Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, tortured and murdered, Athens, 11 May 2021 #4 *ARREST*

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Here's the original article, from real.gr.
IMO he was the "product" of his upbringing. He couldnt manage his emotions. Was emotionally withdrawn and socially awkward. C was lively and confident. Their characters clashed and arguments followed. That was their miserable reality. They should have parted their ways.

They should have never gotten together, especially since he was 27 and she 14. Grooming a minor needs to be outlawed.
 
B calls it an "accidental" crime! Can we now expect that thousands of murderers all over the world will make their case for leniency because it was "accidental"? GGMS!
But they do and always have done! They always whine and feel "strong" only when confronted with defenceless women - B even stooped lower - he murdered his wife while she was sleeping! They are absolute losers!
 
According to the couple's 'counselor,' EM, B started 'working' on Sundays and C knew it was a lie, but didn't know where he was.

ta nea July 20

According to the information, from the very first date, Caroline waited for Babis to leave the room and then confessed to her that she wanted to take her child and leave the house.

He described to her an authoritarian man who, as he characteristically said, had her under his complete control.

In fact, two months later, in January, Caroline began telling her mental health counselor that she had some doubts about the pilot's life. That is, he told her that suddenly he started leaving for work even on Sundays, while he knew that he was not working on Sundays and he wondered where he could go.

Όπως αναφέρουν οι πληροφορίες, από το πρώτο κι΄όλας ραντεβού η Καρολάιν περίμενε να βγει ο Μπάμπης από το δωμάτιο και στη συνέχεια της εκμυστηρεύτηκε πως ήθελε να πάρει το παιδί της και να φύγει από το σπίτι.

Της περιέγραψε έναν άνθρωπο αυταρχικό, ο οποίος -όπως είπε χαρακτηριστικά- την είχε κάτω από τον απόλυτο έλεγχό του.

Μάλιστα, δύο μήνες αργότερα, προς τον Ιανουάριο, η Καρολάιν άρχισε να λέει στην σύμβουλο ψυχικής υγείας ότι είχε κάποιες αμφιβολίες για τη ζωή του πιλότου. Δηλαδή της είπε ότι ξαφνικά εκείνος άρχισε να φεύγει για δουλειά ακόμα και τις Κυριακές, ενώ γνώριζε ότι δεν εργαζόταν τις Κυριακές και αναρωτιόταν που μπορεί να πήγαινε.
 
The killing of Caroline Crouch exposed how the public will stand by violent men over victims
B calls it an "accidental" crime! Can we now expect that thousands of murderers all over the world will make their case for leniency because it was "accidental"? GGMS!
But they do and always have done! They always whine and feel "strong" only when confronted with defenceless women - B even stooped lower - he murdered his wife while she was sleeping! They are absolute losers!
Guns and Roses wrote a song, "I used to love her but I had to kill her..something something..but I can still her complain".
A freaking song.
 
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According to the couple's 'counselor,' EM, B started 'working' on Sundays and C knew it was a lie, but didn't know where he was.

ta nea July 20

According to the information, from the very first date, Caroline waited for Babis to leave the room and then confessed to her that she wanted to take her child and leave the house.

He described to her an authoritarian man who, as he characteristically said, had her under his complete control.

In fact, two months later, in January, Caroline began telling her mental health counselor that she had some doubts about the pilot's life. That is, he told her that suddenly he started leaving for work even on Sundays, while he knew that he was not working on Sundays and he wondered where he could go.

Όπως αναφέρουν οι πληροφορίες, από το πρώτο κι΄όλας ραντεβού η Καρολάιν περίμενε να βγει ο Μπάμπης από το δωμάτιο και στη συνέχεια της εκμυστηρεύτηκε πως ήθελε να πάρει το παιδί της και να φύγει από το σπίτι.

Της περιέγραψε έναν άνθρωπο αυταρχικό, ο οποίος -όπως είπε χαρακτηριστικά- την είχε κάτω από τον απόλυτο έλεγχό του.

Μάλιστα, δύο μήνες αργότερα, προς τον Ιανουάριο, η Καρολάιν άρχισε να λέει στην σύμβουλο ψυχικής υγείας ότι είχε κάποιες αμφιβολίες για τη ζωή του πιλότου. Δηλαδή της είπε ότι ξαφνικά εκείνος άρχισε να φεύγει για δουλειά ακόμα και τις Κυριακές, ενώ γνώριζε ότι δεν εργαζόταν τις Κυριακές και αναρωτιόταν που μπορεί να πήγαινε.

My guess is, if the flight logs from Superior Air are not suspicious, then B could have gone to the helicopter club where he taught people to fly on a voluntary basis and later could have flown somewhere else to do something illegal.

Why didn't C ask him where he was spending Sundays? He could have said he was going to Church at least!!!
 
My guess is, if the flight logs from Superior Air are not suspicious, then B could have gone to the helicopter club where he taught people to fly on a voluntary basis and later could have flown somewhere else to do something illegal.

Why didn't C ask him where he was spending Sundays? He could have said he was going to Church at least!!!
Ha ha I thought about Church too - midday Mass is very long, lasts nearly 2 hours! What about unexpected hobby? But seriously, he could fly people at the weekend - did some private flights. Flying seemed to be his passion. I dont think he was engaged into illegal activities. But who knows? It is so sad to hear what a disaster their marriage was. Zero meaningful communication.
 
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Amazing how the 'therapist' told such a different story in the beginning compared to now. Are we assuming that the police asked her to paint a fairy-tale picture to the press to create a false sense of security for B? If so, it feels unfair that she was criticised (including by me) for sharing some of the contents of CC's 'confidential' therapy sessions, if her revelations were being stage-managed by the police as part of their operation to catch the perp.
 
Amazing how the 'therapist' told such a different story in the beginning compared to now. Are we assuming that the police asked her to paint a fairy-tale picture to the press to create a false sense of security for B? If so, it feels unfair that she was criticised (including by me) for sharing some of the contents of CC's 'confidential' therapy sessions, if her revelations were being stage-managed by the police as part of their operation to catch the perp.
The whole background of this tragic case is so bizarre - but this lady therapist tops everything! I dont think Police ordered her anything - it was her idea when the media followed her. She just couldnt resist talking! Just MO.
 
The whole background of this tragic case is so bizarre - but this lady therapist tops everything! I dont think Police ordered her anything - it was her idea when the media followed her. She just couldnt resist talking! Just MO.
But it makes no sense that she has given such wildly conflicting versions.
 
But it makes no sense that she has given such wildly conflicting versions.
When pressed by the media she couldnt tell the truth obviously. She should have said "No comment". But - free advertising and promotion was too alluring. But did she help C as a therapist? Hardly. She could have contacted her with a good lawyer but didnt. C was murdered. And in the end the "therapist" was boycotted by true specialists and ruined her reputation as a result. A true psychologist knows that Silence is Golden. This is my opinion.
 
Amazing how the 'therapist' told such a different story in the beginning compared to now. Are we assuming that the police asked her to paint a fairy-tale picture to the press to create a false sense of security for B? If so, it feels unfair that she was criticised (including by me) for sharing some of the contents of CC's 'confidential' therapy sessions, if her revelations were being stage-managed by the police as part of their operation to catch the perp.

The whole background of this tragic case is so bizarre - but this lady therapist tops everything! I dont think Police ordered her anything - it was her idea when the media followed her. She just couldnt resist talking! Just MO.

But it makes no sense that she has given such wildly conflicting versions.

When pressed by the media she couldnt tell the truth obviously. She should have said "No comment". But - free advertising and promotion was too alluring. But did she help C as a therapist? Hardly. She could have contacted her with a good lawyer but didnt. C was murdered. And in the end the "therapist" was boycotted by true specialists and ruined her reputation as a result. A true psychologist knows that Silence is Golden. This is my opinion.

There are 2 issues, ya? 1) EM's initial portrayal of them as a fairytale couple, while later noting C was scared of B, and 2) her 'psychologist' fraud. The 2nd is being investigated by LE. The first, she was instructed by LE to portray B & C as a loving couple to prevent B from thinking he was actually a suspect. From the first interview EM gave to LE, she stated that C wanted to leave B. He himself asked her to say positive things about him.

One element of EM's involvement that is worrisome is the fact that she did not go to the authorities about this couple. From the first session, C noted she was scared to death of B and wanted to get away. EM suggested C confide in C's mother. Is it just so common for women to be scared of their male partners that 'professionals' don't consider it a real threat, or is it legal policy not to break that confidentiality? Is there a point to 'what ifs' since C is dead? What about EM's own fear of B? Why didn't she contact LE before C's murder?

MOO: Since EM wasn't actually a professional, she screwed up on multiple fronts with this client. Is she indirectly responsible for allowing C's murder? At least she cooperated with LE from the start, to keep B in the dark about LE investigating him as a suspect. Little consolation, since C is dead.
 
There are 2 issues, ya? 1) EM's initial portrayal of them as a fairytale couple, while later noting C was scared of B, and 2) her 'psychologist' fraud. The 2nd is being investigated by LE. The first, she was instructed by LE to portray B & C as a loving couple to prevent B from thinking he was actually a suspect. From the first interview EM gave to LE, she stated that C wanted to leave B. He himself asked her to say positive things about him.

One element of EM's involvement that is worrisome is the fact that she did not go to the authorities about this couple. From the first session, C noted she was scared to death of B and wanted to get away. EM suggested C confide in C's mother. Is it just so common for women to be scared of their male partners that 'professionals' don't consider it a real threat, or is it legal policy not to break that confidentiality? Is there a point to 'what ifs' since C is dead? What about EM's own fear of B? Why didn't she contact LE before C's murder?

MOO: Since EM wasn't actually a professional, she screwed up on multiple fronts with this client. Is she indirectly responsible for allowing C's murder? At least she cooperated with LE from the start, to keep B in the dark about LE investigating him as a suspect. Little consolation, since C is dead.
This person disgusts me. She ridiculed the very notion of therapy for the public. Talked publicly about her client whom she didnt help, by the way. She is a fraud! I doubt the Police told her to chat with the Press. "Instructed" might mean talking privately to B, not to every tabloid that knocked at her door! What a shame! I pity true therapists in Greece because this lady made a laughing stock out of them! I might be harsh but Im not going to justify fraudulent behaviour and breaching patient's confidentiality. It might scare people from seeking help in the future. Im not going to talk about this person any more, I stated my opinion clearly.
 
IMO EM acted in the role of Relationship Counsellor with C and B. She did not perform the role of a Psychologist. Often people become confused between the two. They require different training and qualifications.

I am not sure what the rules are in Greece but in the US it says: "What an individual tells his or her therapist is confidential; however, there are limitations to the confidentiality between a therapist and a client. Laws in all 50 states require a therapist to contact authorities if a patient is a danger to him/herself, to others, and/or if the therapist suspects that a known child is being abused.

When Must a Therapist File a Report? | Stop It Now

C was not threatening to commit suicide, harm others and Lydia was not being abused. A Counsellor cannot go to authorities to report that your client is in fear of her husband. The client has to do that themselves. If there was domestic violence, C could have phoned police. A Counsellor who is aware of NPD, would have been able to advise C to not warn B that she is leaving him, pack her bags without his knowledge, leave on a Sunday and go to a women's refuge in Athens and never tell him where she is.

I think EM played a crucial role in portraying C and B as a fairytale couple on behalf of police otherwise he could have fled the country.

ETA: I joined this case late so I was not privy to all the criticism of EM in the media so have had a more open mind about her.
 
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IMO EM acted in the role of Relationship Counsellor with C and B. She did not perform the role of a Psychologist. Often people become confused between the two. They require different training and qualifications.

I am not sure what the rules are in Greece but in the US it says: "What an individual tells his or her therapist is confidential; however, there are limitations to the confidentiality between a therapist and a client. Laws in all 50 states require a therapist to contact authorities if a patient is a danger to him/herself, to others, and/or if the therapist suspects that a known child is being abused.

When Must a Therapist File a Report? | Stop It Now

C was not threatening to commit suicide, harm others and Lydia was not being abused. A Counsellor cannot go to authorities to report that your client is in fear of her husband. The client has to do that themselves. If there was domestic violence, C could have phoned police. A Counsellor who is aware of NPD, would have been able to advise C to not warn B that she is leaving him, pack her bags without his knowledge, leave on a Sunday and go to a women's refuge in Athens and never tell him where she is.

I think EM played a crucial role in portraying C and B as a fairytale couple on behalf of police otherwise he could have fled the country.

ETA: I joined this case late so I was not privy to all the criticism of EM in the media so have had a more open mind about her.

People weren't confused about EM, she actually portrayed herself as a 'psychologist' until the professional Greek board confronted her and she changed it on her website.

If EM couldn't legally go to LE about C's fear of B, couldn't she have gone for herself? EM didn't feel safe around him.

As soon as Police got to know he was going to fly to Turkey (despite "glowing" comments from the "therapist", mind you) LE arrested him.

Turkey! I completely forgot all about that bit! Yeesh. And now B makes jokes about getting the prison 'pilot' job. In his mind, he's probably getting out soon and will go back to flying!
 
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