GUILTY UK - Bernadette Walker, 17, left parent's car, Peterborough, 21 July 2020 *Arrests* #5

[Bogyo13]

Perhaps they have a family Life 360 account and Bea could see the shared location. Just speculation.

What I find incredible, apart from the fact they were scheming together and lying to Bee, is that they even parked over the road from the police station when they had no intention of going inside!

Why did they do this? Maybe the answer is as simple as taking a photo to send Bee, but what on earth did it achieve? They still sent her to the grandparents telling her she was lying.

Was it supposed to show Bee was lying if she told anyone Sarah had threatened to kill her if she went to police? If Social Services investigated they could show a picture on a phone and hope they were believed with no police incident report?

It does show however that these two were already intent on perverting the course of justice, using their phone locations or CCTV to set up a false trail for a purpose we don't know. They are peas in a pod, a complete match for each other, no remorse, no regrets, I wouldn't even call it a sacrifice because there didn't appear to be a great loss or emotional upheaval involved. I can't get my head around people like this, so disconnected.

 

[silflay_hraka]

Sorry when I tried to quote it doesn’t seem to work as I thought... so I’ve c+pd here:

“It does show however that these two were already intent on perverting the course of justice, using their phone locations or CCTV to set up a false trail for a purpose we don't know. They are peas in a pod, a complete match for each other, no remorse, no regrets, I wouldn't even call it a sacrifice because there didn't appear to be a great loss or emotional upheaval involved. I can't get my head around people like this, so disconnected.” (Tortoise)

I hope there are hearts and minds on the jury who bring these kinds of thoughts to the table. I fear that there may be some jurers who will rely on a body being found to be sure beyond reasonable doubt of their guilt. IMO, ScW is guilty of these crimes and more (SA), if I was a jurer I’d like to say to those not sure of his and SaW’s guilt, what else explains their behaviour?

I have been reading the BW threads from the beginning, and never felt comfortable about their response to their missing daughter, (sibling responses seem more in line with true grief and confusion).

I was once a shy, introverted 17 year old with blue hair, and my heart breaks for BW and how those meant to love her the most did the most terrible thing IMO. As I head back to lurkertown, I want to say thank you to all for the websleuther insights, visits to court and desire to find her and give her justice. Hopefully insights I’ve read here are also in the jurers’ minds and the verdict BW deserves is read out soon in court.

 

[Tortoise]

Perhaps they have a family Life 360 account and Bea could see the shared location. Just speculation.

Oh, never heard of it, but that's not surprising with me.

I still don't get how it achieved anything, because she called her a liar and "message was sent by Sarah Walker, which said Bernadette had been taken to her grandparents, in the hope that ‘she’d own up to them" (source)

 

[SpursGyal]

Oh, never heard of it, but that's not surprising with me.

I still don't get how it achieved anything, because she called her a liar and "message was sent by Sarah Walker, which said Bernadette had been taken to her grandparents, in the hope that ‘she’d own up to them" (source)

I have a life360 group with some friends after an incident. I can see where they are any time I open the app,I can see what speed they are travelling, get notifications when their battery is low, and we can send SOS to each other should we need urgent help.

I think IF they was using 360, the data from it would have been raised in court.

 

[Tortoise]

I think if I was on the jury I'd want to take all of today and perhaps even longer, even if I was certain at the start of deliberations and there was a show of hands confirming we all thought the same. It just seems right to review everything thoroughly, test your own conviction, compare notes and reasons, discount explanations offered, before sending people to prison for years, and they haven't had the chance to discuss it yet whereas we've had 5 weeks of discussions.

Maybe it will be quicker but I think there's a lot to unpack in this case. The first thing being it's so unusual for parents to scheme like this.

 

[hellobear]

I have a life360 group with some friends after an incident. I can see where they are any time I open the app,I can see what speed they are travelling, get notifications when their battery is low, and we can send SOS to each other should we need urgent help.

I think IF they was using 360, the data from it would have been raised in court.

They could have shared their location with her via WhatsApp or iMessage as a one time thing. I can't see them having an app installed which constantly shares their location... too much deception going on for them to want to do that IMO

 

[hellobear]

I think if I was on the jury I'd want to take all of today and perhaps even longer, even if I was certain at the start of deliberations and there was a show of hands confirming we all thought the same. It just seems right to review everything thoroughly, test your own conviction, compare notes and reasons, discount explanations offered, before sending people to prison for years, and they haven't had the chance to discuss it yet whereas we've had 5 weeks of discussions.

Maybe it will be quicker but I think there's a lot to unpack in this case. The first thing being it's so unusual for parents to scheme like this.

I'm thinking the same.

I don't really know the rules the Jury have to abide by but I'm guessing they would have been able to take notes during court. I am not sure whether they are allowed to discuss it with each other until they are sent to deliberate?

I know they are usually asked not to read / take notice of social media posts during an active trial.

Would they be able to use the Internet at all, say to look at maps / aerial view of locations or are they to rely solely on documents provided in court?

Sorry, just pondering again.

 

[Tortoise]

I'm thinking the same.

I don't really know the rules the Jury have to abide by but I'm guessing they would have been able to take notes during court. I am not sure whether they are allowed to discuss it with each other until they are sent to deliberate?

I know they are usually asked not to read / take notice of social media posts during an active trial.

Would they be able to use the Internet at all, say to look at maps / aerial view of locations or are they to rely solely on documents provided in court?

Sorry, just pondering again.

Yes they take notes during the trial if they want to.
No they aren't allowed to discuss the trial at all until they start deliberating.
They aren't allowed to look up the case or do any independent research on things connected with the case or evidence.
No use of internet, no phones allowed in the deliberating room. Only what's given to them in the court bundles, maps, interview notes, transcripts etc.

 

[rls11]

I think if I was on the jury I'd want to take all of today and perhaps even longer, even if I was certain at the start of deliberations and there was a show of hands confirming we all thought the same. It just seems right to review everything thoroughly, test your own conviction, compare notes and reasons, discount explanations offered, before sending people to prison for years, and they haven't had the chance to discuss it yet whereas we've had 5 weeks of discussions.

Maybe it will be quicker but I think there's a lot to unpack in this case. The first thing being it's so unusual for parents to scheme like this.

I wish you and your timeline WERE on this jury, @Tortoise or at the very least that there are people on it who have paid as much attention and taken such care to understand the circumstances as you...

 

[Gooner666]

I'm thinking the same.

I don't really know the rules the Jury have to abide by but I'm guessing they would have been able to take notes during court. I am not sure whether they are allowed to discuss it with each other until they are sent to deliberate?

I know they are usually asked not to read / take notice of social media posts during an active trial.

Would they be able to use the Internet at all, say to look at maps / aerial view of locations or are they to rely solely on documents provided in court?

Sorry, just pondering again.

yes to taking notes and nope to asking for maps or internet access, only the evidence that was presented to them in the trial, if that included two maps MAP1 and MAP2 used in evidence by the CPS or defence during the trial then they can request only those two maps MAP1 & 2 (they would have copies of these already.

they cannot use anything else not presented during the trial and must make their decision based on the evidence no descussion until all the evidence is presented and deliberations

 

[Tortoise]

I wish you and your timeline WERE on this jury, @Tortoise or at the very least that there are people on it who have paid as much attention and taken such care to understand the circumstances as you...

Thanks. I guarantee there will be people on the jury who paid attention to every word, stammer, eye roll and glance, attitude and reluctance to answer, lie, pause and silence, distraction and tears, and irrational argument...we only have the circumstances of the case reported not the people in front of us. It's all very much in your face when you are in a jury box, with a witness in front of you. Jurors read the person as well as seeing the evidence. In my experience.

 

[hellobear]

Yes they take notes during the trial if they want to.
No they aren't allowed to discuss the trial at all until they start deliberating.
They aren't allowed to look up the case or do any independent research on things connected with the case or evidence.
No use of internet, no phones allowed in the deliberating room. Only what's given to them in the court bundles, maps, interview notes, transcripts etc.

yes to taking notes and nope to asking for maps or internet access, only the evidence that was presented to them in the trial, if that included two maps MAP1 and MAP2 used in evidence by the CPS or defence during the trial then they can request only those two maps MAP1 & 2 (they would have copies of these already.

they cannot use anything else not presented during the trial and must make their decision based on the evidence no descussion until all the evidence is presented and deliberations

Thank you both

Thanks also to @MIdge28 & @helenvic for reporting back to us, and especially with what the judge said summing up. I have much more faith than I would have done, those PT reports were abysmal.

 

[mspuurfect]

What I find incredible, apart from the fact they were scheming together and lying to Bee, is that they even parked over the road from the police station when they had no intention of going inside!

Why did they do this? Maybe the answer is as simple as taking a photo to send Bee, but what on earth did it achieve? They still sent her to the grandparents telling her she was lying.

Was it supposed to show Bee was lying if she told anyone Sarah had threatened to kill her if she went to police? If Social Services investigated they could show a picture on a phone and hope they were believed with no police incident report?

It does show however that these two were already intent on perverting the course of justice, using their phone locations or CCTV to set up a false trail for a purpose we don't know. They are peas in a pod, a complete match for each other, no remorse, no regrets, I wouldn't even call it a sacrifice because there didn't appear to be a great loss or emotional upheaval involved. I can't get my head around people like this, so disconnected.

I see it as SaW making a threat to B - ie 'do you see the trouble YOU are causing and how ScW now NEEDS to speak to the police because all because of YOU, how dare you put us in this position!

Who knows what goes on their seriously warped, evil minds though.

JUSTICE FOR B!!

 

[aeaea]

I have a life360 group with some friends after an incident. I can see where they are any time I open the app,I can see what speed they are travelling, get notifications when their battery is low, and we can send SOS to each other should we need urgent help.

I think IF they was using 360, the data from it would have been raised in court.

id guess Snapchat, seems SaW used a lot of social media and snap updates your location constantly for your contacts (just looking at mine now, one of my brothers is at the family home, the other is just about to arrive at a bus station in Brisbane)

 

[SaintMoore]

Yeah obviously, it's 'we will speak to them first'
And probably said something to B like
'The police said you'd have to undergo invasive exams on your body, and there's be no evidence anyway, and you'd have to be cross examine for 3 years of investigation'
Infact that explanation of an innocent teen reporting sexual abuse would have to go through is probably not be that far from the truth either

Afterall we know that whatever they told her the police said, regarding reporting abuse, B wrote in her diary that she would just pretend to be fine until she leaves home. (I. E not report it then)

I see it as SaW making a threat to B - ie 'do you see the trouble YOU are causing and how ScW now NEEDS to speak to the police because all because of YOU, how dare you put us in this position!

Who knows what goes on their seriously warped, evil minds though.

JUSTICE FOR B!!

 

[Sooty]

I see the fake visit to the police station as their efforts to undermine BW allegations, before they even get aired fully.
I believe it would have been a form of manipulation to say ‘look here - we’ve already told them you are lying, it’s on record - so when you go and make your statement they are going to already have been informed that you are a liar’.
It’s a deception to try and control. To instill some doubt and fear that she may not be believed if she takes the allegations outside the family. To show that they will fight the allegations and throw up smoke and mirrors to deflect the truth.
They are practiced in this and they work together.

 

[Homo Habilis]

If Scott is found guilty of murder would Helen's Law be strong enough incentive for him to give up the deposition site? Is it having an effect on other cases?

 

[dunkley]

Thank you both

Thanks also to @MIdge28 & @helenvic for reporting back to us, and especially with what the judge said summing up. I have much more faith than I would have done, those PT reports were abysmal.

I have been reading *ALL* the Libby Squire threads, from the day she first went missing, to trial. I am currently on Day Three. (LS was before I had discovered WS). There is a *GLARING* difference between the local reporting by the Hull newspaper, and this apology for 'journalism' from the PT.

 

[Tanzanite]

I have been reading *ALL* the Libby Squire threads, from the day she first went missing, to trial. I am currently on Day Three. (LS was before I had discovered WS). There is a *GLARING* difference between the local reporting by the Hull newspaper, and this apology for 'journalism' from the PT.

Yes. I could be projecting madly here, but the recent PT 'article' covering the trial had an air of petulance somehow - as though the journalist was deliberately paying an eye-rolling lip service to the whole thing and couldn't even be bothered to hide the fact.

 

[SpursGyal]

Cambridge Crown Court 1 T20207197
Sarah Walker
Scott Walker
Details: Trial (Part Heard) - Jury retire to consider verdict - 10:04
Trial (Part Heard) - Case adjourned until 10:08 - 10:07
Trial (Part Heard) - Jury retire to consider verdict - 10:15
Trial (Part Heard) - Jury retire to consider verdict - 10:36
Trial (Part Heard) - Resume - 13:49


Are they coming back?