CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #3

[RedHaus]

Has anyone else considered this family didn’t all leave for the hike together? what if LE believe their hike began in the afternoon because one stayed behind? An argument, sickness, phone call could all be reasons one Stays behind but it does feel sinister. Like one parent questions the whereabouts of the other and upon searching (afternoon) stumbles across something utterly shattering

Interesting idea, @MrsColumbo79. But we'd have to reconcile the photo of the two adults in their truck heading in the direction of the trail head at 7:45am.

I've been wondering though about the hike start time discrepancies from LE... afternoon? mid morning?. Might, as some have wondered previously (IIRC) the family have gone somewhere else first? Could they have hiked another nearby trail or explored a mine in the area before they parked their truck where it was found? Might they have gotten in trouble somewhere else and for some reason ended up there?

But your idea also got me thinking about if one adult may have hung back in the truck. Perhaps, for instance EC was having cramps (i.e. menstrual) and just wanted to relax for some reason. Or perhaps she was otherwise incompacitated. So JG went on with babe and dog with the plan to meet, at
say down by the river. But the first group simply didn't make it. And then EC came across them when she eventually hiked down, only to eventually be overcome herself on her way back to get help, maybe?

That's a lot of speculative ideas. But your concept triggered new thoughts.

 

[UltraViolet4545]

One thing bothering me is the dog leashed to dad and unable to get away. Why not let him loose? As a dog owner, that would be my first instinct if the heat/something was getting to me. A hairy dog like that would almost certainly be unable to continue on before the humans. You wouldn’t sit there with an incapacitated dog tied to you. MOO, something either struck down the adults first or everyone at once.

 

[EndoraXplorer]

Since there's no new info as of yet today, I thought I'd share an interesting oped from the SF Chronicle aka SF Gate: What California hikers who have gone missing have in common

Mostly, it's about solo hikers, though it mentions this case. But two bits especially resonated with me:

• "From what search-and-rescue leaders are seeing, people who go missing in the outdoors here [in California] tend to have experience but somehow have gotten in over their heads..."
  
• "In quite a few of those cases, the hikers have gotten into dangerous situations not because they lack experience... but because their deep level of experience led them to feel more comfortable taking risks."

I don't know if this was true here, or not. Just food for thought as I keep obsessing.

 

[Rocky Mountain Hi]

What enjoyment would a baby get out of a long, brutal hike that would be worth the heat risk and added exertion of carrying her? They had the means to leave her with a sitter; obviously we all wish they had.

I don't think they were thinking about the baby's enjoyment, how the baby would feel out in that heat for hours, or even one hour. (But again, we need to know if they'd taken her out with them on their hike the previous week, in similar temps, or not.).

They may have been thinking about exploring a new approach (SL trail) to a trail they knew from prior hikes (H.Cove trail), maybe about scoping out a mine or two, and enjoying the river (if they didn't know about the algae warning). In relation to the baby, they were probably enthusiastic about following their goal to raise her "in nature", and starting her out young in getting her used to accompanying them on hikes. Their dream probably involved hiking becoming second-nature to her at an early age. You know, like how Mongols living a traditional lifestyle raise their kids in the saddle from toddlerhood.

Clearly, it didn't dawn on them that a 1-year-old had underdeveloped heat regulation mechanisms, and would wilt in the heat in short order. Or if mom might have voiced a concern, JG's enthusiastic persuasion might have overruled her judgement. (Speculation alert!) We'll never know. I wonder if they ever asked their pediatrician his opinion of taking her along on hikes.

 

[brookellen10]

I agree. With the evidence released so far, nothing gives the appearance that there was any distress or that they realized the threat. Phone in pocket, baby still in carrier, dog still on leash, all grouped together.

The lack of any evidence of distress suggests something swift and without any warning.

One thing bothering me is the dog leashed to dad and unable to get away. Why not let him loose? As a dog owner, that would be my first instinct if the heat/something was getting to me. A hairy dog like that would almost certainly be unable to continue on before the humans. You wouldn’t sit there with an incapacitated dog tied to you. MOO, something either struck down the adults first or everyone at once.

 

[Officer Dibble]

Has anyone else considered this family didn’t all leave for the hike together? what if LE believe their hike began in the afternoon because one stayed behind? An argument, sickness, phone call could all be reasons one Stays behind but it does feel sinister. Like one parent questions the whereabouts of the other and upon searching (afternoon) stumbles across something utterly shattering

Not one I've read about yet but good theory.

 

[Rocky Mountain Hi]

That's not what I said about the causes of deaths.
They were down by the stream and went around coming back over uphill.
This is an evident case of change in altitude causing them all kinds of breathing problems and were fighting with deprivation of oxygen as they were heading up.
We got to also consider the atmospheric pressure on them as they climbed up.
Some feel the altitude pressure quicker than others. It doesn't matter how high the altitude is, it's all about the location and the route they've taken coming up from down near the stream.
Remember this is with intense heat and lot of baggages, coming out of the "gulch" region.
There were also no trees from forest fire several years ago,
has anyone measured the oxygen level where they hiked and atmospheric pressure level?
That's the first thing I'd do.

Interesting point about the lack of trees altering the oxygen supply on the trail. Though it's been at least two years since the fire, and people have hiked the trail in that time (there were notes on AllTrails, weren't there?), but then again, we don't know if they experienced symptoms of one sort or another on their hikes.

Dumb question maybe, but...do evergreen trees produce as much oxygen as broadleaf trees? Needles, vs. leaves?

 

[lotus777]

I agree. With the evidence released so far, nothing gives the appearance that there was any distress or that they realized the threat. Phone in pocket, baby still in carrier, dog still on leash, all grouped together.

The lack of any evidence of distress suggests something swift and without any warning.

What kind of evidence of distress would you expect? Ellen being 30 yards away, farther up on the trail, indicates she was going for help or knew she had to get out of the situation.

 

[woods]

I agree. With the evidence released so far, nothing gives the appearance that there was any distress or that they realized the threat. Phone in pocket, baby still in carrier, dog still on leash, all grouped together.

The lack of any evidence of distress suggests something swift and without any warning.

It has not been confirmed if the dog was on a leash or not.

 

[abanddb123]

I hope LE are checking out the content of their water supplies and food. Other than being inclosed and dying of heat exhaustion, is there other cases of more than one person dying of heat exhaustion, all at similar times and out in the open? Mom had a tbi. Wonder if she had any post partem? Just questions and my own opinion.

 

[annpats]

I hope LE are checking out the content of their water supplies and food.

I would think that would be standard practice....

 

[woods]

is there other cases of more than one person dying of heat exhaustion, all at similar times and out in the open?

1) 2 male hikers experiencing delirium both die from exposure to the heat

Two other hikers tried to offer one of the men drinking water shortly before he died, but the man refused it -- a likely sign of heat exposure

Two hikers discovered a second man about 300 feet farther along the trail "screaming and yelling hysterically and refusing water they offered,"

As the two hikers approached the second man, he ran.

"They tried to give him water, he was running around in circles, they said, and he ran away,”

"That is the classical symptom of heat exposure," Bassett said, adding that the men had stripped their clothes off along the trail.

No water, food or other supplies were found near the men, he said.

The area in which the men died is about a mile from the start of the Gold Strike trail, which is near the Hacienda hotel-casino on U.S. 93.
2 hikers die from exposure to heat

2) A hiking couple by the names of Gen Miake & his wife, Kathie Barber, were found dead, just 100 yards from each other.

The couple was in the open desert with no shade and the temperature was estimated at 113 degrees.
Hikers Found Dead In Mojave Desert ID'ed As Yorba Linda Couple
3) Two tourists killed by heat stroke after getting out of car to go for help in California desert | Daily Mail Online

 

[brookellen10]

What kind of evidence of distress would you expect? Ellen being 30 yards away, farther up on the trail, indicates she was going for help or knew she had to get out of the situation.

Well, this is just my opinion, and I said this before, but I really want to see if the phone has any outgoing texts/calls. Maybe a voice or video recording. If not, that seems odd to me. Unless, of course, the battery was completely dead or it was totally overheated. Aside from that, like Ultraviolet said, why not let the dog go (if it was tethered like one report said)?

 

[abanddb123]

1) 2 male hikers experiencing delirium both die from exposure to the heat

Two other hikers tried to offer one of the men drinking water shortly before he died, but the man refused it -- a likely sign of heat exposure

Two hikers discovered a second man about 300 feet farther along the trail "screaming and yelling hysterically and refusing water they offered,"

As the two hikers approached the second man, he ran.

"They tried to give him water, he was running around in circles, they said, and he ran away,”

"That is the classical symptom of heat exposure," Bassett said, adding that the men had stripped their clothes off along the trail.

No water, food or other supplies were found near the men, he said.

The area in which the men died is about a mile from the start of the Gold Strike trail, which is near the Hacienda hotel-casino on U.S. 93.
2 hikers die from exposure to heat

2) A hiking couple by the names of Gen Miake & his wife, Kathie Barber, were found dead, just 100 yards from each other.

The couple was in the open desert with no shade and the temperature was estimated at 113 degrees. (This family hiked in 103-109 degree heat)
Hikers Found Dead In Mojave Desert ID'ed As Yorba Linda Couple
3) Two tourists killed by heat stroke after getting out of car to go for help in California desert | Daily Mail Online

Oh my, it happens way more than I realized.

 

[noel leon]

Cyanobacterial Harmful Algal Blooms (CyanoHABs) in Water Bodies | US EPA

Cyanobacterial Harmful Algal Blooms (CyanoHABs) in Water Bodies

 

[lotus777]

Well, this is just my opinion, and I said this before, but I really want to see if the phone has any outgoing texts/calls. Maybe a voice or video recording. If not, that seems odd to me. Unless, of course, the battery was completely dead or it was totally overheated. Aside from that, like Ultraviolet said, why not let the dog go (if it was tethered like one report said)?

LE has mentioned looking into the phone...until they do no one can say whether there's evidence of distress.

 

[Deleted member 222031]

Since there's no new info as of yet today, I thought I'd share an interesting oped from the SF Chronicle aka SF Gate: What California hikers who have gone missing have in common

Mostly, it's about solo hikers, though it mentions this case. But two bits especially resonated with me:

• "From what search-and-rescue leaders are seeing, people who go missing in the outdoors here [in California] tend to have experience but somehow have gotten in over their heads..."
  
• "In quite a few of those cases, the hikers have gotten into dangerous situations not because they lack experience... but because their deep level of experience led them to feel more comfortable taking risks."

Interesting theory. Not sure avid hikers and other recreationalists (hunters, etc.) would agree on the conclusion about more experience = increase in risk taking.

Really hard to get good feedback from the subjects who need to be interviewed re: what (if anything) they would do differently since, well, they are no longer with us.

Don't want to appear argumentative but outdoor recreation is not optional for a lot of us. It is the way we make a soul connection with our planet, our God, etc. Everyone weighs risk differently. To me, conclusions like this are not helpful at all.

I especially do not like the emphasis on not hiking alone. About 95% of all my outdoor recreation since 1994 has been done alone. I have developed good intuition and follow it. But if I die out there, so be it. Not wanting to, but could never live a life without some level of outdoor risk, since it is inherent in the activity.

Just my humble 2 cents.

 

[RedHaus]

I have wondered also about that video camera pic at 7:45am. Was the image clear enough of both JG and EC to make out facial expressions while they were driving? If so did they appear bright and cheerful, angry and upset, sad and crying, or tired and droopy?

And were either the infant and / or the dog visible in the cab, meaning did they appear "as expected"?

 

[woods]

Just 2 days before their hike, the family was allegedly seen at a museum and they were interested in the climbing exhibit. It’s hard to believe that this outdoorsy, full-of-life, & seemingly loving family was deliberately met with foul play. JMO.

 

[Ruthbullock]

What kind of evidence of distress would you expect? Ellen being 30 yards away, farther up on the trail, indicates she was going for help or knew she had to get out of the situation.

Or they were all sat having a rest break and mum looked for somewhere slightly more secluded to go to the toilet, or there was a lightening storm and mum walked up hill slightly to get a better view, or even just to keep stretching her legs whilst everyone else was taking a rest. It’s not such a massive distance that she necessarily was on her way for help and wasn’t just merely away from the rest of her family temporarily when something happened.