SC - Paul Murdaugh, 22 and mom Margaret, 52, found shot to death, Islandton, 7 June 2021 #3

[LetsSolvIt]

Out of all the ideas that have been tossed out about the perp(s) and motives, this one makes the most sense. Some one had mentioned two males who are unrelated to the Murdaugh family, that were alleged to have been at/participated in the SS tragedy. That would explain two different guns used during the murders. And tie up the on line threats to Paul. Murdaughs never pursued the threats bc that meant Paul and Buster would be implicated in SS death. But if it came down to Paul being guilty in Mallory’s death, and going to jail, Maggie and Paul would throw the other two males under the bus. The deal would cover Buster and Paul, and hang the other two males. It was getting a little too close for comfort, so the two males took it upon themselves the get rid of the problem: Paul and Maggie, both. And that my friends is what I have deduced.
ETA: grammar

This makes a lot of sense and you could be correct. But if it turns out to be true, how in the world would those two schmoes think they would get away with it?

 

[LetsSolvIt]

Out of all the ideas that have been tossed out about the perp(s) and motives, this one makes the most sense. Some one had mentioned two males who are unrelated to the Murdaugh family, that were alleged to have been at/participated in the SS tragedy. That would explain two different guns used during the murders. And tie up the on line threats to Paul. Murdaughs never pursued the threats bc that meant Paul and Buster would be implicated in SS death. But if it came down to Paul being guilty in Mallory’s death, and going to jail, Maggie and Paul would throw the other two males under the bus. The deal would cover Buster and Paul, and hang the other two males. It was getting a little too close for comfort, so the two males took it upon themselves the get rid of the problem: Paul and Maggie, both. And that, my friends, is what I have deduced.
ETA: grammar

Are you thinking MM knew about PM & RM’s potential involvement with SS murder but father AM didn't? Otherwise they might have all been the target? But as it turned out AM wasn't home when perps came a’ calling.

 

[sunshineray]

Murdaugh’s did not want to expose the truth of the matter made the basis of the threats. Whatever it was, it could have been used for blackmail but the person chose to threaten PM instead. Money was not the goal. Sounds personal to me.

Possibly...it could also be all spin...AJMO and haven't made up my mind.

It does strike me as odd that JM, in that GMA interview would take the blame, for not taking the threats seriously, on his own shoulders. Saying [paraphrasing], "I guess I was mistaken".

Is JM not the youngest brother and the brother who did not become a lawyer? If anything, AM as PM's father and attorney or RM as an attorney would have been the ones to deal with the social media threats, not JM who sells machinery. Again AJMO

 

[pizzaman12]

Throw away email addresses will still show an IP address. So they can be traced that way, even if at the local library. At least it would be a start.

Even a sub par VPN is decent for general trolling and threats.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

This makes a lot of sense and you could be correct. But if it turns out to be true, how in the world would those two schmoes think they would get away with it?

There is nothing to tie them to the crime scene. No cameras. No witnesses. No DNA, that we know of. Some spent casings. Shotgun casings are useless to prove which shotgun they came out of. The rifle? Probably tossed into the ocean by now.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Possibly...it could also be all spin...AJMO and haven't made up my mind.

It does strike me as odd that JM, in that GMA interview would take the blame, for not taking the threats seriously, on his own shoulders. Saying [paraphrasing], "I guess I was mistaken".

Is JM not the youngest brother and the brother who did not become a lawyer? If anything, AM as PM's father and attorney or RM as an attorney would have been the ones to deal with the social media threats, not JM who sells machinery. Again AJMO

JM might have been more approachable as opposed to the lawyer brothers. Paul and Buster might have found it easier to talk with him as opposed to the lawyers. He had posed with Buster on the 4th of July weekend picture on FB, for example.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Are you thinking MM knew about PM & RM’s potential involvement with SS murder but father AM didn't? Otherwise they might have all been the target? But as it turned out AM wasn't home when perps came a’ calling.

I was not thinking past my observations of Maggie and Paul. I was floored that it could be so simple. Shoot them to silence them before they could finalize a deal with LE. If there was no physical evidence to link the two to SS, but for Paul’s or Buster’s testimony, it would be a great move on their part. To answer your question, I don’t know. But I doubt Alec Murdaugh did not know that his sons were involved in SS death. But maybe Alec told his wife to stop covering for the boy and she did not listen. He may have heard the threats and/or been threatened himself. Alec thought he could legally or through connections beat the boating tragedy. Maggie was not so sure and did not want to risk Paul going to jail. It must have come out that Maggie was trying to keep Paul out of jail, by turning informant. The two SS males did not want to take the chance so they offed Maggie and Paul. Alec might have missed the party bc he was late. But he gets it now. I doubt he will ever pursue the shooters. His reward is a smoke screen. They know that he knows who they are. He knows that they know he knows who they are. That’s why the reward is to be administered through the law firm and not LE. And has such a short window. He’s making sure they get away with the murders.

 

[Elley Mae]

Investigators struggled to extract information from members of the small, rural community, who had grown up under the watchful eye of the Murdaughs.

Details in newly released case file suggest connection between unsolved 2015 homicide and Murdaugh family | WCBD News 2

Watchful eye of the Murdaughs??

Fearful of prosecutors not the police??

 

[Cryptic]

There is nothing to tie them to the crime scene. No cameras. No witnesses. No DNA, that we know of. Some spent casings. Shotgun casings are useless to prove which shotgun they came out of. The rifle? Probably tossed into the ocean by now.

Though shotgun 'shot' cannot be traced to a particular shotgun, I believe shells can be via unique firing pin indentations at the microscopic level (providing that shells were found in the area).

A defense attorney could counter with an argument that such possible evidence only proves that a shell fired by that shotgun at some time was found in the area- it does not prove that the shotgun was used to murder the victim.

As to whether a jury would buy that argument would be another matter.

 

[Shadow@light]

“We didn’t know who did it but we just heard that Buster did it,” said one man to investigators. “Everybody knows who Buster is and like his family and all that so it’s kind of shocking,” he added.

Details in newly released case file suggest connection between unsolved 2015 homicide and Murdaugh family | WCBD News 2

Then, the Murdaugh name came up again — this time in connection to a different alleged suspect.

According to notes, investigators received a tip purporting to know the identity of Smith’s killer. When investigators spoke to the tipster, he confessed that “the reason he was passing this information on was because Randy Murdaugh [Buster’s uncle] told him to call.”

.....

Jmo
All the Murdaugh’s knew what happened.


I know when I was young when I went out to play I had to take younger brother with me, there were lot’s of kids then as I am sure there are now that had to take younger sibling along.
And what ever happened on these outdoor adventures little brother was there to witness, and sometimes told.

Elley Mae,
If this information is correct in our Opinons, this may explain PM drinking and behaviour problems.
I had wonder about this or Paul had witness the ruthlessness in the family he could not measure up.

I live in a Welfare home. I was taken away from my Grandparents move interstate place in a pretty horrible place( They stated on my file I placed there under the state welfare act of 1949, which did not exist in 2010 I recieved an apology and compersation) the treatment was shocking. Many teenage girls if they did not have a drink or drug problem afterwards did or even years later. They could not speak in what happen it took late 1980's,as who would believe them. Today, I know a support group where people in homes and orphanages from the 1950's onwards so many have recovered from heavy drinking problems and anti social behaviour leading to prison in their lives.
Maybe Paul in younger life could never match up to family reputation leading to problems. IMO

 

[Kittybunny]

If peeps like us can find articles sitting at home that tell a story about a family in a town of less then 3000? ppl what do the ppl in town know about the family that never hit the papers.

Jmo


You don’t know what you don’t know.

Very good point.

 

[Cryptic]

This makes a lot of sense and you could be correct. But if it turns out to be true, how in the world would those two schmoes think they would get away with it?

A certain number of criminals take Nike's "Just Do It" slogan to heart- in ways that Nike never intended. They then start to think about getting away with it after the crime is committed.

I agree that the possible motive of a deal for the SS case in exchange for immunity and other special considerations makes sense.

As a side note, such a deal would not even need to exist. Rather, the possible perpetrators would only need to perceive that it existed via hearing rumors etc.

Then factor in that that it was very clear that PM and supporting family members were actively seeking to avoid punishment for PM, and that the hard drinking PM could be prone to make badly thought out "off the cuff" remarks or grandiose statements and any rumors about a deal are going to be given a lot of life.

 

[TJW]

Possibly...it could also be all spin...AJMO and haven't made up my mind.

It does strike me as odd that JM, in that GMA interview would take the blame, for not taking the threats seriously, on his own shoulders. Saying [paraphrasing], "I guess I was mistaken".

Is JM not the youngest brother and the brother who did not become a lawyer? If anything, AM as PM's father and attorney or RM as an attorney would have been the ones to deal with the social media threats, not JM who sells machinery. Again AJMO

I thought the same thing about JM saying that!! He wasn’t the lawyer in the family. RM was the oldest son, future matriarch and a lawyer.

 

[zencompass]

We shall soon see the decision of the judge in this case. As we know, the judge is comparing the police reports to the heavily redacted ones, considering S.C. Code 30.4.40.(3).

Below is the email which Adam Whitsett (lawyer for S.L.E.D.) sent to Jay Bender, lawyer for the Post and Courier, filed as Exhibit 1.


https://publicindex.sccourts.org/Co...531216656119102436549561161111006810111411899

Excerpt:


13. To the extent paragraph twenty (20) is a paraphrase of S.C. Code Ann. § 30-4-40 and a conclusion of law, no response is required. However, SLED would deny paragraph 20 insofar as it does not provide the complete language of S.C. Code Ann. § 30-4-40 and purports to limit the same. S.C. Code Ann. § 30-4-40 actually provides the following specific FOIA exemption:

(3) Records, video or audio recordings, or other information compiled for law enforcement purposes, but only to the extent that the production of such law enforcement records or information:

(A) would interfere with a prospective law enforcement proceeding;

(B) would deprive a person of a right to a fair trial or an impartial adjudication;

(C) would constitute an unreasonable invasion of personal privacy;

(D) would disclose the identity of a confidential source, including a state, local, or foreign agency or authority or any private institution which furnished information on a confidential basis, and, in the case of a record or information compiled by criminal law enforcement authority in the course of a criminal investigation, by an agency conducting a lawful security intelligence investigation, or information furnished by a confidential source;

(E) would disclose current techniques and procedures for law enforcement investigations or prosecutions, or would disclose current guidelines for law enforcement investigations or prosecutions if such disclosure would risk circumvention of the law;

(F) would endanger the life or physical safety of any individual;

(G) would disclose any contents of intercepted wire, oral, or electronic communications not otherwise disclosed during a trial.

Exhibit One: Adam Whitsett Email to Jay Bender:

https://publicindex.sccourts.org/Co...008010411810066721195743976910910156525712052

 

[zencompass]

Excerpt from attorney for Post and Courier, Jay Bender's , email: (We have focused on this concern in this thread:
"It is anomalous that law enforcement would say there is no threat to the public, but provide no information to support that contention."


Below is the email from attorney Jay Bender, to which Adam Whitsett responded (and included in his Exhibit one):

https://publicindex.sccourts.org/Co...008010411810066721195743976910910156525712052


From: Bender, Jay Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 3:21 PM

To: 'awhittsett@sled.sc.gov'
Cc: Pugh, Mitch (mpugh@postandcourier.com)

Subject: Access to records described in sec. 30-4-50(A)(8)

Good afternoon, Adam. I hope all is well with you.

As you know the records described in section 30- 4-50(A)(8), (reports which disclose the nature, substance, and location of any crime or alleged crime reported as having been committed) for at least the fourteen-day period before the current day are ELECTRONICALLY FILED - 2021 Jul 19 1:47 PM - COLLETON - COMMON PLEAS - CASE#2021CP1500368 to be made available for inspection and copying without the necessity of a written request when the person making the request appears in person during the hours of operation of the public body.

Section 30-4-30(D)(2). The Colleton County Sheriff’s office says that all such reports relating to the Murdaugh case have been turned over to SLED, and that no records have been retained in the Colleton County Sheriff’s office.

Notwithstanding the absurdity of that position, a reporter from The Post & Courier went to SLED today to make an in person request for records, but was denied access to the building to make the request.

I would appreciate your intervention to bring SLED into compliance with the law by allowing in-person requests for these reports. In two sections, 30-4-40(b) and 30-4-30(D)(2) the General Assembly has directed that information not exempt from disclosure must be segregated from that which may be withheld, and the non-exempt record made available for public inspection and copying.

The Colleton County Sheriff’s response to requests are that the records are exempt from disclosure because the matter is under investigation. Of course, there is no such exemption, and, as the Supreme Court of South Carolina held in Newberry Pub. Co., Inc. v. Newberry County Comm’n on Alcohol and Drug Abuse, 308 S.C. 352, 417 S.E.2d 870 (1992), there are no blanket exemptions for law enforcement records.

It is anomalous that law enforcement would say there is no threat to the public, but provide no information to support that contention.

Any assistance you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

Jay

Jay Bender
jbender@brblegal.com

 

[zencompass]

Re: Court docket for the Post and Courier's Common Pleas case

The link is below:

Plase note that halfway up the page you will see an "Actions" button. When you select "Actions", it will lead you to a page with all of the court filings to date.

Just click on the boxes on the right hand side of each line (when you are in Actions) to read all of the documents filed with the Court.

Here is the link for the Court docket for the Post and Courier's Common Pleas case:

https://publicindex.sccourts.org/Co...118077795565657889995547531008670796671817385

 

[moonriverfarm]

@Shadow@light



I have had this thought that PM was a witness. And the drinking began.

A witness to what?

 

[TJW]

Possibly...it could also be all spin...AJMO and haven't made up my mind.

It does strike me as odd that JM, in that GMA interview would take the blame, for not taking the threats seriously, on his own shoulders. Saying [paraphrasing], "I guess I was mistaken".

Is JM not the youngest brother and the brother who did not become a lawyer? If anything, AM as PM's father and attorney or RM as an attorney would have been the ones to deal with the social media threats, not JM who sells machinery. Again AJMO

They reopened the SS case so they could use it for a reason. The M’s aren’t going to let anything out. Spin Spin Spin. I think they will let these murders go unsolved to keep their secrets from getting out. Including their SS secrets.

 

[LetsSolvIt]

I was not thinking past my observations of Maggie and Paul. I was floored that it could be so simple. Shoot them to silence them before they could finalize a deal with LE. If there was no physical evidence to link the two to SS, but for Paul’s or Buster’s testimony, it would be a great move on their part. To answer your question, I don’t know. But I doubt Alec Murdaugh did not know that his sons were involved in SS death. But maybe Alec told his wife to stop covering for the boy and she did not listen. He may have heard the threats and/or been threatened himself. Alec thought he could legally or through connections beat the boating tragedy. Maggie was not so sure and did not want to risk Paul going to jail. It must have come out that Maggie was trying to keep Paul out of jail, by turning informant. The two SS males did not want to take the chance so they offed Maggie and Paul. Alec might have missed the party bc he was late. But he gets it now. I doubt he will ever pursue the shooters. His reward is a smoke screen. They know that he knows who they are. He knows that they know he knows who they are. That’s why the reward is to be administered through the law firm and not LE. And has such a short window. He’s making sure they get away with the murders.

OM gosh! This makes so much sense! The son using his mother’s credit card to drink is symbolic, isn't it? Enabling.

While I don't want AM gunned down, too, We don't know what evidence there is. LE may put this together and in your scenario, that makes for survivor vulnerability unless guilty are jailed.

Just fyi — you probably already know this — shotguns and rifles use different ammunition. The spent shells would be from the shotgun — they are plastic cylinders with a brass base to receive the firing pin. The shot (pellets) ride and are dispersed from the cylinder once it leaves the muzzle. The spent shells are ejected from shotgun after firing. So their location could give some indication of where the shooter was standing.

Riffles use bullets and each gun creates an unique pattern (“riffling”) on the bullet traveling through the muzzle. Bullets found would either have missed the target, passed through the target, or been located within the body during post mortem.

In both cases, I think the mark on the ammunition base can often be matched to the firing pin pattern for a weapon. And of course if the subject weapons were left at the scene none of this matters unless they can find a print or DNA match.

My hope is that the culprits weren't sophisticated enough to cover all their tracks and some solid evidence will be found.

JMO. I am not an expert or authority.

 

[LetsSolvIt]

I was not thinking past my observations of Maggie and Paul. I was floored that it could be so simple. Shoot them to silence them before they could finalize a deal with LE. If there was no physical evidence to link the two to SS, but for Paul’s or Buster’s testimony, it would be a great move on their part. To answer your question, I don’t know. But I doubt Alec Murdaugh did not know that his sons were involved in SS death. But maybe Alec told his wife to stop covering for the boy and she did not listen. He may have heard the threats and/or been threatened himself. Alec thought he could legally or through connections beat the boating tragedy. Maggie was not so sure and did not want to risk Paul going to jail. It must have come out that Maggie was trying to keep Paul out of jail, by turning informant. The two SS males did not want to take the chance so they offed Maggie and Paul. Alec might have missed the party bc he was late. But he gets it now. I doubt he will ever pursue the shooters. His reward is a smoke screen. They know that he knows who they are. He knows that they know he knows who they are. That’s why the reward is to be administered through the law firm and not LE. And has such a short window. He’s making sure they get away with the murders.

OM gosh! This makes so much sense! The son using his mother’s credit card to drink is symbolic, isn't it? Enabling.

While I don't want AM gunned down, too, We don't know what evidence there is. LE may put this together and in your scenario, that makes for survivor vulnerability unless guilty are jailed.

Just fyi — you probably already know this — shotguns and rifles use different ammunition. The spent shells would be from the shotgun — they are plastic cylinders with a brass base to receive the firing pin. The shot (pellets) ride and are dispersed from the cylinder once it leaves the muzzle. The spent shells are ejected from shotgun after firing. So their location could give some indication of where the shooter was standing.

Riffles use bullets and each gun creates an unique pattern (“riffling”) on the bullet traveling through the muzzle. Bullets found would either have missed the target, passed through the target, or been located within the body during post mortem.

In both cases, I think the mark on the ammunition base can often be matched to the firing pin pattern for a weapon. But of course if the subject weapons were left at the scene none of this matters unless they can find a print or DNA match.

My hope is that the culprits weren't sophisticated enough to cover all their tracks and some solid evidence will be found.

JMO. I am not an expert or authority.