Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #5

[RickshawFan]

I'm afraid that she could. have. used her phone and seen the trail as a flat loop. I mean, I know she could see the area - but if she thought there was a "trail," she might not have noticed that section that heads up so steeply (I figure it's 30 degrees at least - just below 5.0, a tough scramble).

I've done stuff like this myself, but turned back. If I were committed, though (had to stay outdoors somewhere due to mileage), I can see myself making similar decisions. I didn't learn how to read topo until I took a class, I was probably 20, and became obsessed with figuring it out - but most of my classmates were less interested. And I find it very difficult to teach undergrads how to read such a map (a big, paper map...a phone would be...impossible for them to decipher).

.

To respond to @10ofRods . The slope down into France from P de la G is more like 65-70 degrees than 30. And @otto ’s photos show no switchbacks. But even switchbacks (hairpin turns) would be nutso. Black ice..

 

[RickshawFan]

I'm afraid that she could. have. used her phone and seen the trail as a flat loop. I mean, I know she could see the area - but if she thought there was a "trail," she might not have noticed that section that heads up so steeply (I figure it's 30 degrees at least - just below 5.0, a tough scramble).

I've done stuff like this myself, but turned back. If I were committed, though (had to stay outdoors somewhere due to mileage), I can see myself making similar decisions. I didn't learn how to read topo until I took a class, I was probably 20, and became obsessed with figuring it out - but most of my classmates were less interested. And I find it very difficult to teach undergrads how to read such a map (a big, paper map...a phone would be...impossible for them to decipher).

To respond to @10ofRods . The slope down into France from P de la G is more like 65-70 degrees than 30. And @otto ’s photos show no switchbacks. But even switchbacks (hairpin turns) would be nutso. You’d potentially zoom through an apex on the descent. Black ice. Slippery grit on the trail.

IMO I agree with your inclination that ED saw the trail as a flat loop on an electronic device or with a downloaded commercial map. For some reason this struck me as the most likely scenario since she went missing, but I have no real basis for that point. The reliance on phone GPS concerned me as well.

A topo map. That’s what I was looking for. Not an auto map. Topo maps are SPENDY critters, and you might have needed more than one to cover that loop.

 

[RickshawFan]

Not to mention that the descent uses muscles that are already exhausted - and not usually used.

Your last paragraph is gold - I hope all the WS hikers read it. Grand Canyon comes to mind (fortunately, I was warned carefully by various people and trained on downhill - downhill is exceptionally hard on the knees, no matter what your age is).

I think the GC is a great comparator. The P de la G is not quite as steep, but the GC trail bed is much wider, and the switchbacks flatten the angle quite a bit.

 

[Corina]

"SPENDY critters" translates to "expensive/costly items", yes?

 

[GeorgeC]

Hi everyone, I have been following this thread since Esther’s disappearance. I have been hoping beyond hope that Esther would (past reasonable expectation at this point) somehow be found alive.
However, my mind keeps circling back to the possibility of suicide. In a Facebook post 11/16/20 (a little less than a week before she went missing), Esther was discussing being in the mountains, ending with “wanted to stay up there forever ”. that comment and wink at the end really struck me (but maybe I’m reading into it?). Also, I find it odd that she went up to Pic de Sauvegarde two days in a row. It makes me wonder if perhaps she may have been looking for a secluded place in the area where she could ‘stay up there forever’.
Along with the comments above, it’s notable that she arrived to P de S so late in the afternoon, lingering there and connecting with her loved ones.
My thoughts, FWIW.

 

[Federico_A]

I think imaginations are running a bit wild and we're losing sight of some basic issues.

1. She disappeared without trace on an easy trail. The weather wasn't bad enough to cause any problems, and she was fit, experienced, and risk-averse. That's enough for me to discount misadventure almost completely.

2. She went to Spain because she wasn't allowed to hike in France. I suspect Esther was a highly conscientious and law-abiding type - she wouldn't flout the rules so brazenly, just as I don't think she would trespass on private land or leave litter. That's enough for me to discount the whole French loop altogether.

3. 'Dip into France' and 'heading to P de la Glere' are almost totally incompatible statements. Unless we assume she liked that side of the valley so much that she was prepared to go up again next day too visit Glere as a destination. That itinerary would most likely require spending the night back in the Benasque valley rather than going down to the Refuge de Vanesque and back up again next morning. I guess when she sent that text she hadn't yet thought it through.

A new sub-theory: <modsnip> who gave her a lift that morning <modsnip> He could have driven back up to Besurtas that evening in the hope of finding her again - she might actually have told him she intended to spend the night there <modsnip>

 

[RickshawFan]

"SPENDY critters" translates to "expensive/costly items", yes?

Yes. "Critters" are hillbilly talk for "creatures", but the word has made it's way into general vocabulary.

I found more photos from de la G:
This trail, one of the flatter sections, just NO NO NO NO NO: https://www.alltrails.com/trail/fra...enz-cabane-de-sardiche-refuge-de-la-glere?u=i

 

[RickshawFan]

This is the trail from the Hôpital to the P de la G. It's rated "Difficult".
https://www.alltrails.com/trail/spain/huesca/ibon-de-gorgutes-y-puerto-de-la-glera?u=i

 

[Federico_A]

This is the trail from the Hôpital to the P de la G. It's rated "Difficult".
https://www.alltrails.com/trail/spain/huesca/ibon-de-gorgutes-y-puerto-de-la-glera?u=i

I guess the term is relative to how old you are
It doesn't look bad to me from the 3D satellite images. This website describes the route as a 'fun excursion' and 'an excellent path' Port De La Glere
In any case, would be easy to find her gear along there if she had an accident.
I'm assuming she even didn't make it there. Everything's possible, but I would think <1% probability.

 

[Steve13]

It's interesting that the President of the Pyrenean Guides Association believes that she lost her way.

"Missing British hiker Esther Dingley is more likely to be the victim of a tragic accident than a criminal act, claims a leading mountain rescue expert.

Esther's boyfriend Dan Colegate recently suggested – before human remains were found near where the Oxford graduate disappeared in the Pyrenees last November – that he increasingly feared foul play.

But speaking after the discovery of what is believed to be a human skull and hair in the area last week, mountain rescue guide Patrick Lagleize said he believed it likely that Esther had lost her way and fallen to her death on treacherous scree [loose rock and gravel].

Mr Lagleize, President of the Pyrenean Guides Association (CGdP) said: 'You can lose the way and slide on the scree. Logically, for Esther to have fallen that way, is unfortunately quite plausible.'"
​

Esther Dingley more likely to have fallen from mountain in Pyrenees than been victim of criminal act | Daily Mail Online

It sounds like he thinks she made a mistake in this area.

View attachment 306473

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Great pics, Otto. Visibility was perfect on the day; she'd have had to walk off a path then either fall or deliberately try to cross the scree? I'm not saying she didn't, just that it seems odd of her if she did.

 

[Steve13]

Thank you QFederico_A … The first article I opened started out like this “High in the Pyrenees Mountains lies a boneyard filled with half-devoured skeletons… The keepers of this unholy crypt sweep by on nine-foot-long, gunmetal wings, their red-rimmed eyes studying the lonely terrain. They rise above the eeriness, bristly beards stirring in the wind.” Skillfully written…

The Lammgeier…

- Lives on a steady diet of bones.

# 80% of the bird's diet consists of bone and bone marrow. Its stomach acid has a pH of about 1, so the dense material can be digested in under 24 hours.

- The birds are not known to be hostile toward (living) humans. (Well, that’s good….).

- The lammergeier is a scavenger; after finding a picked-over carcass, the bird will drop it from a tremendous height to shatter it into swallow-able pieces. (This is interesting to consider since only a part of the skull was found… Sorry, no matter how I word it, it doesn’t sound right… L)

Source: 11 Facts About the Bone-Eating Bearded Vulture | Mental Floss

Thank you QFederico_A … The first article I opened started out like this “High in the Pyrenees Mountains lies a boneyard filled with half-devoured skeletons… The keepers of this unholy crypt sweep by on nine-foot-long, gunmetal wings, their red-rimmed eyes studying the lonely terrain. They rise above the eeriness, bristly beards stirring in the wind.” Skillfully written…

The Lammgeier…

- Lives on a steady diet of bones.

# 80% of the bird's diet consists of bone and bone marrow. Its stomach acid has a pH of about 1, so the dense material can be digested in under 24 hours.

- The birds are not known to be hostile toward (living) humans. (Well, that’s good….).

- The lammergeier is a scavenger; after finding a picked-over carcass, the bird will drop it from a tremendous height to shatter it into swallow-able pieces. (This is interesting to consider since only a part of the skull was found… Sorry, no matter how I word it, it doesn’t sound right… L)

Source: 11 Facts About the Bone-Eating Bearded Vulture | Mental Floss

Amazing facts, NoSI. A PH of one!

 

[Steve13]

This is the man who believes that Esther lost her way and had an accident on the scree. The gendarmerie is a "military force with law enforcement duties among the civilian population."

I realize that some countries obscure murder for tourism reasons, but that does not happen in all countries. In Canada, for example, murders are not hidden to trick tourists into thinking that Canada is a safe country.

I'm inclined to believe that this Frenchman is more interested in fact than tourism.

View attachment 306481

La Compagnie

Yes he doesn't, at face value, seem like the kind of guy getting a backhander from the local tourist agency to conceal the presence of hundreds of drugs-war-related corpses hanging from bridges in Pyrenean villages with warning notices hastily attached to their chests.

 

[Steve13]

To respond to @10ofRods . The slope down into France from P de la G is more like 65-70 degrees than 30. And @otto ’s photos show no switchbacks. But even switchbacks (hairpin turns) would be nutso. You’d potentially zoom through an apex on the descent. Black ice. Slippery grit on the trail.

IMO I agree with your inclination that ED saw the trail as a flat loop on an electronic device or with a downloaded commercial map. For some reason this struck me as the most likely scenario since she went missing, but I have no real basis for that point. The reliance on phone GPS concerned me as well.

A topo map. That’s what I was looking for. Not an auto map. Topo maps are SPENDY critters, and you might have needed more than one to cover that loop.

I was wondering exactly that. Does a single IGN map cover the area she was walking over? Was ED carrying an IGN map?

 

[Hexe]

I think imaginations are running a bit wild and we're losing sight of some basic issues.

1. She disappeared without trace on an easy trail. The weather wasn't bad enough to cause any problems, and she was fit, experienced, and risk-averse. That's enough for me to discount misadventure almost completely.

The weather in the mountains can change very fast. The fit, experienced people can have bad accidents on easy (or relatively easy) part of a trail.

I know the story of a group of climbers with great experience, even in Himalaya. One time that group tried an extra hard climbing route in mountains lower than the part of Pyrenees Esther went missing in. They haven't managed to do that route and started to descend from the mountain in bad mood, arguing and bickering a bit. On a relatively easy slope, with the refuge already in sight, one of them slipped and started to tumble down, taking with him the man that was still tied to the other end of his rope. Unfortunately they haven't managed to slow down or stop the fall and smashed into a pile of rock. Both died on the spot. Two super experienced, extra fit young climbers.

My point is that a serious accident can happen anywhere in the mountains and to anyone, no matter the weather, the level of fitness or difficulcy of the trail.

2. She went to Spain because she wasn't allowed to hike in France. I suspect Esther was a highly conscientious and law-abiding type - she wouldn't flout the rules so brazenly, just as I don't think she would trespass on private land or leave litter. That's enough for me to discount the whole French loop altogether.

Esther herself expressed the intention of going onto the French side, I see no reason to doubt her own words.

3. 'Dip into France' and 'heading to P de la Glere' are almost totally incompatible statements. Unless we assume she liked that side of the valley so much that she was prepared to go up again next day too visit Glere as a destination. That itinerary would most likely require spending the night back in the Benasque valley rather than going down to the Refuge de Vanesque and back up again next morning. I guess when she sent that text she hadn't yet thought it through.

One of the basic rules of safety in the mountains is to not hike solo and if you hike solo to leave someone your exact route. If Esther didn't have a route planned beforehand and sent to Dan, then she wasn't playing it very safe.

 

[BobbleBob]

Esther Dingley: Human remains found are missing British hiker's, charity says

Human remains found in the search for a missing British hiker have been confirmed as being hers, a charity says.

A bone found in the mountain range last week was DNA tested and confirmed as being Ms Dingley's, said the overseas crisis support charity LBT Global (formerly the Lucie Blackman Trust).



It makes me sad but also happy that the family and Dan will finally get some closure on this.

 

[Steve13]

She did have a paper map, and she also made a backup of it on her phone for good measure!

"For navigation Esther was carrying a physical map of the area which she had also photographed with her phone as a backup." from the dossier page 6

If we take the dossier as wholly reliable then we can be confident that ED did not take a compass with her. This is an extraordinary detail.

 

[sarahboirin]

Esther Dingley: Remains confirmed as those of missing hiker

it's her

thoughts to her family, she stays in those mountains forever

 

[Steve13]

Esther Dingley: Human remains found are missing British hiker's, charity says

Human remains found in the search for a missing British hiker have been confirmed as being hers, a charity says.

A bone found in the mountain range last week was DNA tested and confirmed as being Ms Dingley's, said the overseas crisis support charity LBT Global (formerly the Lucie Blackman Trust).



It makes me sad but also happy that the family and Dan will finally get some closure on this.

I feel profoundly sad to think that Esther may have laid there injured but alive for some time, while it took 3 days (according to dossier) for SAR to be alerted. I also really hope SAR were not alerted on 24th (as Daily Mail has it) then allowed 2 nights to pass before commencing the search.

 

[ZaZara]

RIP Esther Dingley, forever in the mountains


As expected, still so sad.

 

[ZaZara]

Esther Dingley: remains found in Pyrenees are missing Briton’s

“At this stage, with just a single bone found and no sign of equipment or clothing in the immediate area (which has been closely searched again over several days), the details of what happened and where still remain unknown.

“The search and rescue teams intend to continue their search on foot and with drones, particularly trying to find some sign of Esther’s equipment to understand how this tragedy occurred.

“The family would like to express their gratitude to the officers in charge of the various police units in France and Spain, the British consulates in Bordeaux and Barcelona, and LBT Global, all of whom have remained in close contact with us for months now. Their continued support and their determination to find answers is welcome.”


BBM