CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death remote hiking area, Aug 2021

[oceanstarryeyes]

How has heat stroke been determined during autopsy on other victims?

60-year-old San Francisco hiker dies in Death Valley; heatstroke suspected | KTLA

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

FWIW, a knowledgeable insider on the Philip Kreycik thread just posted that he died of "Classical" not "Exertional" Heatstroke. I would have assumed, wrongly, that it was his exertion. It was the heat, plain and simple. However, his exertion (exercise) got him far enough away from his car that when the heat attacked, he was beyond help, as were the Gerrish-Chungs. I believe the baby and dog are the keys here. Both more sensitive to heat than the adults, but all of them in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[Countem]

RSBM

Wouldn't they be vomitting in case the toxic algae was the cause of the death? Besides, it seems to be doubtful they would have died so soon and simultaneously.

There is a good article here about toxic algae and the multitude of symptoms that it can cause including diarrhea, vomiting, headaches, and neurological conditions such as dizziness and muscle weakness.

https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article253636158.html

While they may have vomited if they had drank water with toxic algae, it could have been earlier down the trail, depending on where they started feeling ill (if they got ill at all, since we don’t know their causes of death). I don’t believe that the toxic algae alone would have caused all of their deaths, but that, if they were exposed to it, it could have been a contributing factor along with the excessive heat.

All JMO, MOO.

 

[Officer Dibble]

Respectfully, I believe that Mariposa County Sheriff Jeremy Briese would take exception to him guessing about this investigation but rather that he's executing a by-the-book law enforcement investigation, excluding information by a methodical, process. MOO

Let me word that more precisely <modsnip> . IMo He is taking into account it could be Algae but needs more expert help, and finding experts in Algae toxicity could take a few days.

 

[annpats]

The more I read about it, the more I'm leaning towards heatstroke. Philip Kreycik also died while out exercising in high California temperatures and he also died of heatstroke, yet was supposedly used to the heat and almost an ultra-runner.

I'm wondering if Jonathan and his wife, living in the area, just thought that it'd all be OK (as they were on other hikes) and this time just underestimated the heat, their ability, and it all ended in a terrible unfortunate accident.

Philip Kreycik also underestimated the heat and terrain and the quickly deadly effect it can have.

Many people do underestimate things. Many people pass away in national parks and difficult terrain both in the summer heat and the winter cold. It can even go wrong for the pro-level people, nevermind a normal family.

Even getting lost by just few hundred metres, then having to go back can add another km (or mile) to your route. You'll be out in the heat longer, working your body even more than planned. And then that could tip you over into heat exhaustion, or even heat stroke.

 

[Officer Dibble]

The probability of all three people and the dog dying of heat stroke simultaneously must be astronomical. Same for some fatal toxic algae event.

But anything is possible...¯\_(ツ)_/¯

What if, just supposing, Mum had run back to car for help but didn't have a phone signal there and realised she didn't have the car keys, so ran back to get the car keys then finding a terrible scene was heading back towards help/car/civilisation? JMO MOO

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

that's been my theory for awhile because I briefly experienced a similar thing when our son was about 18 months. That is why I have been leaning towards this because I was told by the doctor that babies are very vulnerable to heat exhaustion and it can easily be overlooked because you think they are napping...

@katydid23 I woke up this morning remembering a hike I sent my son on when he was 8 years old. We were in Mexico at a mountain lodge, very remote in the Copper Canyon area. It was spring, not hot but very mild that morning. My husband was going hiking with a guide and some other men, and I foolishly sent my son with them. At the end of the day, the men returned, carrying my son. He had vomited and was faint. At the time, I assumed dehydration, so we quickly urged him to drink water, and we put him to bed. The mountains cooled considerably at night. He slept deeply and long. For a week after, he was not quite himself but eventually recovered. I tell this story because we as parents do learn parenting by trial and error-- and sometime the errors are catastrophic. Reading about Phil Kreycik I now believe my son suffered a heat-related event, as a child keeping up with men on a strenuous hike up a barren mountain in the middle of the day. I had totally forgotten the incident. Thank God, he's now 35!

 

[Speculaytor]

What if, just supposing, Mum had run back to car for help but didn't have a phone signal there and realised she didn't have the car keys, so ran back to get the car keys then finding a terrible scene was heading back towards help/car/civilisation? JMO MOO

VERY possible scenario right here!!

 

[MizStery]

Rain Check and fellow Webseluths posters the Daily Mail has updated their website to credit Fox News with the following information “Deaths of Brit Google engineer, wife, baby and dog during California hike are now NOT being treated as murder: Mystery as police say autopsy failed to reveal answers” In the link below I linked the Daily Mail article. There are several photos of the family and a maps.

The sheriff says they are no longer considering homicide and are confident they can rule it out as cause of death . They probably arent considering heat stroke because they still had plenty of water and the autopsies would have shown signs of hyperthermia like cerebral edema, visceral petechial hemorrhages, subendocardial hemorrhages, and hepatocyte necrosis.
California authorities relying on dog's autopsy, other forensics for answers in family's mysterious deaths

Deaths of Brit Google engineer, wife, baby and dog during California hike are now NOT being treated as murder: Mystery as police say autopsy failed to reveal answers and it will be WEEKS until they get toxicology results
By HENRY MARTIN FOR MAILONLINE

PUBLISHED: 06:45 EDT, 22 August 2021 | UPDATED: 09:39 EDT, 22 August 2021

The Marisopa County Sheriff's Office is now ruling out homicide in the hiking trail deaths, Fox News reports. Spokeswoman Kristie Mitchell said: 'Initially, yes, when we come across a family with no apparent cause of death, there's no smoking gun, there's no suicide note, there's nothing like that, we have to consider all options.

Deaths of Google engineer, wife, baby and dog during hike are now NOT being treated as murder | Daily Mail Online

 

[CharadeYouAre]

How can they rule out homicide if they don't have tox results?

 

[Knox]

Police should let the public know whether outgoing calls were attempted. That would put an end to a lot of speculation about annihilation (which I have contributed to, because we just don’t know)! Calls will show up as attempted even without service (recall the horrible Dutch girl/night photos case, where a log of outgoing calls in a jungle with no reception showed they tried to contact emergency services).

This was my point yesterday, I'm aware there was no service in the area. But one of them still could have tried to call 911 or send a text message.
Mariposa County Sheriff’s Office Now Able to Accept Emergency Text Messages
How long until they receive cell phone records?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A family friend says Ellen Chung and Jonathan Gerrish went missing with their child and family dog.

The last contact was a photo they uploaded Sunday at 6:45 a.m. of the baby backpack they take with them.
Entire family reported missing, later found dead in Mariposa County

Curious about the last contact, it's oddly worded. What was the context of the photo I wonder, was the baby in the backpack? Facebook, IG?

 

[Knox]

FWIW, a knowledgeable insider on the Philip Kreycik thread just posted that he died of "Classical" not "Exertional" Heatstroke. I would have assumed, wrongly, that it was his exertion. It was the heat, plain and simple. However, his exertion (exercise) got him far enough away from his car that when the heat attacked, he was beyond help, as were the Gerrish-Chungs. I believe the baby and dog are the keys here. Both more sensitive to heat than the adults, but all of them in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Thank you for this, I followed initially, but didn't keep up. Where was Philip's body found in relation to the trail he was running?

The beneficial thing in this case, the family was found quickly. So unlike Philip who was found weeks later. I would assume it will be easier in some ways to determine COD?

 

[katydid23]

Thank you for this, I followed initially, but didn't keep up. Where was Philip's body found in relation to the trail he was running?

The beneficial thing in this case, the family was found quickly. So unlike Philip who was found weeks later. I would assume it will be easier in some ways to determine COD?

IIRC, Phillip had gone off the main trial, looking for shade under some tall brush.

 

[happyday]

How has heat stroke been determined during autopsy on other victims?

60-year-old San Francisco hiker dies in Death Valley; heatstroke suspected | KTLA

From the article I posted earlier, it sounded like a process of elimination along with circumstantial factors—like if they were in hot temps for a long time etc…Along with any signs that typically can go along with heat stroke, I would imagine?

 

[tarabull]

More questions than answers after autopsy of family found dead

 

[annpats]

At least now we know the dog was a Golden Retriever.
They're quite big with a hairy coat, so that definitely would've been a negative in the heat. Especially as dogs can't regulate their temperatures through sweating like humans can.

Entire family reported missing, later found dead in Mariposa County

 

[Auntie Cipation]

One question I have is whether the location of dad/baby/dog would have been in shade midday or early afternoon.

Also how much farther up the hill was mom?

I suspect, like others have mentioned, that it started with either the dog or the baby in distress. (if baby, heat, if dog, either heat or algae water from creek, or even rattler bite or stinging insects)

They stop in the shade (if there is shade) to rest and try to help. But just like with Phil Kreycik, that's not enough. Heat then starts to affect everyone. Mom sets out to try to get help and only gets however far up the hill before heat stops her too.

Autopsy of the dog may be key in offering clues here.

MOO

 

[NSamuelle]

How can they rule out homicide if they don't have tox results?

I’m confused as well. I think it’s extremely unlikely that a 3rd party poisoned their water source (how would they get to it, why, etc.) or poisoned/attacked them on the trail without leaving marks on bodies and blood under the dog’s nails, etc. But if it was a murder-suicide via poisoning, that’s a “homicide.”

I don’t think the heatstroke theories are crazy but I just don’t see it with the proximity of the bodies and the background of the victims. If it was heatstroke, it means that two experienced hikers made a very bad decision. That’s different from blaming them for their own demise, which I don’t - everyone makes mistakes; but a Red Cross instructor, health nut, and adventurer seem unlikely to make a fatal mistake that would be spelled out in the weather forecast.

Other theories we have considered:
- toxic algae (I’ll see what articles I can find but algae isn’t an instanteanous death; it might have incapacitated them enough to make them vulnerable to the elements, dehydration, etc., but onset is not that fast in adults).
- lightning (cool theory, but wouldn’t you have marks on the body? If anyone can find a case of lightning strikes not leaving a mark, that would be helpful. Otherwise I think this is ruled out).
- CO - No. The nearest mine was 3 miles away and a carboxyhemoglobin test would be back by now.

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

Temperature on the date of their hike was 102F. Past Weather in South Fork Devils Gulch, California, USA — Yesterday or Further Back

Why would two apparently rational adults who were somewhat experienced hikers, even consider taking a 1-year old infant and dog on what is reportedly a fairly challenging (steep) hike through largely inhospitable terrain in such conditions?!?

Esp when the death of a fit trail runner on steep hills due to high heat was recently all over the news in Cali?

 

[Satchie]

How has heat stroke been determined during autopsy on other victims?

60-year-old San Francisco hiker dies in Death Valley; heatstroke suspected | KTLA

In that link, it appears there's an eyewitness who encountered the hiker and tried to give aid, and called 911.

Or perhaps the man called 911 himself, and the 911 operator interviewed him. But by the time LE got there, he'd died.

Whatever the interactions before he died, the hiker apparently didn't complain of being attacked, bitten by a rattlesnake, drinking bad water, having chest pains, etc. He'd have spoken about his symptoms and behaved as though he was experiencing heat exhaustion/ stroke.

JMO