Found Deceased WY - Gabrielle ‘Gabby’ Petito, 22, Grand Teton National Park, 25 Aug 2021 #50

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I think a simple murder as a cause wouldn't affect the investigation. They can keep all the information how that murder was committed, sealed. eg. stabbing, shooting, blunt force trauma, stangulation, all can remain out of public until trial. imo
Cause of death = how death happened
Murder/manslaughter /etc = what legal charge a person is charged with.

If you hit someone over the head with a rock and they die, cause = rock hit/blunt force trauma/whatever.

From there, depending on available evidence and statutory language, the initial legal charge/prosecution could be murder (of some degree or other), manslaughter (again, of some level /type or other), or something else (could be just simply "homicide" initially).

From there, prosecution decides which specific charges to pursue in court and to out to a jury/decuder. Many a murderer (lowercase) is charged with or found guilty of a lesser crime. Prosecutions are based on what the prosecution thinks they can prove & win with.
 
He!!, I would -- I mean, it's just sitting there, glaring at them, IMO. It could have BL in it or some evidence that has not been hidden/destroyed yet. Storage bins, huts, trunks, trash cans, etc., no way the FBI ignore that if they were doing a true search for a perpetrator of for crime evidence. But that would require a warrant, wouldn't it? Would the 'rents allow a full search w/o a warrant? Not likely. JMO.

Yeah, I wonder what the situation is with Gabby’s family obtaining her belongings from them? If they’ve asked… or if they haven’t, for some reason related to the investigation.
 
But, it's normal to them. And in the US, we don't really get to tell other people what to consider normal - we just have laws. I guess you'd be surprised about what people say about slap fights and this kind of violence - it's very common and to many people who live it, is normal. Of course you can judge, but you won't understand them if you don't realize that their threshold for what's abnormal is different to yours.

Further, I have an entire database of crimes (mostly murders, all kinds) in which the main thing that people who are not residing with the perp will say is, "But he was so nice, we never would have thought this."

I got interested in this topic when I was 17 and the boy who lived behind us (a sweet, quiet boy who was a bit of a loner, but we girls found him sweet, not particularly cool, kind of cute, a little awkward)...got up one morning and shot both of his parents. I suppose it could just be the neighborhood, but 30 years later, a man who was everybody's friend and aged about 60, shot his brother and killed himself. That was in the house across the street from the boy. Both families were "normal."

If there's one thing I've learned from a life of academic study of crime, it's that there's always a story, and that "quiet, nice kid next door" often isn't, if you go and interview siblings (I think CL almost said something about it) or parents...

I doubt Gabby's parents knew he had taken her driver's license, or that they specifically fought over phones, or that he hated "infestations" of people in nature settings, or that he had severe insomnia or "episodes" in which he thought he might be hearing voices or hallucinating (per MSM from Gabby's friend). They may not have read that, even now. I would wager that neither parent was familiar with his social media and, like most parents, probably wouldn't have been able to interpret it without the context of his entire behavior - and seeing his natal family dynamics up close.

But his parents knew him. There's a reason he was still living at home, underemployed, dreaming and painting and drawing cartoons, reading scifi and thrillers, creating music playlists - these are not employable skills. These are occupational therapy, IMO. Gabby joined his team of helpers.

I doubt that Wayne Couzen's fellow employees had a clue about him. People with deep issues find ways to conceal them, especially with help from families. However, their "fixes" are jerry-rigged and highly subject to falling apart under stress. They know how to duck and cover, as we are seeing in this case.

I learned all that from LE. And then I learned it from law professors and psychiatrists. And in hospitals for the criminally insane. And in VA hospitals, where people were in locked wards for running amuck. Often, their comrades and commanding officers were shocked ("Never thought he was the type"). But the psychiatrists and other researchers concluded differently. The clues were there, but a person might need training to see them. And the stressors were obvious too. Even though the patients were hopeful that they could "buck up" and be part of society, they could not.

I think many, many people survive relationships like the one Gabby had with Brian (in terms of the degree of spatting and face smooshing and girl slapping) and did not kill each other. I'm not condoning slapping and pinching, of course (and I would tell my daughters to leave), but in real life, most people look the other way when young people have what they feel are "minor" issues with interpersonal boundaries. Everyone figures they'll learn. But in certain conditions involving deep-seated issues, the behaviors escalate - often suddenly, and I do believe that sometimes we can suss that out before it happens.

The question is - what is different about BL? I refuse to think it's just some random neuron misfiring (unless drugs are involved, which I do not think is true) or that there were really no signs at all - but the signs weren't apparent to young Gabby and probably were more complex than just his behavior toward Gabby. I also think Gabby saw a parent-structured version of Brian. As most people do not feel completely themselves while living with their parents, Brian had not had a chance to figure himself out, out in the big world. The structure of Brian's world had changed a few times, in the two years before this incident, and his previous coping skills (gained to help with his issues) were not sufficient to this next phase of life.

At all.
Excellent and insightful! Very thought provoking commentary and analysis.
Would you mind expanding your analysis of BL a little more? I very much appreciate your opinions.
 
Just because that was/is the "official" press release by the local police three weeks ago- doesn't mean the FBI (who is now assisting) hasn't uncovered a connection. We probably know 1/10 of what happens behind the scenes in these investigations.

You are right. We don't know much of what LE knows. I assume that LE knows exactly where GP and BL were between the evening of the 13th (the last day the Moab couple were seen, the day after the Moab stop)) and the 18th (when the couple's bodies were found) and thus know they weren't in the area to do the deed. Thats why LE may have been so quick and adamant in their statement that there was no connection. They could have easily just left it at their previous statement that they were looking into a connection.
 
Hmmmm. Do you think he reads WEBSLEUTHS?

If he’s on a burner with top up credit or using sporadic access to use public WiFi there’s no way he’d have the time to keep up with the threads!

I strongly feel that Gabby did fear him at this point. If nothing else, she was terrified of being abandoned all alone with no van and no phone. He, IMHO, had done that to her and it was also to the point of giving her panic attacks. This was my take on the police body cameras. BL had found the one way to control, threaten, and punish her. JMO!

Yep, I think he liked frightening her. That was very much my take from that incident too. The incident with the locked vehicle and then him speeding and her trying to grab his arm got me big time, then the bodycam footage cemented it.
 
But, it's normal to them. And in the US, we don't really get to tell other people what to consider normal - we just have laws. I guess you'd be surprised about what people say about slap fights and this kind of violence - it's very common and to many people who live it, is normal. Of course you can judge, but you won't understand them if you don't realize that their threshold for what's abnormal is different to yours.

Further, I have an entire database of crimes (mostly murders, all kinds) in which the main thing that people who are not residing with the perp will say is, "But he was so nice, we never would have thought this."

I got interested in this topic when I was 17 and the boy who lived behind us (a sweet, quiet boy who was a bit of a loner, but we girls found him sweet, not particularly cool, kind of cute, a little awkward)...got up one morning and shot both of his parents. I suppose it could just be the neighborhood, but 30 years later, a man who was everybody's friend and aged about 60, shot his brother and killed himself. That was in the house across the street from the boy. Both families were "normal."

If there's one thing I've learned from a life of academic study of crime, it's that there's always a story, and that "quiet, nice kid next door" often isn't, if you go and interview siblings (I think CL almost said something about it) or parents...

I doubt Gabby's parents knew he had taken her driver's license, or that they specifically fought over phones, or that he hated "infestations" of people in nature settings, or that he had severe insomnia or "episodes" in which he thought he might be hearing voices or hallucinating (per MSM from Gabby's friend). They may not have read that, even now. I would wager that neither parent was familiar with his social media and, like most parents, probably wouldn't have been able to interpret it without the context of his entire behavior - and seeing his natal family dynamics up close.

But his parents knew him. There's a reason he was still living at home, underemployed, dreaming and painting and drawing cartoons, reading scifi and thrillers, creating music playlists - these are not employable skills. These are occupational therapy, IMO. Gabby joined his team of helpers.

I doubt that Wayne Couzen's fellow employees had a clue about him. People with deep issues find ways to conceal them, especially with help from families. However, their "fixes" are jerry-rigged and highly subject to falling apart under stress. They know how to duck and cover, as we are seeing in this case.

I learned all that from LE. And then I learned it from law professors and psychiatrists. And in hospitals for the criminally insane. And in VA hospitals, where people were in locked wards for running amuck. Often, their comrades and commanding officers were shocked ("Never thought he was the type"). But the psychiatrists and other researchers concluded differently. The clues were there, but a person might need training to see them. And the stressors were obvious too. Even though the patients were hopeful that they could "buck up" and be part of society, they could not.

I think many, many people survive relationships like the one Gabby had with Brian (in terms of the degree of spatting and face smooshing and girl slapping) and did not kill each other. I'm not condoning slapping and pinching, of course (and I would tell my daughters to leave), but in real life, most people look the other way when young people have what they feel are "minor" issues with interpersonal boundaries. Everyone figures they'll learn. But in certain conditions involving deep-seated issues, the behaviors escalate - often suddenly, and I do believe that sometimes we can suss that out before it happens.

The question is - what is different about BL? I refuse to think it's just some random neuron misfiring (unless drugs are involved, which I do not think is true) or that there were really no signs at all - but the signs weren't apparent to young Gabby and probably were more complex than just his behavior toward Gabby. I also think Gabby saw a parent-structured version of Brian. As most people do not feel completely themselves while living with their parents, Brian had not had a chance to figure himself out, out in the big world. The structure of Brian's world had changed a few times, in the two years before this incident, and his previous coping skills (gained to help with his issues) were not sufficient to this next phase of life.

At all.
Agreed. My judgment of normal, healthy relationship is quite often drastically different than the clients who show up in my office (I'm a mental health professional - 30+ years). My tedious task is helping them attain healthy boundaries, healthy relationship and communication skills, anger management resources if needed. Helping them understand that while certain things may be normalized in our society, that doesn't mean those things are healthy, constructive behaviors or adding value to their lives in any way.

I also agree that BL does not function well outside the structure of his parent's house and caretaking. I don't think either family had quite figured that out before they let him head west to his grand adventure. They seemed to just go with the flow, despite BL lacking the interpersonal, relationship and communication skills to pull this off successfully. The trip turned into hell, which doesn't surprise me in the least.
 
I'm not sure how logical it is for a NY RE attorney handling a case out of the Federal District of Wyoming. It seems an experienced criminal attorney reasonably located in or near Wyoming would be a better fit for all involved.
I'm not sure how any attorney can represent him effectively if they can't speak to him. I assume he agreed to retain before he left, but who knows if he would now agree to keep this one or retain a more seasoned specialized attorney. ‍♀️
 
I have some fairly strong opinions about their attorney. His conduct and judgment are questionable at best, from a legal ethics standpoint. He's been dancing on an ethical edge. Even moreso if they are unsophisticated and dependent on him.

My feelings as well, @Sassafrass.
IANAL, but some things that they have done, IMO, and some things that he has done, or recommended, sound a bit not right. He's out of his league, according to what his shingle says he does, but he should know The Law, or how to look it up! But you get what you pay for, usually... JMO JMO.
 
It is okay. <modsnip> Yes the outer banks are lovely, all of the NC coast is lovely, but these are small towns, mostly everyone knows everyone. And there are parts of Eastern NC that BL would be spotted and captured driving through <modsnip> and they would not take kindly to him. Oh, I never accused you of saying he went to California, NC. I am not bickering. I am just responding to back up my opinions and statements. WNC is so totally different from Eastern NC. And I feel strongly that BL is on or near the AT.

Eastern NC native here and I can’t imagine why he’d want to go to that area. It is a very rural area where he would not go unnoticed. Just an unfamiliar truck raises questions and we’re not afraid to ask a stranger questions.

It’s flat with no hiking trails or parks. Large farm lands, but not a good idea to try camping without permission.

To add to the confusion, there is a Murfreesboro, NC as well as in TN. Murfreesboro, NC is just N of Ahoskie, close to Eastern Virginia.
 
If BL did go home for that weird storage unit expedition I expect it would’ve given him an opportunity to lay the groundwork with his parents too. “She’s going to get me in trouble / she’s abusive / she’s losing it” and whatever else. Groundwork that might have benefited him when he later returned in her van and with a story explaining why he’s home without her.
This is a really good point. "She's crazy, Mom. If it wasn't for me they would've taken her to jail for DV." I don't believe that it was premeditated but that would certainly create a self-defense story that he might be using.
 
HLN is telling the public to be patient. The legal panel said the is a tale to be told from GABBY. The investigation is going forward. It will be solved through the public. Beware if changing his appearance. Story is developing slowly
I don't know who HLN/this panel is, but they seem not to be saying anything that hasn't been said here many times:rolleyes:o_O
 
Hmmmm. Do you think he reads WEBSLEUTHS?

I have only been posting for about 4 months but I’ve lurked for years. I don’t have any idea if BL reads Websleuths or even has the means to be able to do so, but it’s possible. Just off the top of my head I can think of 2 relatively high profile cases where the perp or suspected perp not only read here but posted as well—Abraham Shakespeare (woman was convicted) & a suspect not yet arrested in the murder of Alexandra Brueger.
 
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