GUILTY UK - Bernadette Walker, 17, left parent's car, Peterborough, 21 July 2020 *Arrests* #5

[jackal67]

Let’s not attack one another. If we all agreed then this site would close as each thread would have one post!

personally I am with they jury, but I felt she was walking free with the two she pleaded guilty to. The web searches, the comments to friends and the background meant she made a good victim. However, she’s been found guilty, that’s the decision. If she doesn’t like it, she can appeal if new evidence comes to light

I don't think anyone is attacking anyone here. When we post an opinion on here we usually give our reasons why we think that way , not just well I don't believe the evidence !

 

[SaintMoore]

Sarah was convicted by a majority vote, whereas Scott was convicted by a unanimous vote.

Can someone please explain exactly what that means?

 

[89leanne89]

Unanimous means ALL the jurors find the defendant guilty.
Majority means the MAJORITY of the jurors find the defendant guilty.

 

[Tortoise]

A majority in this case was a verdict of 10 of the 12 jurors. It has exactly the same effect as a unanimous verdict. It is not justification for an appeal for example.

 

[Gecko3]

Dbm

 

[Gecko3]

he isn't her step father as ScW and SaW are n

Well the Jury decided she was. They would have heard and seen far more evidence than we and were much better equipped to make that decision.

He definitely was her step father. In case of any doubt regarding this the Sexual Offences Act 2003 provides a clear definition of step parent...

(d)a person is another’s partner (whether they are of different sexes or the same sex) if they live together as partners in an enduring family relationship;

(e)“step-parent” includes a parent’s partner and “stepbrother” and “stepsister” include the child of a parent’s partner.[/QUOTE]

 

[MissMarbles]

Somehow I had always previously assumed that all evidence presented at trial (apart from some photos) would be in the public domain, however this appears not to be the case (unless I'm wrong on this.

It's a frustrating state of affairs for people outside of the trial to be able to fully understand everything that took place, exactly which mobile phone masts were connected to (Descriptions like "Gunthorpe" are so vague), which ANPR cameras and speed cameras were activated (and which ones weren't), etc.

I'd love to be able to extrapolate from that evidence where B may have been killed and where she may have been left.

Before the guilty verdict I had wondered whether B ran off in a panic (without her bag) towards a railway line. At other times wondered whether Scott and Sarah pulled over at lay-bys and left B a short distance from there (for example on the A16 between Peterborough and Cowbit).

I remember someone mentioning land next to a level crossing at either Glinton or Peakirk, did that ever get checked do you know? I don't seem to be able to get the search function to work on threads, so sorry I can't link to that person's post.

I seem to remember Barnoak Road being mentioned and then being searched by someone else and nothing found.

I keep wondering where could B be, could the various trips by Scott and Sarah indicate the possibility of multiple deposition sites (this would be rather grim)? But that would need opportunity, time, space, knowing what to do, and removing all evidence afterwards, and to be honest is awful to think about.

 

[Harry6]

"Murder" conviction without establishing death of Bernadette Walker?

I get that there was significant incriminating circumstantial evidence.

But murder convictions are supposed to require prosecutor to show a minimum of THREE things:
1. Victim is dead (this could be DNA evidence, dental records, credible testimony of lost at sea, a body, hair, fibers, fingerprints, etc etc.)
Without proof of death, one cannot prove a crime of murder.

In the tragic case of Bernadette Walker, she is described as missing since July 2020.
Probably dead is not enough.
A body is not necessary to prove death.
But death must nevertheless be proved by prosecution to have a crime of murder.

Some family members are reported to be still hopeful of finding her alive.

Headlines say Scott Walker was convicted of murder.
But... the text of some articles says Walker was convicted not of murder, but of "perverting the course of justice" (obstruction to this American.)

So..
Did the prosecutor prove that Bee Walker is deceased?
Was the conviction murder, or was it not?

 

[dunkley]

"Murder" conviction without establishing death of Bernadette Walker?

I get that there was significant incriminating circumstantial evidence.

But murder convictions are supposed to require prosecutor to show a minimum of THREE things:
1. Victim is dead (this could be DNA evidence, dental records, credible testimony of lost at sea, a body, hair, fibers, fingerprints, etc etc.)
Without proof of death, one cannot prove a crime of murder.

In the tragic case of Bernadette Walker, she is described as missing since July 2020.
Probably dead is not enough.
A body is not necessary to prove death.
But death must nevertheless be proved by prosecution to have a crime of murder.

Some family members are reported to be still hopeful of finding her alive.

Headlines say Scott Walker was convicted of murder.
But... the text of some articles says Walker was convicted not of murder, but of "perverting the course of justice" (obstruction to this American.)

So..
Did the prosecutor prove that Bee Walker is deceased?
Was the conviction murder, or was it not?

Yes, he was convicted of Murder, and two counts of Perverting the Course of Justice.
Your quoted requirement for charging is, I think, from the US not the UK.

This has several similarities.

BBC NEWS | UK | England | Proving murder without a body

 

[Mercsw]

It’s rare for a murder without evidence to occur, but the evidence was fairly strong on this one. He was unanimously guilty by all jurors.

actually I feel the jurors were spot on, as 10-2 for mother to go down too is about right. I had some doubts at points, but I don’t believe they are wrong.

 

[SaintMoore]

Well... Is there a death certificate for B or not?

 

[Harry6]

Thank's for writing dunkley, Mercsw, and SaintMore,

SaintMoore: NO death certificate. The defense argued that since there no forensic evidence of B being deceased was introduced, there could be no murder case.

dunkley: The idea that the prosecution must prove someone is dead as a first prerequisite to a murder conviction originates in English law, though we have it the U.S. as well, and it is a matter of basic logic.

The requirement to prove a victim dead as a prerequisite to a murder conviction goes back to 17th century England.
Three brothers where hanged for the murder of a person who subsequently dissappeared and claimed to have been kidnapped. The mother of one of the brothers was also executed on suspicion of being a witch who had cast a spell on her sons causing them to commit the murder. See here: Campden Wonder - Wikipedia

With, or without a body, the prosecution is required to prove that a victim is dead in order to pursue a murder charge. The article you provided a link to says, "There's lots of ways that you can fairly confidently prove that people are no longer alive."

A corpse is not required. But proof that someone is no longer alive is required.

In this case, B's brother and some family members are said to be holding out hope that B will be found alive.



Mercsw: Yes, there was a lot of circumstantial evidence in this case. But unless the prosecution established in some way that B is no longer alive, it seems to me that a murder conviction should be impossible.




There are headlines saying there was a murder conviction.
Is there an official statement, or a quote from the prosecutor, saying there was a murder conviction?

 

[HongKongPhooey]

I'm confused. Scott Walker has been found GUILTY of Bernadette's MURDER. Sarah Walker has been found GUILTY of perverting the course of justice relating to her MURDER.

Case closed.

WS is not the place for outlandish conspiracy theories. Or fan clubs of murderers.

JMO

 

[Skigh]

I'm confused. Scott Walker has been found GUILTY of Bernadette's MURDER. Sarah Walker has been found GUILTY of perverting the course of justice relating to her MURDER.

Case closed.

WS is not the place for outlandish conspiracy theories. Or fan clubs of murderers.

JMO

Excellent post. Totally agree.

 

[MrsBrooks]

I was about to write I am confused also! - we KNOW what he and Sarah were charged with and they were both found guilty of those charges. It’s pretty straight forward! Scott Walker was found guilty of murder. It’s irrelevant whether or not you think this should be the case.

 

[Legally Bland]

I'm not really sure why this is needed as ScW was clearly found guilty of murder, but here's the post trial press release from the Crown Prosecution Service.

Teenager murdered to stop her speaking out about sexual abuse | The Crown Prosecution Service

 

[Harry6]

HongKongPhooey,Skigh, MrsBrooks,

B Walker's Brother is seeking information on the whereabouts of his sister, hoping she is alive, missing, and will return.

The odds of this happening appear slim. But if it has not been established that B Walker is not alive, perhaps members of this forum might be more empathetic to him.

Asking about whether or not the prosecution established that B Walker is dead is a basic issue when it comes to missing persons cases.

It has nothing to do with anything I might think about Scott or Sarah Walker.

 

[Harry6]

Hi Legally Bland,

Thanks for the link! That helps a lot! Some articles I read had headlines about murder but then only referenced the charges about "perverting the course of justice."

I am still confused about how / whether the prosecution established that B is no longer alive.

This is a sad case.
My heart goes out to B and the friends and family who cared about and loved her.

 

[Skigh]

HongKongPhooey,Skigh, MrsBrooks,

B Walker's Brother is seeking information on the whereabouts of his sister, hoping she is alive, missing, and will return.

The odds of this happening appear slim. But if it has not been established that B Walker is not alive, perhaps members of this forum might be more empathetic to him.

Asking about whether or not the prosecution established that B Walker is dead is a basic issue when it comes to missing persons cases.

It has nothing to do with anything I might think about Scott or Sarah Walker.

I do not think this is the correct forum to be seeking information about whether Berni is alive.

We have posted numerous articles showing that a murder verdict was given. Perhaps the kindest thing to do would be to get her brother help in accepting his sister is dead.

Alternatively, persuade his mother or ScW to tell them where Berni's body has been hidden.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Members of this forum have total sympathy for Bernadette's siblings and I for one hope they receive all the support they need to move forward. But I think this will start with acceptance of what has happened to Bernadette and people should help with that, rather than disputing what the legal process has defined.

IMO it rests in the hands of their own mother and stepfather to end their torment. If they admitted where she is, they may start to find some peace.