UK - Logan Mwangi, 5, found dead in Wales River, Bridgend, 31 July 2021 *arrests, inc. minor*

[ChloLo]

PM aren’t as precise as tv/film would have you believe. They give a time frame rather than an exact time. It’s better to have a wider range of dates, than the defence being like “oh yeah that didn’t happen on the date” and then having the defendants get off on a technicality like the wrong date.

 

[infinit]

PM aren’t as precise as tv/film would have you believe. They give a time frame rather than an exact time. It’s better to have a wider range of dates, than the defence being like “oh yeah that didn’t happen on the date” and then having the defendants get off on a technicality like the wrong date.

I'd have assumed his internal temperature would have been taken on scene and there are common equations to then figure out hours elapsed since death when it is so recent because the body loses heat in a known way. Rather than relying on the PM. I guess water could mess with that but I assume professionals have ways of factoring that in by taking the water temp.

Injuries are probably more subjective but then again if they were caused within hours of his death there would be very little evidence of healing.

JMO/not an expert.

 

[Little Nicki]

Ahhh ok. I could have ended it with my first sentence then Do they have to? No

Haha yes - but I appreciate yr answer and I'm sure someone learned something from it <3

 

[LucyRocket]

I'd have assumed his internal temperature would have been taken on scene and there are common equations to then figure out hours elapsed since death when it is so recent because the body loses heat in a known way. Rather than relying on the PM. I guess water could mess with that but I assume professionals have ways of factoring that in by taking the water temp.

Injuries are probably more subjective but then again if they were caused within hours of his death there would be very little evidence of healing.

JMO/not an expert.

They actually wouldn't even rely on the medical examiner's opinion of when he died to set the time frame, because that's his expert opinion. They always go by the day prior to the last time the person was undeniably alive. So that could be the day prior to him having been seen by a professional such as social worker, police officer or health professional, or on CCTV.

 

[Cherwell]

I'm interested that they've given this range of dates which goes all the way back to Wednesday, seems weird if this all happened that night on the 31st

It's the standard format, as I explained earlier.

The usual format is to give the day before the victim was last seen alive and the day after s/he was found dead. So the actual date is between those dates.
It is the most accurate way of expressing the date of a crime before more details are available.

 

[InVinoVeritas]

Imagine how the 13 year olds mother and extended family feel. I cannot imagine the emotions I would feel if my son got caught up in something like this whilst at his Dads. Would his family be able to see him in secure care?

 

[ChloLo]

There are so many more factors that influence (forgive me) decomposition, water is a good one to mention, water reduces body temperature and can do quickly.
As other have stated though, the time frame will be the last time Logan was confirmed seen alive until just after his death.

 

[Coach]

Even if some of poor Logan’s injuries could have been sustained playing football or as a result of an accident, they wouldn’t have covered it up and dumped his body. The poor wee soul must have been in horrific pain and for his mother to go along with the cover up is absolutely the lowest of the low. How on earth could she do that.

 

[Amonet]

I just don't understand why she would go along with it if she wasn't aware at all. If you're a normal parent and you find your child unconcious or not breathing unexpectedly you're calling 999 surely? Why would you even entertain going along with it. Surely your entire focus would be getting medical care for your child.

Her story of waking up to him missing clearly doesn't seem to have held up as they seem to have felt they have the evidence to charge.

I agree with this and it was playing on my mind last night.

I would think a parent who finds their child dead would want firstly an ambulance, and secondly to know why their child died.

Surely the only reason to not want either of those things is because you do know what (who) caused the death and how?

 

[Sooty]

I wonder if there could be a scenario whereby AW could have thought she was actually responsible for the death when she discovered it - for an example - she administered some adult medication thinking he was hurt or sick (but without knowing that he was actually fatally injured) which is why she reacted to the situation as she did.
Or maybe she had popped him into bed with her because he was ill and when she found him dead she thought she had lain on him and smothered him. Maybe that’s why they made up an account of abduction and he was in a bag ( feel awful even writing about this ) I’m sure there must be other examples you could come up with. I know it’s a crazy idea but just trying to think outside the box a bit!
I think if she had known, or the police believed she had known, what had really happened she would be under the charge for cruelty so whatever she has given in her interviews must have made some sort of sense.
MOO

 

[Moll]

That does seem unlikely, in view of the evidence already revealed in court. I feel we should wait for the plea hearing and more evidence.

 

[Newsjunkiejen]

I wonder if there could be a scenario whereby AW could have thought she was actually responsible for the death when she discovered it - for an example - she administered some adult medication thinking he was hurt or sick (but without knowing that he was actually fatally injured) which is why she reacted to the situation as she did.
Or maybe she had popped him into bed with her because he was ill and when she found him dead she thought she had lain on him and smothered him. Maybe that’s why they made up an account of abduction and he was in a bag ( feel awful even writing about this ) I’m sure there must be other examples you could come up with. I know it’s a crazy idea but just trying to think outside the box a bit!
I think if she had known, or the police believed she had known, what had really happened she would be under the charge for cruelty so whatever she has given in her interviews must have made some sort of sense.
MOO

JMO but I feel that's there's absolutely no way that Logan could have sustained those injuries - and if still awake and cognizant - not be crying out or screaming in pain. If AW is going to claim that she didn't know, or was unaware, of his injuries, I can only think that he was unconscious (had maybe passed out because of the pain or was knocked unconscious by JC) and AW just thought that he was sleeping.

Also, to echo the thoughts of someone who commented earlier, I too believe that the 13yr old's involvement is that he assisted in carrying Logan's body to the river, and it was this act that was captured on the doorbell-cam footage and thus incriminated him.

Maybe the 13yr old PTCOJ by doing that, and maybe AW PTCOJ by concocting a half baked story about Logan going missing and the door being open etc. Perhaps she was planning the 'cover story' whilst JC and the 13yr old were out disposing of Logan's body in the river, and JC said she better think of a plan by the time they get back?

All just my opinion.

 

[Newsjunkiejen]

JMO but I feel that's there's absolutely no way that Logan could have sustained those injuries - and if still awake and cognizant - not be crying out or screaming in pain. If AW is going to claim that she didn't know, or was unaware, of his injuries, I can only think that he was unconscious (had maybe passed out because of the pain or was knocked unconscious by JC) and AW just thought that he was sleeping.

Also, to echo the thoughts of someone who commented earlier, I too believe that the 13yr old's involvement is that he assisted in carrying Logan's body to the river, and it was this act that was captured on the doorbell-cam footage and thus incriminated him.

Maybe the 13yr old PTCOJ by doing that, and maybe AW PTCOJ by concocting a half baked story about Logan going missing and the door being open etc. Perhaps she was planning the 'cover story' whilst JC and the 13yr old were out disposing of Logan's body in the river, and JC said she better think of a plan by the time they get back?

All just my opinion.

Reading my own comment through just now I've had second thoughts..

Why would JC recruit the 13yr old to help him to the river with Logan? It's not like JC had to move the body of a grown adult - were talking about a 5yr old child who, going by the photos of Logan, looked quite small in stature so can't have weighed a lot. Surely JC would be able to carry a 5yr old by himself without assistance?

This makes me circle back round to the theory that the 13yr old was more involved than initially thought, otherwise why implicate him and drag him into something he had no involvement in to begin with?

MOO

 

[RusselSprout]

My theory in the above is aw found Logan deceased in his bed and he was sharing a room with the 13yo. So the 13yo was there when they discovered he had passed. So he was there when whatever ensued after aw discovered Logan was deceased, he couldn't avoid being 'involved'.
But that's an interesting question and one I've not thought about - who was the second person on the CCTV and did jc need the second persons help? Why was the second person there....I'll need to have a think.
All MOO

 

[InVinoVeritas]

Obviously I’ve never committed a murder, but this “plan” has many flaws. Why the river? Surely they knew their doorbell had a video? IF this was an isolated accident you would just phone 999!
I keep mulling it over and whilst we can’t account for shock, I can’t imagine any mother just going along with this! It doesn’t make any sense to me. Could she have been unconscious herself?
Perhaps JC was under the influence of things and this shambolic plan to cover up was hatched by the 13 yo? Maybe JC wasn’t steady on his feet to carry LW to the river?
MOO

 

[Sarahlou]

Obviously I’ve never committed a murder, but this “plan” has many flaws. Why the river? Surely they knew their doorbell had a video? IF this was an isolated accident you would just phone 999!
I keep mulling it over and whilst we can’t account for shock, I can’t imagine any mother just going along with this! It doesn’t make any sense to me. Could she have been unconscious herself?
Perhaps JC was under the influence of things and this shambolic plan to cover up was hatched by the 13 yo? Maybe JC wasn’t steady on his feet to carry LW to the river?
MOO

Unfortunately there have been many mothers who have gone along with things like this. It's not understandable but it happens.

 

[Mrs Marple]

My theory in the above is aw found Logan deceased in his bed and he was sharing a room with the 13yo. So the 13yo was there when they discovered he had passed. So he was there when whatever ensued after aw discovered Logan was deceased, he couldn't avoid being 'involved'.
But that's an interesting question and one I've not thought about - who was the second person on the CCTV and did jc need the second persons help? Why was the second person there....I'll need to have a think.
All MOO

If it turns out he has been charged because he was present l think that's very harsh. In this scenario l would wonder if he was known to the police already and it seems like an opportunity to put him away for a while in in hope he learns his lesson.

 

[InVinoVeritas]

AW screaming and collapsing at the hospital would fit with “coming to” from whatever they could’ve been on and not being aware what was happening and therefore genuinely shocked at hearing the awful news.
Drugs can cause paranoia and hallucinations, especially if mixed with alcohol ... who knows how active a part of family life this might’ve been but I definitely think this is a real possibility MOO

 

[Lucy6226]

Or otherwise a very good acting performance. There's definitely something strange about a mother being cold enough to either ignore abuse or willing dump their child like litter in the river....but then stay with the dead child in hospital for hours, crying hysterically and collapsing. It just doesn't fit does it?

 

[Amonet]

Or otherwise a very good acting performance. There's definitely something strange about a mother being cold enough to either ignore abuse or willing dump their child like litter in the river....but then stay with the dead child in hospital for hours, crying hysterically and collapsing. It just doesn't fit does it?

I don't know, I think things can be a bit of both. I think she would have had to hold the grief inside while pretending Logan had run away, so seeing his body in the hospital was the first time she could properly grieve his death openly and freely. She'd lost her son and she'd also be coming to terms with her life now being changed forever because of what happened and they couldn't pretend and make it go away like they tried to. It would be a lot to take in.