Found Deceased UK - Leah Croucher, 19, Emerson Valley, Milton Keynes, 14 Feb 2019 #4

[Miss_French]

Questions: Why wasn't this taken seriously and footage from dash cams and road cameras taken at the time? Also, why is the police saying they did speak to the witness when the witness says they didn't? Edited to also ponder on the angle of the feet - I'm wondering if the angle was from someone sitting on a seat or from someone perhaps with hands tied in footwell of car and put their feet up on dashboard in desperate way to try to get attention from others? JMO MOO

Maybe the police spoke to her after she'd raised the sighting again?

The driver says the shoe soles were dark; I'm wondering if she actually saw the bottom.of the shoes or just the sides and assumed if the edges were black that the soles were. If you are tied up in a front seat footwell, to be able to put your feet on a dashboard I think you'd be a contortionist of Houdini proportions, notwithstanding Leah was about average height for a woman and did Taekwondo; there isn't room to manouevre. By angle, do you mean they were on their back and the shoes appeared sole uppermost with the tops on the dash? Surely that would have been mentioned as it's a weird and crucial detail. If it was the other way round, surely they'd be able to use their legs for leverage.

 

[dotr]

But if you are abducting someone, why would you have them in the front seat with their feet free and able to move around so much? If it was someone in their late teens in the car willingly, why push their feet down?

Maybe a girlfriend sneaking off and boyfriend helping her to squeeze down so she will not be seen by neighbours? speculation, imo.

 

[Officer Dibble]

I think she was quite clear about why she didn't get a chance to see the registration plate, and the description of the car was thorough, even though (like many people) she may not know one make from another without sight of the marque.

The comment that did strike me as extremely odd though was this:

"He was wearing a dark, bottle green jumper and a tan-coloured jacket. It was a long jacket, not a short one. It may have been leather."

Even if you were very close, which she can't really have been if someone several cars in front of her let him pull out in front of them, I can't think of any conceivable way you could see that the driver of another car was wearing a 'long jacket, not a short one'.

But for sure, it's an interesting development. It would be good imo if the police would be more specific, e.g. they couldn't trace the car with the information she gave, or they did trace it but the driver was ruled out. And if they couldn't trace it, I would want to know how hard they tried, as afaik they didn't make a public appeal either for the driver to come forward or for anyone else on that road at that time to contact them if they saw it too.

I'm sorry to say I don't think traffic cam footage would be available anymore, unless it was looked at at the time and specifically archived. Could be wrong though.

JMO

She described the driver letting go of the wheel and using both hands to push the legs down with force. To do that you would need to lean over towards the passenger side. You could then tell it wasn't a short jacket. JMO MOO

 

[Officer Dibble]

But if you are abducting someone, why would you have them in the front seat with their feet free and able to move around so much? If it was someone in their late teens in the car willingly, why push their feet down?

I personally think she was in the footwell, possibly arms restrained, but legs up fighting for attention. JMO MOO

 

[Officer Dibble]

Maybe the police spoke to her after she'd raised the sighting again?

The driver says the shoe soles were dark; I'm wondering if she actually saw the bottom.of the shoes or just the sides and assumed if the edges were black that the soles were. If you are tied up in a front seat footwell, to be able to put your feet on a dashboard I think you'd be a contortionist of Houdini proportions, notwithstanding Leah was about average height for a woman and did Taekwondo; there isn't room to manouevre. By angle, do you mean they were on their back and the shoes appeared sole uppermost with the tops on the dash? Surely that would have been mentioned as it's a weird and crucial detail. If it was the other way round, surely they'd be able to use their legs for leverage.

I thought she wasn't very tall?

 

[Miss_French]

You look at the queries raised on here and it's zero 'investigative joournalism' from the Citizen.

That map with 'black car' and 'my car' and the mention of 'several vehicles' ahead in the queue; so roughly how far away was the driver? The average car length is over 14', plus you need to allow for gaps as they are stationary.

How could she see the soles and the bottom of the man's jacket and be able to judge his age; 30-40 is quite a difference? Could she really tell the shade of his hair? Why are small feet female and not a young male?

They just seem to have taken everything at face value and published the statement, no questions asked.

 

[HollyHunter9]

But if you are abducting someone, why would you have them in the front seat with their feet free and able to move around so much? If it was someone in their late teens in the car willingly, why push their feet down?

Maybe if it was leah she got in the car willingly initially as she knew who it was but once inside realised something was wrong and tried to escape, kicking and fighting if the doors were locked to try get attention.

 

[Miss_French]

She described the driver letting go of the wheel and using both hands to push the legs down with force. To do that you would need to lean over towards the passenger side. You could then tell it wasn't a short jacket. JMO MOO

Think about the height of a car door and how high you'd have to be out of your seat for a jacket to be seen as long. If it was that obvious and aggressive was it really only seen by someone several cars away and no-one closer?

 

[Miss_French]

Maybe if it was leah she got in the car willingly initially as she knew who it was but once inside realised something was wrong and tried to escape, kicking and fighting if the doors were locked to try get attention.

So why would you try and drive with someone you've abducted free to fight in the front seat?

 

[Miss_French]

I personally think she was in the footwell, possibly arms restrained, but legs up fighting for attention. JMO MOO

Leah is 5' 2", but think about it. When squashed into a footwell, how do you twist round enough to get your legs up one at a time, or even at all? You've got the seat and the overhang of the dash to overcome.

 

[HollyHunter9]

So why would you try and drive with someone you've abducted free to fight in the front seat?

Because someone getting into a car willingly will attract less attention than someone being bundled into the boot of a car kicking and screaming. Look at the Sarah Everard case...WC somehow persuaded her to get in his car as cctv pictured the car with the passenger door open. Once in the car she must've realised something was wrong yet he managed to successfully abduct and murder her anyway.

 

[truthistheresomewher]

In case anyone doesn’t know the grid system in MK, just a thought from me.
So from the witness’ map on the MK citizen article. Indicated as ‘my car’ is the H7 Chaffron Way and indicated as ‘black car’ is Shirwell
crescent which is indeed the exit from Furzton Lake hotel and/or car park.
That junction on to the H7 is just before a roundabout and I’m 99% sure that part of Chaffron Way is single carriageway, so if the driver is to turn right out of the junction as the articles suggest, there would be quite the queue to the roundabout at that time of the morning. As with all roundabouts in MK during rush hour.
The lady mentioned she lost sight of the car/Reg as someone let them pull out which would be standard when there is a long queue and someone is trying to get across.
What doesn’t make sense to me is there would have been no queue at all if the black car had exited left out of Shirwell Cres so if you were hiding something or needed to get away quickly would you not turn left rather than join a queue?
Unless the driver did not know the area.
Just MOO of thought on driving in MK.
Article with map in question linked again
Sighting of mysterious man 'hiding' female in car emerges on the day Leah Croucher disappeared in Milton Keynes

 

[Officer Dibble]

You look at the queries raised on here and it's zero 'investigative joournalism' from the Citizen.

That map with 'black car' and 'my car' and the mention of 'several vehicles' ahead in the queue; so roughly how far away was the driver? The average car length is over 14', plus you need to allow for gaps as they are stationary.

How could she see the soles and the bottom of the man's jacket and be able to judge his age; 30-40 is quite a difference? Could she really tell the shade of his hair? Why are small feet female and not a young male?

They just seem to have taken everything at face value and published the statement, no questions asked.

Not sure if you've ever driven in country roads with bends and curves in the UK but you can see several cars ahead if you are in a particular part of a bend, especially if the traffic is stationery waiting for someone ahead to turn at a junction.

 

[Officer Dibble]

Leah is 5' 2", but think about it. When squashed into a footwell, how do you twist round enough to get your legs up one at a time, or even at all? You've got the seat and the overhang of the dash to overcome.

She did Taikwondo. She would be flexible. JMO

 

[Cherwell]

Not sure if you've ever driven in country roads with bends and curves in the UK but you can see several cars ahead if you are in a particular part of a bend, especially if the traffic is stationery waiting for someone ahead to turn at a junction.

It wasn't a country road, it was a straight road in Milton Keynes!

 

[Onetruesaxon]

Hi all,

A newbie here.

I have really got into the Leah case the last few days while at home and it is one I can't seem to get out of my head. I have been trying to look at everything. It's a mystery.

There is a few things I want to ask and then I will say some of my theories.

Is AC definitely gone of Facebook now ? I can see a few people called his name on there but none that are from the MK area. I saw one comment earlier that he did use to have it and was friends with Leah but took himself off? I have checked Instagram aswell. With the new update about the lady seeing someone push somebody down and a foot on the dashboard. She says the car was very shiny, not to be racist or too sterotypcial but I know Asians etc love nice cars and have some really done up shiny lovely cars. Again this doesn't mean anything and I'm not saying it does. It would be nice to able to see this AC's social media but the profiles I have found I do not think are him.

Also another odd thing is, why does Leah not have her brother Hayden on her friends list? Not saying this means anything. Hayden ovs cared for her very very much by all his posts.

Anyway let's move on there's obviously alot a few theories and possibilities and none of us know. Maybe it being Valentine's day doesn't mean anything. It's just a random day. Or it could mean alot of things.

Why turn location off? These are all my ideas why I would do these things. (Some may not make sense they all thought out loud)

Hide from someone..Someone watching. Paranoid. Drugs. Dealing drugs. Going somewhere dodgy /not meant to be. Meeting someone. Doing a crime. Scared of someone knowing where there they are. Don't want someone to see something . Done it by mistake ( I have a few times or when you save battery or go on app sometimes you have to turn it off? Or the big one someone else did it and turned it off. Someone pre-planned it (how did they know she wouldnt notice and turn it back on, especially if you getting taxis etc or anything bit risky) or she could of turned it off herself, after work it could of been all planed and she done it then at that time so it was done out the way and she wouldn't forget for later.

When she gets home from work and changes into joggers etc Where does she go?

Could she have been dealing drugs for AC. Could she have been having sex with others for him? She went somewhere quick and shady. Could it not of even been related to AC where she went? Did she meet someone else. Online dating.. Seeing someone else. Maybe she done this alot and had been going for ages if she had be dealing drugs for him or sex. Or did she meet him which seems unlikely as he has alibi's.

When she came in maybe it was just normal to her she done it before or she went upstairs had take away as she was annoyed at something/sad or felt annoyed with what she had to do or done.

I think she looks a very vulnerable girl, an easy target, someone who wouldnt of got in trouble on purpose, smart (books in her room) I think she was used , sex and drugs being the most likely cause. AC or ex whoever it was probably made her do stuff for him. A dealer of a certain type , will definitely use people who don't look like they will get caught . Perhaps he made her stash drugs for him. Perhaps he got her dealing for him and she done it because he gave her stuff, cared for her, pretended he loved her. All ideas that could happen. She looks a very vulnerable girl to me. It would help to see this AC guy but I bet he's a well known man , who wouldn't normally go for a girl like this.

I think the hotel was definitely a cover up to either go for sex with him or someone else or someone he or his friends or group made her do. She ovs didn't want anyone to know about it.

Motives for someone?

Planned
Jealousy lover? Met someone else. Bf didn't want her. She was pregnant and told him and she would keep it. She uncovered something..she knew something about them . She said she will go to police. She messed up a drug deal.. she wouldn't leave him alone. He didn't want the wife or finance or family to find out . Would of had to been following her and know where she was going at what time etc. Arrange marriage? She couldn't be with him? Religion. The person's family didn't like it. Finances/gf? Revenge from her doing something. Revenge from her brother who not being harsh maybe thought he was a bit of a local gangster. (Think this is unlikely) perhaps he had done something to someone and they got her , maybe he knows more about it and felt so guilty he caused it he killed himself. I don't buy this one. Just ideas.

Random snatched.young naive looking girl. Looked easy target. Motive rape and she saw his face so killed her or was going to kill her anyway. Buried her somewhere. Was in wrong place at wrong time

Sucicide

Sad, depressed. Bf was engaged to someone else. Did she kill herself? Where is her body ? Was it in a shady wood or land of the track somewhere explains no CCTV anywhere ? Surely someone would find it but it is possible I guess? Someone will come across it one day. I actually have a family member who found a body in somewood lands, they found a skull and then comes across other bones , and it was someone who hungthemselves and there clothes were still on some of the bones. The police said he had been missing for a few years..so it is possible she would of had to of gone of in some real secret rural part where there is no CCTV. Possible but unlikely.

Notes:
She lied to parents that she was seeing friends the night before . Where did she go? Who she meet ?

She turned her location of after work I believe?

She lied about staying in a hotel with some friends but stayed in another hotel.

Her family told her older bf to stay away?

Lies? Scared to tell her parents something. Hiding something. Doing something she shouldn't and don't want people to know.

She went out to deal drugs for him. She didnt no location was off. (Would she not notice)

Someone planned it and got her next day

Couldn't of left mk. Only one bit of cttv. Abduction? No more CCTV going anywhere. Have to had been snatched ? Had to be planned not anywhere in CCTV or public ? Or just random unlucky ? Did she meet someone on purpose ? Trust the person ?

Vulnerabal. Groomed ? Was doing things for them. Getting pimped out?

I think it was abduction and definitely foul play. I think she was drove somewhere and her body buried . Everything is leading to it was planned and carefully thought out. No car on CCTV, phones location turned off. Phones turned off. So I personally don't think it was a just a random attack at the wrong place at the wrong time. I think people know more about it. I think drugs and sex was involved somehow. We may never know. Someone may come forward one day.


Sorry for the long post and how it's all over the place. These are all Jumbled ideas.

 

[Scorpiette]

From link.. rbbm.
''The woman is now urging police to re-examine what she told that at the time on February 15 as it could provide a vital clue in the baffling case.''

"Suddenly a right foot appeared on the dashboard, followed by a left foot," she said. "I guessed they belonged to a female because of the size.''

'''She remembers the time clearly - it was between 8.35am and 8.40am.

Leah's mobile phone left the network inexplicably at 8.34am in the area of Furzton Lake.''

The witness said: "As I watched the car, the driver suddenly let go of the steering wheel with both hands, twisted himself around and pushed whoever the feet belonged to down really forcefully.
"He was using both hands and it seemed a very aggressive thing to do.
"It was like he was trying to hide someone."

''The woman, who was travelling along the H7 (Chaffron Way) towards central Milton Keynes, described the man driving the mystery car as between 30 and 40 with dark brown hair in a "mophead" style.
He was wearing a bottle green jumper and a long tan-coloured jacket.
''She remembers the passenger's shoes having dark soles, possibly boots, and it was pulling out of a junction onto the H7 on the road leading at a right angle directly from the lake.''

Interesting description about the hairstyle of the driver. "A mophead' style. I'm wondering if this could possibly have been a wig used as disguise?
JM was mistakenly released from prison that day, and he sometimes used wigs as disguise. JMO.

 

[dotr]

Interesting description about the hairstyle of the driver. "A mophead' style. I'm wondering if this could possibly have been a wig used as disguise?
JM was mistakenly released from prison that day, and he sometimes used wigs as disguise. JMO.

The enduring appeal of The Beatles' mop-top haircuts

Central Press
''A few technical details on the cut: straight locks were brushed down, hiding any appearance of a natural part to create a clean, combed-over effect. But it swept across the forehead in a slightly shaggier style, fronting the haircut with an effortless-looking fringe. Each of the four embraced it at different levels; McCartney's was thinner and a bit more feathered, whereas Lennon's was full and heavily layered. George Harrison named it "Arthur" in an interview. No one really knows why.

Latterly, Liam and Noel Gallagher both embraced the side-swept haircuts in the early days of Oasis, as did the majority of One Direction circa 2014 (a tad too gelled for our taste, but ten points for trying). As for today? All seven members of K-Pop band BTS are sporting pretty good takes on the style (which shouldn't come as much surprise given that they've literally replicated a set of The Beatles' 1964 debut on US television. Talk about influence).''

Ws thread..
GUILTY - UK - Joe McCann, multiple victims kidnapped & assaulted, April / May 2019
Nov 2019
'Serial sex attacker wore wig to rape mum, 21, before boasting: 'It's normal, it's what travellers do''

 

[Officer Dibble]

It wasn't a country road, it was a straight road in Milton Keynes!

Really? I thought it had a bend in it though?

 

[Officer Dibble]

DBM