Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #6

[Grouse]

And they have all been in action on certain other sites. Some still wouldn't be convinced even if there was authentic video footage showing a natural accident.

Indeed. I think a lot probably secretly want the media to keep the pressure up.

 

[Greenestdays]

She had been up to Pic De Sauvegarde the day before, plus from pictures it seems the right trail is well marked, so the theory she mixed up the lakes and climbed a wrong peak by accident makes no sense, IMO.

 

[Konstantin]

She could have been looking for shelter or trying to get away from something.


Interesting video. Sadly she doesn't get much of a chance to talk! When she does she looks to him constantly, maybe in case he'll be annoyed with her interjecting.

Dan is doing the vlog and Esther is in the background behind him and just echoing some of his words. He’s in charge. She looks a bit tired and empty to me. <modsnip>

 

[OEJ-JEO]

It's an interesting theory but it just looks way too steep to me and there's no path. Looking at the route from the Spanish side I can't imagine that she would carry on hopping over those boulders and then zero path over very steep scree, dropping straight into the lake.

I was about to say the same thing. The correct path is clear on the ground at that point, and the screes to the far side of the wrong lake look impassably steep:

Google Maps

 

[Owlpellet]

(Fwiw, I saw someone who might have been a bit tired, but who was fully aware & there, often with a little smile on her face, who kept having to restrain herself from piping up, but for whatever reason had chosen to give him the floor).

That’s what I saw too

 

[Grouse]

That’s what I saw too

I agree, I really don't see the control freak type scenario some have hinted at.

 

[Mel79]

I was about to say the same thing. The correct path is clear on the ground at that point, and the screes to the far side of the wrong lake look impassably steep:

Google Maps

If I was confronted with this dilemma I would head to the left, round the easy side of the lake away from the mountain scree, to get to the same point, so it doesn't look a realistic possibility to me either.

 

[pineapple23]

I agree, I really don't see the control freak type scenario some have hinted at.

I don't see where we are going with it anyway - unless people want to imply it might be significant in an argument for suicide (or worse). The poor bloke has had his relationship analyzed and picked apart to the nth degree in the past months. Fair enough but maybe time to move on.

 

[otto]

To clarify the location of the correct lake and the wrong lake, I've created map that shows the larger context.

Red Arrow = approximate body location just across the border, dipping into France.



Close up of the correct lake and the wrong lake.

White dashed lines = the wrong lake
Yellow dashed line = correct lake



The white dashed line starts at the wrong lake, but hiking that unmarked route could leave Esther near the location where she may have fallen.

 

[Grouse]

I don't see where we are going with it anyway - unless people want to imply it might be significant in an argument for suicide (or worse). The poor bloke has had his relationship analyzed and picked apart to the nth degree in the past months. Fair enough but maybe time to move on.

Totally agree. But to be blunt, every time I see a comment insinuating DC is in some way controlling her or, as Investigator said

I think she looked scared.

I am thinking maybe not an argument for suicide but that they are insinuating something else (that is against the terms of this website) , and I feel honour bound to counter it.

Yes time to move on I hope but whenever I see it I will challenge it.

 

[otto]

She had been up to Pic De Sauvegarde the day before, plus from pictures it seems the right trail is well marked, so the theory she mixed up the lakes and climbed a wrong peak by accident makes no sense, IMO.

If I could find her comment about getting lost on the trail and accidentally following animal trails shortly before her disappearance I would post it. That comment gives some context. Hopefully the person who originally posted the comment will share it again.

I'm not saying that she climbed the wrong peak. Indeed, she would have climbed the correct Pic de la Glere using the wrong lake as a clue regarding the route.

I'm just trying to understand how she ended up where she did.

There's no evidence that she was at the Refuge de Venasque. If she stayed overnight at Refuge de Venasque, as Dan has repeatedly pointed out, she would have had access to wifi within 30 minutes of the refuge. Yet, there was no contact on the morning of Nov 23.

On Nov 22, she told her partner that she was still in the same area, and that she planned to hike to Port de la Glere the following day. She said that she might dip into France and she hoped the Refuge de Venasque had a Winter room. That is the order of information she shared.

She did not say that upon descending the Pic de Sauvegarde at 4:30PM on Nov 22 that she would enter France, overnight at the Refuge de Venasque, spend the day hiking in France and return to Spain via Port de la Glere.

All of this leads me to believe that Nov 22 overnight, she remained in Spain. The following day, she hiked directly to Port de la Glere. Somewhere around the Port de la Glere, something went wrong and she ended up near the Pic de la Glere - which was not on her intended route.

 

[fridaybaker]

To clarify the location of the correct lake and the wrong lake, I've created map that shows the larger context.

Red Arrow = approximate body location just across the border, dipping into France.

View attachment 308593

Close up of the correct lake and the wrong lake.

White dashed lines = the wrong lake
Yellow dashed line = correct lake

View attachment 308594

The white dashed line starts at the wrong lake, but hiking that unmarked route could leave Esther near the location where she may have fallen.

View attachment 308595

Otto, fascinating thought about how a mistake could be made due to using a small map version.

Thanks for all your work here. This clarification helps paint the picture. Such a small mistake. Such dire consequences!

 

[otto]

Otto, fascinating thought about how a mistake could be made due to using a small map version.

Thanks for all your work here. This clarification helps paint the picture. Such a small mistake. Such dire consequences!

It's one possibility to explain how she ended up in the wrong place; a particularly dangerous place given the time of year and lack for proper climbing equipment. It does fit with the discussions we've had surrounding what type of maps she used, and using phone maps to navigate.

 

[OEJ-JEO]

If I could find her comment about getting lost on the trail and accidentally following animal trails shortly before her disappearance I would post it. That comment gives some context. Hopefully the person who originally posted the comment will share it again.

I think the source was this Instagram post:

Login • Instagram

"... although on this hike I wasn't climbing my way up snow and ice, I was struggling with a different challenge, disappearing paths and confusing goat/sheep tracks taking me of track and finding myself continually have to stop to check the map and haul myself up the mountainside to get back on track. My self doubt in my decision to try was increasing each time I found myself off track. But with my thru-hiking pack on my back I gained confidence that everything I needed to survive was with me, whether cold, wet or hungry!"

 

[Owlpellet]

On Nov 22, she told her partner that she was still in the same area, and that she planned to hike to Port de la Glere the following day. She said that she might dip into France and she hoped the Refuge de Venasque had a Winter room. That is the order of information she shared.

She did not say that upon descending the Pic de Sauvegarde at 4:30PM on Nov 22 that she would enter France, overnight at the Refuge de Venasque, spend the day hiking in France and return to Spain via Port de la Glere.

And yet that seems to be what DC and the male hiker she met believed she was going to do- the anti-clockwise loop. We only have a partial selection of the texts and none of the details of the phone calls with DC and family members where she shared further info. I believe that she went with her (5 days of supplies?) down to Refuge de Venasque, then on towards Hospital de France, possibly taking a shortcut, and then to Porte de la Glère.

ETA ...I go for this, partly I suppose because it was a beautiful walk as I’ve seen from the guide books... it makes sense to me that this would have been her journey rather than the other ones suggested.

 

[RickshawFan]

Awaiting factual analyses. That said, I am reminded of a couple in the US Peace Corps in the mid to late 1960s , who were 1 day away from permanent return to the US ("home" in the Midwest). The woman was ambivalent/conflicted about a permanent return after almost 6 years working in an idyllic part of the world (teaching life skills etc to a smaller village). She however did not disclose her ambivalence to her partner. On the morning of the return flight she disappeared. Eventually she was found wandering alone in a remote area of the near countryside. Allegedly, the Peace Corps officially stated she had a nervous breakdown. Unofficially, it is believed she could not face returning to an ordinary American Midwestern lifestyle after 6 years of bliss doing her own thing unconventionally. She could not handle what she thought/assumed would be demands on her upon return. How would she support herself, what would she do in life going forward, etc etc.There are layers and layers of emotional pressure she certainly felt that effected her judgment ultimately. All sorts of possible scenarios. In this case, it also was not good ending. Loss of control is part of the equation according
to experts. She would lose control over her life's direction, in her mind ,upon return to the US.
Have no idea if the foregoing is relevant.

That's a great example. I have a feeling it happens several times a year, and is factored into Peace Corps general operations. I'll bet they even have specific staff assigned to that kind of issue. As you mention, it's not just a mental health thing. Sometimes it's about life realities.
I've known Peace Corps in this situation.
I see ED in this light, too. The one key difference: the Peace Corps members are on a journey where they're given great responsibility, very young. They are often out there, sometimes miles away, in alien environments, expected to execute stuff that's not easy. They have to be creative and resourceful. They feel effective. When they come back? Back to being twenty-somethings (many of them).
ED wasn't in that situation. Hers was almost the opposite. She would be coming from a world of no pressure or expectation (i.e. Alps) and expected to be an "adult heading to 40". From my recollection, that would be EXTREMELY painful.

 

[RickshawFan]

To clarify the location of the correct lake and the wrong lake, I've created map that shows the larger context.

Red Arrow = approximate body location just across the border, dipping into France.

View attachment 308593

Close up of the correct lake and the wrong lake.

White dashed lines = the wrong lake
Yellow dashed line = correct lake

View attachment 308594

The white dashed line starts at the wrong lake, but hiking that unmarked route could leave Esther near the location where she may have fallen.

View attachment 308595

@otto In this scenario, are you saying ED was hiking up from the Cabane (actually above the Hôpital) to the PortdelaG, took the wrong trail, and ended up on the east flank of PicdelaG instead of the west?

I can't even imagine approaching the PicdelaG from the east.

She could have just re-traced her steps if she had it wrong and found the next terrain impassable? Maybe she'd have to hole up for the night, but she prolly had enough to survive?

 

[otto]

I think the source was this Instagram post:

Login • Instagram

"... although on this hike I wasn't climbing my way up snow and ice, I was struggling with a different challenge, disappearing paths and confusing goat/sheep tracks taking me of track and finding myself continually have to stop to check the map and haul myself up the mountainside to get back on track. My self doubt in my decision to try was increasing each time I found myself off track. But with my thru-hiking pack on my back I gained confidence that everything I needed to survive was with me, whether cold, wet or hungry!"

That's it. Thank you!

She explains that she sometimes has difficulty navigating marked paths. She experiences disappearing paths that merge with animal trails. She admits that she doubts herself regarding routes, stopping to check maps, discovering that she made mistakes.

She doesn't say that turned back, she says that she hauls herself up the mountain to get back on track.

She's confident that even though she may go off track, she's well equipped to handle an off-route situation.

It is remarks like this that allow me to question whether she was off-route near the Pic de la Glere, hauled herself up the mountain to find the route, and found herself on a steep ridge.

It's not inconceivable when considering the big picture. One of the main landmarks for the trail to the Port de la Glere from Spain is the second large lake. Perhaps from the ground, the first large lake seemed like the second large lake and the small nearby lake seemed like the first lake. Perhaps she mistook the Pic de la Glere for the Pic Sacroux.

 

[otto]

@otto In this scenario, are you saying ED was hiking up from the Cabane (actually above the Hopital) to the PortdelaG, took the wrong trail, and ended up on the east flank of PicdelaG instead of the west?

I'm definitely wondering whether that happened - especially if she did not hike all the way down to the Hospital de Benasque to find the trail to the Port de la Glere.

 

[RickshawFan]

...the male hiker she met believed she was going to do- the anti-clockwise loop.

Snipped for focus

I haven't seen this belief from a "male hiker she met." AFAIK DC was the only one insisting on the RdeVenasque/Hospice route. Even LE/SAR shortly didn't go along with that, after finding no evidence on that route, since they searched for miles and miles in December, including at the Maladeta Glacier. Would you mind elaborating on who the man was, what he said, and cite a source?