wrong actions incur a consequence. All WC has done is acknowledge he did a thing that is deemed wrong and thus he is being given a consequence. There's zero remorse in any words that we've been told he has said. I will kindly acknowledge there may be more that he has said and expressed which could show true remorse, but I see no remorse in the words we know he has said.

Well, his lawyer is doing his job I guess. Doing his best with what he's got.

 

[MsBetsy]

His lawyer is actually the one who claimed WC is remorseful. The only words we're told that WC has said are "I deserve it". IMO there is a massive difference between being remorseful, and acknowledging the consequence of an action. He was a police officer. Actions are deemed right or wrong, and wrong actions incur a consequence. All WC has done is acknowledge he did a thing that is deemed wrong and thus he is being given a consequence. There's zero remorse in any words that we've been told he has said. I will kindly acknowledge there may be more that he has said and expressed which could show true remorse, but I see no remorse in the words we know he has said.

I know his lawyer said he was remorseful. And yes, saying "I deserve it" would be interpreted as remorse. That was what his lawyer was trying to say. Like I said, it's not remorse, but self pity because he regrets being caught. If he was remorseful, he would have admitted his guilt instead of lying and deceiving police hoping they would believe his story. People who don't have an ability to empathize don't feel remorse. That's what makes them capable of murder in the first place.

He was able to fool everybody around him for a long time. Now everybody knows who he truly is. That is the one thing a narcissist hates most. If he wasn't caught he probably would have carried on as usual. He knows he has brought shame on his family. His children will always know him as a killer. I think he'd much prefer being known as the responsible police officer, the good husband and doting father, rather than the position he's in now. Otherwise he wouldn't be banging his head against the wall.

IMO

 

[Newthoughts]

I think the most likely explanation for the talk of DID is that the very lay terms 'split personality' or 'multiple personality' are being used by WC's wife and her family in the course of trying to come to terms with what he's done, as compared with the family man they thought they knew. They are engaged in a kind of grief process and are having to travel at warp speed from denial to acceptance, and also having to find ways to talk to his children about it all. The idea that he was two (or more) very separate people because of a psychiatric disorder that isn't his 'fault' must be a very attractive narrative for them right now, and who can blame them.

I think the lay language is your clue that this isn't coming from a psychiatrist, and the guilty plea makes it clear that no one is expecting anything to come out that mitigates his actions from a psychiatric perspective. If it's true that he's working with psychiatrists, then I think it's probably, as @Sherlockhames says, that they are trying to get him to accept what he did enough that he will share detailed information with investigators, probably in conjunction with trying to mitigate suicide risk.

JMO

[edited for clarity]

I agree that his poor wife must be coming to terms with a horrendous shock that her husband was not what he seemed. The DID would be a powerful protective measure - especially when trying to explain it to his kids. 'Daddy didn't know what he was doing' sounds way better than 'daddy is a murdering rapist'.

I'm not sure I buy any of his defences mental illness claims at all. I think he knew what he was doing he just wasn't particularly bright in the enacting of it

The fact he manufactured the Romanian gangster story. Which could be plausible if you didn't think too hard. He wasn't bright enough (or empathetic enough) to see that it wouldn't wash.

The fact he hired a car showing a degree of planning. Just not bright enough to anticipate bus cams without which that car would be difficult to link to Sarah and hence him.

The fact he held down a responsible job and had colleagues who were ok working with him despite the fact he'd be fully armed (tho the creepiness was noted it was not taken seriously and it's within the bounds of 'banter' that sadly women have put up with for decades). If I thought there was anything dodgy about a colleague I'm not sure I'd join them on an armed patrol

The attempts to destroy the body.

I think everything he's doing now - including pleading guilty - is to protect himself. He's a cop - he'll probably fare better in a secure mental health unit than a prison. Pleasing guilty will mean the less will come about what happened. I'm sure he appreciates the more horrific the details the greater the risks from other prisoners

He's just a murdering rapist'. He's followed the path of many other murdering rapists. Now he's protecting himself

 

[Newthoughts]

Maybe I missed some things along the way but ... how do you go from flashing in 2015 to the same thing in 2021 ? Nothing in between ?
Was he medically treated during this time ?

I think the answer lies in the way flashing is treated as a crime by overstretched police forces

Not really taken seriously at all (the man who murdered Libby Squire had been flashing for at least two years yet we now know a bit of police work locally could have apprehended him sooner). Difficult to prove. Combination of the two factors above mean it's probably just filed away rather than actively investigated. Cod of that probably under reported as well

 

[Newthoughts]

Regarding him being remorseful. I think that's standard defence speak for 'don't give me the maximum sentence'. My aunt's carer stole her life savings. She was remorseful in court. I did jury service. The defendant was remorseful. Every person I know that has done jury service - the defendants were remorseful. Every case I've read about - defendants were remorseful

 

[LucyRocket]

I'm following a murder trial live updates in a local paper. When I opened up the paper's homepage yesterday, the first story was about a man who had been arrested for masturbating in public. Within minutes the comments were coming up thick and fast all jokes, ridiculing, minimizing, tagging friends to pull their arm accusing them. No-one is taking these lewd, victimising crimes seriously IN SPITE of the evidence in the very high profile cases of LS and SE. Sorry if this is not relevant enough to be within TOS, but it's a serious and seriously unrecognized issue, it seems

IMOO

 

[tayaway]

I'm following a murder trial live updates in a local paper. When I opened up the paper's homepage yesterday, the first story was about a man who had been arrested for masturbating in public. Within minutes the comments were coming up thick and fast all jokes, ridiculing, minimizing, tagging friends to pull their arm accusing them. No-one is taking these lewd, victimising crimes seriously IN SPITE of the evidence in the very high profile cases of LS and SE. Sorry if this is not relevant enough to be within TOS, but it's a serious and seriously unrecognized issue, it seems

IMOO

...If he's doing that in public, what is he doing in private?

 

[Italia]

I agree that his poor wife must be coming to terms with a horrendous shock that her husband was not what he seemed. The DID would be a powerful protective measure - especially when trying to explain it to his kids. 'Daddy didn't know what he was doing' sounds way better than 'daddy is a murdering rapist'.

I'm not sure I buy any of his defences mental illness claims at all. I think he knew what he was doing he just wasn't particularly bright in the enacting of it

The fact he manufactured the Romanian gangster story. Which could be plausible if you didn't think too hard. He wasn't bright enough (or empathetic enough) to see that it wouldn't wash.

The fact he hired a car showing a degree of planning. Just not bright enough to anticipate bus cams without which that car would be difficult to link to Sarah and hence him.

The fact he held down a responsible job and had colleagues who were ok working with him despite the fact he'd be fully armed (tho the creepiness was noted it was not taken seriously and it's within the bounds of 'banter' that sadly women have put up with for decades). If I thought there was anything dodgy about a colleague I'm not sure I'd join them on an armed patrol

The attempts to destroy the body.

I think everything he's doing now - including pleading guilty - is to protect himself. He's a cop - he'll probably fare better in a secure mental health unit than a prison. Pleasing guilty will mean the less will come about what happened. I'm sure he appreciates the more horrific the details the greater the risks from other prisoners

He's just a murdering rapist'. He's followed the path of many other murdering rapists. Now he's protecting himself

he’s not offering a defence at all, we are assuming that it will go towards mitigating for sentencing , but no defence to murder charge (or other charges) has been offered. He pled guilty, end of.

 

[annpats]

Regarding him being remorseful. I think that's standard defence speak for 'don't give me the maximum sentence'.

Ha, yes, remorseful my foot!!
If he was anywhere near remorseful, he'd be helping the police a lot more by revealing all the details of what he did and how it happened, instead of just saying 'no comment' every time he is asked a question.

 

[annpats]

I'm following a murder trial live updates in a local paper. When I opened up the homepage yesterday, the first story was about a man who had been arrested for masturbating in public.

The very fact someone was even doing that in public speaks volumes about his sanity and psychological state.
People who did this were sent to lunatic asylums many years ago. Now, it's barely even considered a crime.

It is not right to be doing this in public and the only course of action must be hardline policing, arrests and psychiatric in-patient treatment.

 

[Gemmie]

Maybe I missed some things along the way but ... how do you go from flashing in 2015 to the same thing in 2021 ? Nothing in between ?
Was he medically treated during this time ?

Who said there was nothing in-between? I'm guessing things happened that weren't reported or known to be him. That's way too long of a stretch in my mind.

 

[Gemmie]

...If he's doing that in public, what is he doing in private?

In private like in hotels with sex workers that he claimed he needed to 'replace' one which is why he took Sarah. I think that's a crock but IF what he said was true, and he really did need to 'replace' one... that makes me think things got kinky, and went too far, and she suffered (almost) the same fate as Sarah (being killed). The worker might be one that doesn't have any family around to be concerned about her, so was not reported as missing. Longshot but still a possibility in my mind.

 

[Cherwell]

Ha, yes, remorseful my foot!!
If he was anywhere near remorseful, he'd be helping the police a lot more by revealing all the details of what he did and how it happened, instead of just saying 'no comment' every time he is asked a question.

He might be talking now. We don't know.

 

[annpats]

In private like in hotels with sex workers that he claimed he needed to 'replace' one which is why he took Sarah. I think that's a crock but IF what he said was true, and he really did need to 'replace' one... that makes me think things got kinky, and went too far, and she suffered (almost) the same fate as Sarah (being killed). The worker might be one that doesn't have any family around to be concerned about her, so was not reported as missing. Longshot but still a possibility in my mind.

@tayaway's 'what's he doing in private' comment was regarding a case of a man masturbating in public, not Wayne Couzens

 

[Gemmie]

@tayaway's 'what's he doing in private' comment was regarding a case of a man masturbating in public, not Wayne Couzens

Still, I think it fits here with my response to that post. What was WC doing in private if he'd expose himself in public?

 

[Dotta]

instead of just saying 'no comment' every time he is asked a question.

"No comment - ask my other personality Your Honour. How would I know what he was up to?"

 

[CriLondon]

Who said there was nothing in-between? I'm guessing things happened that weren't reported or known to be him. That's way too long of a stretch in my mind.

My post kind of implied I don't believe there wasn't anything in between .
And even if not , why so ?

 

[Newthoughts]

he’s not offering a defence at all, we are assuming that it will go towards mitigating for sentencing , but no defence to murder charge (or other charges) has been offered. He pled guilty, end of.

Sorry I meant his defences as in his defence team. Missed the apostrophe that would have made that clear. know he's not offering an actual defence.

 

[Gemmie]

My post kind of implied I don't believe there wasn't anything in between .
And even if not , why so ?

If not, my guess is that things happened that weren't reported or known to be him. That makes it appear that nothing happened in that ~6 yr window.

 

[CriLondon]

If not, my guess is that things happened that weren't reported or known to be him. That makes it appear that nothing happened in that ~6 yr window.

And that's certainly the most probable explanation . I was just wondering out loud if there is more to it . In a sense of private medical help and undisclosing of a condition he was being treated for , privately .