SC - Paul Murdaugh, 22 and mom Margaret, 52, found shot to death, Islandton, 7 June 2021 #3

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I don't think this was a burglary gone wrong. They made sure that PM and MM were dead. That seemed to be they're mission and focus. JMO.

I agree with you, @clearskies1 . I think thieves would be sure to steal something, even if they were caught in the act and were forced to kill the property owners.

One in every 16 persons in SC owns a gun and I would say shotguns and rifles are fairly common. So I also agree with @Oakie that this was probably a hit but carried out by locals.
 
Yes they can be heard barking during the 911 call.

Then perhaps PM was killed and the dogs alerted MM and she was killed with the rifle when she went to investigate. The killer got rid of a potential witness and made the two person scenario viable. I am assuming M M was at the residence. IMO Just a thought off the top of my head.
 
I agree with you, @clearskies1 . I think thieves would be sure to steal something, even if they were caught in the act and were forced to kill the property owners.

One in every 16 persons in SC owns a gun and I would say shotguns and rifles are fairly common. So I also agree with @Oakie that this was probably a hit but carried out by locals.

Random gunfire in rural areas is no alarm either as I hear it all the time. Guns are as common as heat n humidity here.

Edit to add That after seeing the handle above my post, @Kudzuu is a common too, I fight it often.
 
Yes they can be heard barking during the 911 call.

Then perhaps PM was killed and the dogs alerted MM and she was killed with the rifle when she went to investigate. The killer got rid of a potential witness and made the two person scenario viable. I am assuming M M was at the residence. IMO Just a thought off the top of my head.
 
I agree with you, @clearskies1 . I think thieves would be sure to steal something, even if they were caught in the act and were forced to kill the property owners.

One in every 16 persons in SC owns a gun and I would say shotguns and rifles are fairly common. So I also agree with @Oakie that this was probably a hit but carried out by locals.
Very much agree with the local hit scenario.
 
Don't give up hope! It is very early in the case. It takes time to collect and process the crime scene evidence and the electronic data (EVI, cell phone(s), laptops, tablets, surveillance footage) and then it all has to be analyzed. Covid backlogs may cause additional delays in processing evidence. As @riolove77 (who is a Prosecutor) has told us when we have started to get restless and impatient on other cases: Prosecutors only get one bite of the apple.

It took a year for them to charge Barry Morphew with killing his wife Suzanne and roughly 8 months to charge Fotis Dulos in the disappearance of his wife Jennifer. Lots of discussion on those threads about how long it was taking, would there ever be an arrest, they must not have a case, etc.

I would love to be privy to lots more information in this case but I expect the investigators will remain tight lipped in order to maintain the integrity of the investigation.

JMO

Yes, but we knew, or at least strongly suspected those two as the killers. Here, we do not have a clue who to blame it on, and I don’t think LE does, either.
 
I just don’t see hitmen bringing a rifle and a shotgun to the job. This sounds more like a couple of local yahoos/hunters who were interrupted during a robbery of some sort or were confronted when trespassing. Second best guess is a couple of “business acquaintances” of PM who were unhappy with the outcome of their negotiation.

I love your “local yahoos” description. But seriously, what burglar would bring long guns to a B&E? I can see a short pistol but not a long weapon that would get in the way of grabbing, and running. Pistol in your pocket. However, local hunters might not own a pistol. But I doubt it. Most people I know start out with a small hand gun and add from there. :confused: But who knows…
 
I just don’t see hitmen bringing a rifle and a shotgun to the job. This sounds more like a couple of local yahoos/hunters who were interrupted during a robbery of some sort or were confronted when trespassing. Second best guess is a couple of “business acquaintances” of PM who were unhappy with the outcome of their negotiation.

Do hunters use combat weapons these days? Wasn't one of the weapons used a semi-automatic rifle? Isn't that a little too much weapon for a squirrel, rabbit or deer? I'm only basing my opinion on how my dad, uncles, grandfathers hunted.
 
I agree with you, @clearskies1 . I think thieves would be sure to steal something, even if they were caught in the act and were forced to kill the property owners.

One in every 16 persons in SC owns a gun and I would say shotguns and rifles are fairly common. So I also agree with @Oakie that this was probably a hit but carried out by locals.

I’ve considered it a hit but not carried out by “local yahoos/hunters.” I’ve always thought it is a hit but think there was only one shooter. If local, then only one shooter for sure who will never say anything about it. Two people from that area? No, someone will say something sooner or later. Or question “hey, what did you do with that shotgun your grandpa left you? I want to borrow it.” And then starts to put too many things together. It’s not like it’s a huge metropolitan city.
 
Do hunters use combat weapons these days? Wasn't one of the weapons used a semi-automatic rifle? Isn't that a little too much weapon for a squirrel, rabbit or deer? I'm only basing my opinion on how my dad, uncles, grandfathers hunted.

I don’t think it say what kind of auto. There are “assault” type rifles that aren’t for hunting but there are many auto rifles that are used hunting.
 
I don’t think it say what kind of auto. There are “assault” type rifles that aren’t for hunting but there are many auto rifles that are used hunting.

It gives me the feeling these people weren't there for hunting. I'm thinking about the idea others offered - that these were people who stole the guns from the Murdaughs. That, too would be unusual. It's not often you hear of burglars who arrive at a crime scene without a weapon.

I'm assuming South Carolina has no real restrictions on weapons, nor laws pertaining to them that they enforce. Does that rule out the possibility that the killers were prohibited from owning handguns for some reason? Were these weapons the killers were more comfortable using?

Shotguns are beneficial to the killer in that they're harder to trace using ballistics. It's more likely that LE was able to retrieve something from the semi-automatic gun that they can trace. Is that also complicated by the fact that LE in South Carolina probably doesn't keep those kinds of records?

IDK, I assume people down there think using ballistics to trace and classify bullets to individual weapons is some kind of violation of their rights. Apologies in advance for my inability to understand the culture.

Is there any hope that ballistics evidence can help catch the killers?
 
Yes, but we knew, or at least strongly suspected those two as the killers. Here, we do not have a clue who to blame it on, and I don’t think LE does, either.
And it still took what seemed like forever and a day for there to be an arrest.

We don't have any idea what SLED does or doesn't know and they are not obligated to tell us.
I don't know how long it takes to get cell phone records, EVI information, etc. but they still have to analyze it once they get it and follow whatever leads they have based on the evidence.

Just one bite of that apple...:)

JMO
 
I like that idea that PM may have taken up residence in the caretaker's college. Given the logistics discussed and mapped out that makes a lot sense. Very nice job on the graphics @LetsSolvIt!

After discussing a room where guns might be stored as well as all of the equipment used for maintaining the property, I started wondering about whether there was any sort of a surveillance system to monitor specific areas of the property that would contain items of value. The photo of the formal brick entry to the property has what looks to be a Brinks? Security Sign shaped like a shield on the lawn on the right side, in front of the brick, behind the sawhorse.

What we know about Murdaugh murders, investigations in SC | Hilton Head Island Packet

JMO
 
Does that rule out the possibility that the killers were prohibited from owning handguns for some reason? Were these weapons the killers were more comfortable using?
In most states, for purposes of legal gun ownership, a gun is a gun.

Thus, somebody banned from owning fire arms due to criminal convictions would be prohibited from owning any fire arm, whether hand gun, hunting rifle, AR15 clones etc.
 
@Betty P , guns of any fashion are very easy to obtain by anybody here. There are loopholes on private sales and many are bought and sold in gun show parking lots. We do have ballistics investigations and that sort of thing and they even punish the use of a firearm during a crime pretty heavy. It irks me that they do seem to want to treat incidents where kids get their hands on guns and do harm with cotton gloves tho. A local case to me proves that.
I wouldn’t discount the shotgun as a murder weapon choice either, it’s a very effective firearm and criminals know this better than most. It does suggest a personal motive to me but that’s just my opine.
 
Is there any hope that ballistics evidence can help catch the killers?

I would say... no.

Any weapon purchased through a licensed dealer is recorded- maybe not directly, but the gun and the purchaser are still recorded. Most weapons are purchased through a licensed dealer.

Weapons purchased from a private seller, "ghost guns", and some "always been in the family" type guns would not be recorded. These categories, though less common, are by no means unheard of either.

An older shotgun could be in a non recorded category. The fact that the owner has not already been traced could suggest that attempts to trace it have failed.

Though data bases of licensed gun purchases do exist, these data bases only record the purchaser, serial number and type of gun. They do not record ballistic characteristics. There are no data bases to compare sample ballistics to.

Ballistics, however, could narrow the search. I think that intact (key word) bullets can be used to identify which type of gun fired that bullet by the number and shape of the "twists". Say, a Remington AR15 clone.

But.... the trouble with a possible AR15 clone is that barrels and other parts are interchangeable, can be generic and can be used by many companies. Thus, all that might be able to be determined is that the bullet was fired by an AR15 clone with a barrel known to be used by companies "A", "G", "C", "F" and..... oh yes, also "K".
 
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SLED didn’t break rules with heavy redactions to Murdaugh murder documents, judge says

Circuit Judge Bentley Price wrote that the S.C. Law Enforcement Division blacked out much of Murdaugh crime scene reports released to the public “in good faith,” to protect the integrity of the investigation.

S.C. FOIA law allows for a number of exemptions to keep information private when police investigate a crime, to keep from releasing information that would impact the investigation or eventual prosecution of someone arrested. After reviewing the reports, Price said SLED met those exemptions.


Read more here: https://www.thestate.com/news/local/crime/article253083213.html#storylink=cpy



 
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