Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #5

[SaintGertrude]

View attachment 310268
Found this too, 1993
Europeans pray and plan for church in Luxembourg | The Christian Chronicle[/QUOTE]
I cannot see Luxembourg mentioned in the link. Marion wasn't a religious person although she did stay for a church weekend away a couple of years before she vanished as per podcast and last dance video on youtube. I think that had its roots in Worldwide church of God.

 

[KiwiNZ]

Found where the Colonial Bank's mentioned in the podcast, A Tangled Web (Episode 13) at around 27.45 minutes. Clever find JLZ, the Colonial BSB. So 56 Jonson Street was the original Colonial State Bank and the Commonwealth moved in there after the takeover. In the podcast Sally says the bank had moved, so would this confirm it was the Commonwealth Bank she went in?

I am sure there was a video of her showing the place she went into when it was a bank, but I can not find it on you tube, very frustrating lol

 

[Itsapuzzle]

View attachment 310268
Found this too, 1993
Europeans pray and plan for church in Luxembourg | The Christian Chronicle

I cannot see Luxembourg mentioned in the link. Marion wasn't a religious person although she did stay for a church weekend away a couple of years before she vanished as per podcast and last dance video on youtube. I think that had its roots in Worldwide church of God.[/QUOTE]

It's mentioned here Saint Gertrude — “Churches of Christ begin worship in Luxembourg, announced a front-page headline in The Christian Chronicle in 1993." I just found it interesting ...... so, we have 1993 Church of Christ coming to Luxembourg .... 1994 we have an ad in Lennox Head paper by someone whose surname is connected with Luxembourg, then in 1997 Church of Christ gets registered at Lennox Head - h'mm ...could the Monsieur Remakel ad have been placed by a zealot, under cover of romance, not looking for love but looking for funds, per chance? Just a random wacky thought

 

[SaintGertrude]

I cannot see Luxembourg mentioned in the link. Marion wasn't a religious person although she did stay for a church weekend away a couple of years before she vanished as per podcast and last dance video on youtube. I think that had its roots in Worldwide church of God.

It's mentioned here Saint Gertrude — “Churches of Christ begin worship in Luxembourg, announced a front-page headline in The Christian Chronicle in 1993." I just found it interesting ...... so, we have 1993 Church of Christ coming to Luxembourg .... 1994 we have an ad in Lennox Head paper by someone whose surname is connected with Luxembourg, then in 1997 Church of Christ gets registered at Lennox Head - h'mm ...could the Monsieur Remakel ad have been placed by a zealot, under cover of romance, not looking for love but looking for funds, per chance? Just a random wacky thought [/QUOTE]
Interesting thought. It was an offshoot of Herbert W Armstrong church where Marion stayed for a weekend a year or so before her vanishing. The United Church of God was formed due to a split in 1995 due to doctrinal issues. I will need to look more into the Church of Christ you mention to see if that has any connection.

 

[Curiosity Cat]

Japan's 'evaporated people' have become an obsession for this French couple

Note the name Stephane Remael.


The above link takes one to an interesting read. I for one think Marion chose to leave. So I have been curious about different methods and perhaps organisations or individuals who have the skills to assist or implement it.
It's a jumping off point to me as far as ideas go.
Do these things exist in Australia?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xVc_AdJoAVs&ved=2ahUKEwj408eJitHyAhWs3jgGHfMECSsQwqsBegQIKxAF&usg=AOvVaw0TVjPomVSg0_3NbUhEk-mw

 

[SaintGertrude]

View attachment 310268
Found this too, 1993
Europeans pray and plan for church in Luxembourg | The Christian Chronicle[/QUOTE]
The leader of this particular church lives in Verviers, Belgium. It is the French speaking part of the country. The upper area of the building in Verviers is used for a learning centre for students from Freed Hardeman college.
I think the church originates from Sand Springs in the United States rather than Australia.

 

[Bagpus]

She wouldn't have legally been able to get married in the UK. You have to travel on a fiancee visa to marry, not allowed on a tourist one. And you have to give notice a set number of days ahead.

I think this is another of the "marion telling lies" scenarios - divorced, married, separated, single - meh, what will I write today?

Does anyone know for sure what kind of visa she had?

The notice period required for marriage may explain why she spent that amount of time in the UK before returning.

I remain convinced, at this stage, that her disappearance had something to do with her unfounded shame at getting married for a fourth time.

In such a vulnerable state, anything could have happened.

 

[Bagpus]

Haven't thought of this case in a year or so, but I have a new theory. It struck me reading the brilliant Time Line on page 11 which suddenly made Marion make sense to me.

FWIW. . . .

Spring 1997 - Marion has an affair she keeps from family, friends, colleagues. Maybe he's married, maybe he's abuse. Marion knows what the family thinks of her infatuations and failed marriages, so she is loathe to open herself to criticism. She is reassured that Sally is marrying, and Owen is old enough to take care of himself. The rocky relationship gets rockier. Sally sees Marion with this man.

early Summer 1997 - Fed up and wanting to extricate herself or to punish the lover, Marion ends the affair and to make sure she doesn't give in to him, she plans to leave Australia. She changes her name impetuously, sells her house, and leaves the man behind.

UK Summer 1997 - Marion gets what she wants. The man begs her to come back. Marion resists but then capitulates. Last thing she does is call Sally, maybe even wistfully. She can tell Sally everything once the relationship is concrete and things work out.

August 1997 - Marion returns to Australia. The man turns up the pressure either emotionally or criminally, and Marion withdraws her money. She either can't contact her family or she is too humiliated that her grand tour never happened, and she still hopes the man will make good his promises. She's trapped.

Late 1997 - By the end of the year, Marion is dead. The man makes off with her money. His wife or accomplice phones police about the body.

What's different for me about this theory is that UK and Europe are innocent. The danger was all in Australia. What if Marion was trying to get away but then gave in and returned?

The Time Line is brilliant. Now I'll go back and catch up. Thanks for listening!

That seems plausible to me.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

The Church in Luxembourg is very intriguing to me. The weekend Marion spent at a church retreat could have sowed a small seed or connected her with someone(s) who stayed or returned to her life. That's a great find, imo. As I listened to the Inquest episodes, I thought more and more about Marion's shame in her family over men. "Marryin' Marion." And yet she was compelled to find a man at any cost. I don't think I've ever even heard Luxembourg mentioned in my life, and then suddenly all these references. We recently watched a detective series produced in Luxembourg, and I had to look up the country's location.

 

[SaintGertrude]

The Church in Luxembourg is very intriguing to me. The weekend Marion spent at a church retreat could have sowed a small seed or connected her with someone(s) who stayed or returned to her life. That's a great find, imo. As I listened to the Inquest episodes, I thought more and more about Marion's shame in her family over men. "Marryin' Marion." And yet she was compelled to find a man at any cost. I don't think I've ever even heard Luxembourg mentioned in my life, and then suddenly all these references. We recently watched a detective series produced in Luxembourg, and I had to look up the country's location.

The United Church of God who I understand are the group Marion spent the weekend retreat with a few years prior to vanishing have no Luxembourg connections only Belgium. The former classroom assistant is involved with this particular denominatiom and to this day is most surprised that Marion disappeared. She is interviewed in the podcast.

 

[SaintGertrude]

Japan's 'evaporated people' have become an obsession for this French couple

Note the name Stephane Remael.


The above link takes one to an interesting read. I for one think Marion chose to leave. So I have been curious about different methods and perhaps organisations or individuals who have the skills to assist or implement it.
It's a jumping off point to me as far as ideas go.
Do these things exist in Australia?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xVc_AdJoAVs&ved=2ahUKEwj408eJitHyAhWs3jgGHfMECSsQwqsBegQIKxAF&usg=AOvVaw0TVjPomVSg0_3NbUhEk-mw

Thanks Curiosity Cat, I am watching the youtube link you shared with us all now and finding it most interesting. You may have hit the nail on the head that Marion paid someone to help her vanish into thin air. And the name of the person as well. He graduated from Art High School in Brussels.
The Lady Vanishes podcast mentions that Marion has a cousin in Japan. There is nothing else which I can think of that would link Marion to any Asian countries.

 

[SaintGertrude]

*Duplicate*

 

[SaintGertrude]

The companies that help people vanish

 

[Curiosity Cat]

Does anyone know for sure what kind of visa she had?

The notice period required for marriage may explain why she spent that amount of time in the UK before returning.



I remain convinced, at this stage, that her disappearance had something to do with her unfounded shame at getting married for a fourth time.

In such a vulnerable state, anything could have happened.

Yes Bagpuss, Marion would have been embarrassed at a fourth marriage. Imagine what her father might have said. Especially if the new husband was of another nationality. I feel the parents may have been critical of that. But that's my opinion only.

 

[Curiosity Cat]

Yes Bagpuss, Marion would have been embarrassed at a fourth marriage. Imagine what her father might have said. Especially if the new husband was of another nationality. I feel the parents may have been critical of that. But that's my opinion only.

It may sound random, but Marion could have popped over to Japan to get married en route to the UK. If she did get married. It's so easy and quick to get married there. Check out my earlier post. She would not have been able to get married in the UK.

 

[SaintGertrude]

Inside the Industry of Companies Helping People Vanish

 

[JLZ]

Found where the Colonial Bank's mentioned in the podcast, A Tangled Web (Episode 13) at around 27.45 minutes. Clever find JLZ, the Colonial BSB. So 56 Jonson Street was the original Colonial State Bank and the Commonwealth moved in there after the takeover. In the podcast Sally says the bank had moved, so would this confirm it was the Commonwealth Bank she went in?

The streetscape changed a lot between 2008 and 2019 (earliest and latest Google streetviews). Commonwealth Bank has moved down one building to what looks like a completely new building replacing some old shops; and the building where the Commonwealth Bank used to be has been painted and looks pretty different. So although the move is such a short distance, I can understand Sally being struck by it and perhaps not even realizing it was the same section of the shopping strip--depending on which dates she's talking about.

Google Maps
Google Maps

 

[Itsapuzzle]

The streetscape changed a lot between 2008 and 2019 (earliest and latest Google streetviews). Commonwealth Bank has moved down one building to what looks like a completely new building replacing some old shops; and the building where the Commonwealth Bank used to be has been painted and looks pretty different. So although the move is such a short distance, I can understand Sally being struck by it and perhaps not even realizing it was the same section of the shopping strip--depending on which dates she's talking about.

Google Maps
Google Maps

Thanks JLZ. I'm still confused about the bank, haha ..... so Sally remembered going into the old Commonwealth Bank location in 1997, and she described how it was set out, and the Commonwealth banker agreed with her, so it must have been the Comm Bank she went into. Has anyone been able to find the CBA's address at Byron Bay in 1997? In A Tangled Web Episode 13 around 28.23 Sally mentions the location of the bank had actually changed "it's actually a different bank, it used to be up there" - it's pretty important to find out which bank she went in because we've heard in the podcast the manager/teller basically seemed to recognise the photo and seemed a bit "shifty" - (my words) Were they shifty, or was it just the wrong bank? I can't figure it out

 

[Curiosity Cat]

Thanks JLZ. I'm still confused about the bank, haha ..... so Sally remembered going into the old Commonwealth Bank location in 1997, and she described how it was set out, and the Commonwealth banker agreed with her, so it must have been the Comm Bank she went into. Has anyone been able to find the CBA's address at Byron Bay in 1997? In A Tangled Web Episode 13 around 28.23 Sally mentions the location of the bank had actually changed "it's actually a different bank, it used to be up there" - it's pretty important to find out which bank she went in because we've heard in the podcast the manager/teller basically seemed to recognise the photo and seemed a bit "shifty" - (my words) Were they shifty, or was it just the wrong bank? I can't figure it out

I'm with you itsapuzzle. Just what bank did they go to? Apparently Marion wasn't banking Commonwealth then. So what would they know. I don't think it all that strange that the bank officer asked what would you like me to tell he if I see her.

 

[Estelle]

Does anyone know for sure what kind of visa she had?

The notice period required for marriage may explain why she spent that amount of time in the UK before returning.

I remain convinced, at this stage, that her disappearance had something to do with her unfounded shame at getting married for a fourth time.

In such a vulnerable state, anything could have happened.

Marion would not have needed a visa if she was only going to the UK and Europe as a tourist. Also IMO she only did layovers on the way there and way home.

It often sounds to me as if Marion almost would have married any man!