Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #6

[CoverMeCagney]

I’m sorry but this is really bizarre, why this constant need to control the narrative? I’ve not seen any new reports that actually accuse DC of being involved. Yes speculation in the comments sections but that’s not what this statement is addressing. This just seems to be drawing attention to speculation which most people would not have even seen. Whoever is advising him should be let go - just let poor Esther rest in peace now, this story doesn’t need to be kept active in the media.

<modsnip>

I think they’ve done the right thing to nip it in the bud before it gets regurgitated all over the net.

I posted what was actually said in the article, upthread. Not dignifying it with a link.

 

[otto]

View attachment 308569

The yellow oval approximates @otto 's red oval on the contour map....I have added a green line as I think it must be to the right in order for the skull to end up on the red cross....which I think we are all agreed is the correct location - on the trail at 2200m

I agree. If she hiked in Spain to the Port de la Glere on Nov 23, with a plan to go to Refuge de la Venasque, this could be a mistake she made.

Red Arrow = approximate skull location
Red Circle = approximate body location
Yellow Dashed Line = actual path that skirts second large lake
White Dashed Line = path that skirts first large lake near small lake





Possible route error

 

[Mel79]

The fact that her gear was found with her indicates to me that she fell from much lower down on Pic de la Glere rather than the top (she surely wouldn't carry all her gear on an up-down hike, especially one involving a scramble). There is a small path going up the lower shoulder of Pic de la Glere towards the escarpment (see attached picture). I'm guessing she fell from point X.

She could have been looking for shelter or trying to get away from something.

There is a video of Esther and Dan somewhere, where mountain rescue is nearby searching for someone. They talk about what an amazing job SAR do in sometimes treacherous circumstances. She was fully aware. I’ll try and find it.

Found it!

Interesting video. Sadly she doesn't get much of a chance to talk! When she does she looks to him constantly, maybe in case he'll be annoyed with her interjecting.

The Daily Fail story has now been amended (but still doesn't make any sense!)

Captain Jean Marc Bordinaro said Dan Colegate concentrated on the rocky terrain near where part of her skull had been found last month, locating her body about 437 yards (400m) from the remote peak of Pic de la Glere which straddles the French Spanish border in the Pyrenees.

Her skull was found 656 yards (600m) away further south down a twisting path that experienced hikers have described as 'treacherous'.

So this is now saying the body was at 2050m and the skull below that (600m!!) which I don't believe as it doesn't fit at all with the initial 2200m finding of the skull.

Esther Dingley's boyfriend 'paced up and down for DAYS' retracing her steps until he found her body | Daily Mail Online

Does anyone have a better source?

You could interpret this latest puzzler as both distances measured from the Pic - body 400m, skull +200m

 

[IrisElizabeth]

It’s in one of the tabloids, Iris. And you know how it goes - silly, excitable people jump on the screeching headlines then come to forums like this to present it as fact. Got a link, innit.

I think they’ve done the right thing to nip it in the bud before it gets regurgitated all over the net.

I posted what was actually said in the article, upthread. Not dignifying it with a link.

I don't know, I just feel it's drawing attention to the fact that some people think DC did it - rather than nipping it in the bud, it is giving that idea a far wider reach. It almost gives the impression that he doth protest too much - not saying I think that personally, but that's the message I can see being taken from that press release by those who are already convinced he had something to do with it.

 

[otto]

Was her entire body found - with supplies?

Yes. There's a question as to whether her yellow fly/tie-tent has been found, but otherwise it looks like she and her equipment have been found.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I don't know, I just feel it's drawing attention to the fact that some people think DC did it - rather than nipping it in the bud, it is giving that idea a far wider reach. It almost gives the impression that he doth protest too much - not saying I think that personally, but that's the message I can see being taken from that press release by those who are already convinced he had something to do with it.

I'm not a huge fan of LBT but why should they allow lies to snowball? Surely, after all the mud slung at Dan, they're allowed to defend him.

<modsnip>

 

[RickshawFan]

Even if they hadn’t been together for months, 4 if my memory for how long ED was on her solo jaunt is correct?

They had only been separated a month, and there’s also the campervan, shared equipment,
With both DNA’s. Bottom line is, they wouldn’t be able to separate detritus from 2 members of a couple in a way that would be helpful to canines.

 

[Grouse]

I’m sorry but this is really bizarre, why this constant need to control the narrative? I’ve not seen any new reports that actually accuse DC of being involved. Yes speculation in the comments sections but that’s not what this statement is addressing. This just seems to be drawing attention to speculation which most people would not have even seen. Whoever is advising him should be let go - just let poor Esther rest in peace now, this story doesn’t need to be kept active in the media.

I've seen and been bit saddened by quite a lot of criticism of LBT up thread here in this respect, but I really think it was the sensible thing for the family to do to engage them to handle communications. Personally I don't see it as being about controlling the narrative so much as trying to keep the wolves at bay. Whipped up by the gutter press no doubt, I have seen an awful lot of truly shocking and disgusting comments posted on the internet regarding this case ("the boyfriend did it" etc etc). That won't stop but I think using an agency this way probably helps and supports the family. Dealing with her loss is bad enough, but to have all this on top to deal with as well!

 

[pineapple23]

I don't know, I just feel it's drawing attention to the fact that some people think DC did it - rather than nipping it in the bud, it is giving that idea a far wider reach.

That's how I felt about it as well. It's always a risk when issuing 'denials'. Not that I am criticising LBT or the use of it. It's a tricky one but it might have been better to let this go.

 

[RickshawFan]

I've also been feeling increasingly uneasy about French SAR, and the thoroughness of their searches. They were so insistent back in December that there was no evidence that she had ever crossed into France, and then in July that her skull hadn't been there when they had previously searched Cirque de la Glere. Although I think she most likely spent another night at Cabane de la Besurta (given that she didn’t turn her phone back on, and we know that it is in a signal blackspot), I now wonder whether French LE and SAR could also have missed traces of her at Refuge de Venasque...

Snipped for focus
It looks as though ED was never in France, which would account for lack of evidence.
The skull fragment was found in France, but that's just where it ended up right before the trail runner spotted it. It wasn’t there before. Either an animal took it there, it rolled downslope, or moved with waterflow from snowmelt. Or all of those.
There’s no reason to fault SAR. They have standard protocols, and they were looking for someone who was taking a lot of risks. Besides, by the time they were contacted, they were likely in recovery, not rescue mode.

 

[otto]

Excellent deduction, I’ve done something similar myself once,… thought the lake was another lake and went completely down another ajoining valley, following a sheep trail and stream,.. thing they were the path…. Hours later turned up 10 miles down the wrong pass,.. it was only in the Lake District, so at least I could get a bus back to Keswick at 8pm thank god !

I think it's one possibility. Someone posted a comment that Esther made a few days prior to her disappearance. I don't have the link, but the gist of it was that she made some mistakes with the trail navigation, got a bit lost on animal trails and, in general, was a bit lost for a short time.

Mixing up the lakes, or deciding that the second lake she encountered meant she should circle around the lake and head to the ridge, could be a fatal mistake. I'm curious whether Dan was generally the navigator with mountain hikes.

Yellow Line = correct route
White Line = wrong route, but once taken, perhaps followed by a decision to hike the ridge

 

[Grouse]

I don't know, I just feel it's drawing attention to the fact that some people think DC did it - rather than nipping it in the bud, it is giving that idea a far wider reach. It almost gives the impression that he doth protest too much - not saying I think that personally, but that's the message I can see being taken from that press release by those who are already convinced he had something to do with it.

But how could not saying anything nip it in the bud?

 

[Hatty]

Did LE/SAR say the backpack was on the remains? I can't remember seeing that. I got the impression it was not, i.e. likely there was no falling with a pack on, though I suppose a person could fall with a pack on and then take it off.

She could have been looking for shelter or trying to get away from something.


Interesting video. Sadly she doesn't get much of a chance to talk! When she does she looks to him constantly, maybe in case he'll be annoyed with her interjecting.

Sorry, but I don’t agree.

 

[Hatty]

The remains fell UP? 400m below the Pic would be lower than where the skull piece was found at 2200m.

I think with the amount of naff reporting conjecture is somewhat fruitless!

 

[pineapple23]

But how could not saying anything nip it in the bud?

It's a classic dilemma is it not? Sometimes when you (justifiably) respond to something, it has the opposite effect and fans the flames instead. That said, those of a conspiracy bent probably haven't got LBT high up on their list of sources anyway.

 

[Grouse]

It's a classic dilemma is it not? Sometimes when you (justifiably) respond to something, it has the opposite effect and fans the flames instead.

Haters gonna hate.

 

[nazvilusa]

Awaiting factual analyses. That said, I am reminded of a couple in the US Peace Corps in the mid to late 1960s , who were 1 day away from permanent return to the US ("home" in the Midwest). The woman was ambivalent/conflicted about a permanent return after almost 6 years working in an idyllic part of the world (teaching life skills etc to a smaller village). She however did not disclose her ambivalence to her partner. On the morning of the return flight she disappeared. Eventually she was found wandering alone in a remote area of the near countryside. Allegedly, the Peace Corps officially stated she had a nervous breakdown. Unofficially, it is believed she could not face returning to an ordinary American Midwestern lifestyle after 6 years of bliss doing her own thing unconventionally. She could not handle what she thought/assumed would be demands on her upon return. How would she support herself, what would she do in life going forward, etc etc.There are layers and layers of emotional pressure she certainly felt that effected her judgment ultimately. All sorts of possible scenarios. In this case, it also was not good ending. Loss of control is part of the equation according
to experts. She would lose control over her life's direction, in her mind ,upon return to the US.
Have no idea if the foregoing is relevant.

 

[Hatty]

I had a friend who left her house in the early hours of the morning, left her husband and two children- woke up, walked out in the night in the middle of winter and went and sat by a tree in some fields until the cold took her away from depression, and sadly her family and young children. It’s not always what you think suicide. She was found the following afternoon.

IME of investigating umpteen suicides, people rarely behave how one might expect - both victims and those left behind.

 

[Grouse]

Awaiting factual analyses. That said, I am reminded of a couple in the US Peace Corps in the mid to late 1960s , who were 1 day away from permanent return to the US ("home" in the Midwest). The woman was ambivalent/conflicted about a permanent return after almost 6 years working in an idyllic part of the world (teaching life skills etc to a smaller village). She however did not disclose her ambivalence to her partner. On the morning of the return flight she disappeared. Eventually she was found wandering alone in a remote area of the near countryside. Allegedly, the Peace Corps officially stated she had a nervous breakdown. Unofficially, it is believed she could not face returning to an ordinary American Midwestern lifestyle after 6 years of bliss doing her own thing unconventionally. She could not handle what she thought/assumed would be demands on her upon return. How would she support herself, what would she do in life going forward, etc etc.There are layers and layers of emotional pressure she certainly felt that effected her judgment ultimately. All sorts of possible scenarios. In this case, it also was not good ending. Loss of control is part of the equation according
to experts. She would lose control over her life's direction, in her mind ,upon return to the US.
Have no idea if the foregoing is relevant.

I do remember reading about that case, it was possibly up thread here, or somewhere else, and I can see why this case might remind you if that one.

 

[Mel79]

Excellent deduction, I’ve done something similar myself once,… thought the lake was another lake and went completely down another ajoining valley, following a sheep trail and stream,.. thing they were the path…. Hours later turned up 10 miles down the wrong pass,.. it was only in the Lake District, so at least I could get a bus back to Keswick at 8pm thank god !

It's an interesting theory but it just looks way too steep to me and there's no path. Looking at the route from the Spanish side I can't imagine that she would carry on hopping over those boulders and then zero path over very steep scree, dropping straight into the lake.