GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #63

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It is and a couple other things about KR's murder.

The one shot to the head suggests the W's were maybe thinking to frame KR? Did they kill him first then use his gun to kill the others? We know though that GR was killed with a multiple caliber via his Dad talking about it, (someone just recently posted that video), so using his gun doesn't really make sense unless GR was the random they weren't planning on being there and he messed up their plan of using just KR's gun?

We don't know everything about the CRSR and BW fight incident except it happened very close in timeline to the murders. Was BW alone or was GW4 with him when the fight occured? I think KR would have definitely been filled in as to what occured by his brother and cousin GR, even TR if the fight happened at BBL

I think KR would have been very on guard if certain W's showed up to his trailer. If GW4 was friendly to KR...maybe...his guard would be lowered enough to take advantage?

But then KR's dog is another aspect that doesn't fit with a surprise attack that early in the morning. He would have, I'm thinking, been inside in the wee hours and warned of anyone outside. Remember KR's best buddy BH, according to his mother (FB post I believe was posted with that info), went and honked for him to ride to work and there was no response. That was pretty early, 4:30-5:00 ish most likely because they had a long drive to go to the city for work. So KR had to have been killed earlier than that?

Maybe it was just GW4 going to kill KR? Just because your brother had fistcuffs with his father or his brother was harassing your neice for custody, you might not hold that against the other son who was pleasant to you?

Maybe the reason why KR2 couldn't find her Dad's gun was because LE had taken it as evidence? Dewine came back fairly quickly, IIRC, that KR was not a suicide. Maybe holding that gun helps prove that or some of the other murders?

It's possible the W's didn't plan on killing all the R's that night? Just some thoughts.

I can see a situation where GR and KR were not planned to be killed but something changed as things progressed. Those two were the least likely to be a problem with JW getting custody with the others out of the picture. We don’t know the original plan or what all changed as the night went on...
 
It would be interesting to know their base of operations just to appease my curiosity. I've always felt KR was last as the Ws made their way back to FWF on the back roads. If any of the remai g 3 decides to go to trial we will eventually know some of the logistics.

Jmo
Completely a guess, but I would not be surprised if home base was their old trailer on Bethel.

Did that trailer perish in a mysterious fire sometime after the murders?

JMO, MOO
 
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Does anyone think that any of the W's had the guts to kill someone while not backed up by the others?
Which one would have had the trust of the others to kill Kenny alone.
I think that whatever was done was done as a group because had the guts or the trust to go it alone.
MOO
 
Does anyone think that any of the W's had the guts to kill someone while not backed up by the others?
Which one would have had the trust of the others to kill Kenny alone.
I think that whatever was done was done as a group because had the guts or the trust to go it alone.
MOO

Maybe that was how they functioned - as a group. One for all and all for one, ...until Jake decided otherwise...
 
I believe you're right about not knowing which gun shot KR. I don't recall or have in my notes any information as to what caliber was used.

I base my conclusion of only three guns used for the murders based on this: At JW confession hearing , AC said JW gave them info on the weapons used and vehicles used. In the supplemental discovery 6/21/21, there are three guns and a knife listed and there are two vehicles listed. I am assuming that--since AC only listed three guns and two vehicles in that supplemental discovery document--those were the only guns and vehicles utilized. As for the guns, I back this up based on Agent Scheiderer's testimony at GW4 bond hearing 8/31/20. He stated three calibers of firearms--.22, .40 and .30 caliber.

Granted, there could have been a fourth gun that was the same caliber as one of the three specifically mentioned (.22, .40 or .30). But if that were the case, I think AC/Agent Scheiderer would have addressed that issue at the bond hearing and stated there were four weapons.

All JMO.

Link to confession hearing video. At 1:49:43 AC says some of the information provided by JW was new. "In addition to the information that Jake provided us, what he told us led us to discover some evidence that had yet to be recovered, specifically the weapons that were used in these offenses."

6/21/21 supplemental discovery:
Under DNA: knife from concrete 5/14/21
Under latent prints: knife from concrete /14/21
Under FWF: ATF Etrace 1911, Glock, SKS

Ford F-150 pictures
GMC Sierra pics

Yes he said those 3 calibers were associated with Crsr, DR,FR crime scenes but they never mentioned KR, what was found at his scene or any casings etc. The agent only spoke of those guns in regard to the 3 crime scenes what how it sounded to me.

Those are the guns on discovery but I was not sure if that meant they are the only ones used or the only ones they recovered. I sure wish I knew which caliber shot KR. I am not sure why they never mentioned KR at all in any regard.
 
Does anyone think that any of the W's had the guts to kill someone while not backed up by the others?
Which one would have had the trust of the others to kill Kenny alone.
I think that whatever was done was done as a group because had the guts or the trust to go it alone.
MOO

I do not think any one would have gone alone to any crime scene due to the risk of something going wrong.
 
Does anyone think that any of the W's had the guts to kill someone while not backed up by the others?
Which one would have had the trust of the others to kill Kenny alone.
I think that whatever was done was done as a group because had the guts or the trust to go it alone.
MOO
BBM, I don't think so. I think they were, at the very least, in pairs. IMO
 
Yes he said those 3 calibers were associated with Crsr, DR,FR crime scenes but they never mentioned KR, what was found at his scene or any casings etc. The agent only spoke of those guns in regard to the 3 crime scenes what how it sounded to me.

Those are the guns on discovery but I was not sure if that meant they are the only ones used or the only ones they recovered. I sure wish I knew which caliber shot KR. I am not sure why they never mentioned KR at all in any regard.
Yeah, knowing the caliber for KR would help clear some things up--maybe even shed some light as to what order he was killed in. My gut feeling is that CRSR's and FR's places were hit at the same time, since they were in such close proximity, but I could be wrong.

I totally agree that only rare, if any, mention of KR's details is weird. It could be something as simple as his place had the least amount of incriminating evidence, so they don't mention it much. There was only one victim at that scene, and that victim only had one bullet wound. Just a thought.
 
With regard to the number of guns used in the murders, I also found this in my notes from GW4's 8/31/20 bond hearing. Agent Scheiderer at one point said, "Three guns were used your honor, three. There were 3 guns." I don't have the time stamp handy, but I can search for it if anyone wants it.

But, as CO has pointed out, he doesn't specifically say "only" those three guns. So, yet again, we wait for more breadcrumbs of evidence to be made public. :( IMO
 
With regard to the number of guns used in the murders, I also found this in my notes from GW4's 8/31/20 bond hearing. Agent Scheiderer at one point said, "Three guns were used your honor, three. There were 3 guns." I don't have the time stamp handy, but I can search for it if anyone wants it.

But, as CO has pointed out, he doesn't specifically say "only" those three guns. So, yet again, we wait for more breadcrumbs of evidence to be made public. :( IMO

It probably is only those 3 guns for all 4 scenes. I thought they were only speaking/discussing the 3 crime scenes in the bond hearing so I have never been clear if it was only those 3 guns for all 4 scenes.
 
Yeah, knowing the caliber for KR would help clear some things up--maybe even shed some light as to what order he was killed in. My gut feeling is that CRSR's and FR's places were hit at the same time, since they were in such close proximity, but I could be wrong.

I totally agree that only rare, if any, mention of KR's details is weird. It could be something as simple as his place had the least amount of incriminating evidence, so they don't mention it much. There was only one victim at that scene, and that victim only had one bullet wound. Just a thought.
I agree with you. KR’s details rare and few. The Wagner’s left something tangible there… the money. DNA , prints & casing etc where found at crime scenes, but the money they purposely brought and left that we know of . And was he to go to work that day and didn’t because he was dead? Or was he not going to work that day and work on cars . I’ve read about both of the above, but never found which it was.
 
Yes he said those 3 calibers were associated with Crsr, DR,FR crime scenes but they never mentioned KR, what was found at his scene or any casings etc. The agent only spoke of those guns in regard to the 3 crime scenes what how it sounded to me.

Those are the guns on discovery but I was not sure if that meant they are the only ones used or the only ones they recovered. I sure wish I knew which caliber shot KR. I am not sure why they never mentioned KR at all in any regard.
Before he said 3 guns I wondered if there was 4 guns with 2 guns being the same caliber. Or a gun taken from a crime scene and used that was the same caliber as one of the Wg’s gun.
 
I agree with you. KR’s details rare and few. The Wagner’s left something tangible there… the money. DNA , prints & casing etc where found at crime scenes, but the money they purposely brought and left that we know of . And was he to go to work that day and didn’t because he was dead? Or was he not going to work that day and work on cars . I’ve read about both of the above, but never found which it was.
I have heard both stories also. The story about " work on cars" was something said by DS. I don't believe DS was telling the truth because that story suited his needs. All of the family thought KR was at work, so I think that is probably accurate. MO.
 
It would be interesting to know their base of operations just to appease my curiosity. I've always felt KR was last as the Ws made their way back to FWF on the back roads. If any of the remai g 3 decides to go to trial we will eventually know some of the logistics.

Jmo

Just curious, why do you feel that the W4 went to FWF after these murders? Honestly, knowing those backroads, they would have been ahead to have went back to Peterson Rd. Far less chance of detection IMO and JMO.
Maybe I missed out on this information being released though?? Thanks.
 
I have had similar thoughts, questions as you state here.
MO
3 Guns - each gun seemingly attributed to a specific Wagner
4 Wagners
5 victims accounted for- admittedly killed by Jake using his 22.
3 victims remaining - killed by 3 (?) remaining Wagner's using remaining 2 guns.

This makes me wonder how Geo4 could say he was not there or did not pull a trigger, unless AW did some shooting.

We know Billy had to have been one of the shooters.
Did Billy alone use 2 different guns, killing remaining 3 victims? Not realistic.

Had to be 2 different shooters at CRsr. If not GW4, Did AW kill one victim at CRsr, or elsewhere?

Would the 4 Wagners have "shared" 3 individual guns?

Was there a 4th gun, meaning all 4 Wagners were individually armed?
I can not imagine any of the W4 on UHR that night being unarmed.
As far as vehicles, drivers, idk.
But they had a lot of gear to transport.

JMO, I don't think any of the male Wagners would have brought AW as back up when going to Chris Sr's place, especially after he had just beat up Billy Wagner a week or so prior.

I'd have to go back in our posts from that time, but I don't recall Gary Rhoden's dad saying they found any 22 cartridges at Chris Sr's home. Some of his remarks were later edited out of the interview video, probably to protect the case.

JMO, its more likely it was Billy and GW4 at Chris Sr's. We know Gary was most likely shot with GW4's weapon. That's in the preliminary autopsy report and IIRC, Agent Scheiderer's testimony.

IIRC, there are no details available yet for weapons used at Frankie's place or at Dana's.
 
I agree with you. KR’s details rare and few. The Wagner’s left something tangible there… the money. DNA , prints & casing etc where found at crime scenes, but the money they purposely brought and left that we know of . And was he to go to work that day and didn’t because he was dead? Or was he not going to work that day and work on cars . I’ve read about both of the above, but never found which it was.

I think DS didn't say much at the time because Wagners stole or destroyed some of the pot plants at KR's. Maybe DS didn't want to talk about any of the grow op back then for fear LE would arrest him for that. JMO
 
Him being shot only once has always stuck in my mind as odd, compared to the other victims.

Another thing that puzzles me is, according to JW's confession, there were three guns used in the murders. There were four murderers. There were two vehicles used.

1. Did one person use someone else's gun to shoot a victim, or was there one person who never pulled a trigger?
2. Who were the getaway drivers?

I have thought that maybe at FR & Dr's someone held the babies and distracted the toddler or watched him to make sure he didn't get up while their partner did the shooting.
I think they had two team if you want to call it that or partners. I think team (1) was was AW\JW at FR & DR trailers - team (2) BW\GW4 at Chsr & KR each team had a vehicle and one team member was the driver. This was once
 
Him being shot only once has always stuck in my mind as odd, compared to the other victims.

Another thing that puzzles me is, according to JW's confession, there were three guns used in the murders. There were four murderers. There were two vehicles used.

1. Did one person use someone else's gun to shoot a victim, or was there one person who never pulled a trigger?
2. Who were the getaway drivers?

I have thought that maybe at FR & Dr's someone held the babies and distracted the toddler or watched him to make sure he he didn't get up. While their partner did the shooting.
I think they had two team if you want to call it that or partners. I think it was AW\JW at FR & DR trailers - BW\GW4 at Chsr & KR each team had a vehicle and one team member was the driver.
 
Just curious, why do you feel that the W4 went to FWF after these murders? Honestly, knowing those backroads, they would have been ahead to have went back to Peterson Rd. Far less chance of detection IMO and JMO.
Maybe I missed out on this information being released though?? Thanks.

After tbe murders, though, their clothes, shoes, etc would be splattered with blood. If the kids were at Peterson Rd with a babysitter, they would have needed to clean up a little before going home.
 
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