GUILTY OH - Pike Co, 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #66

[Ann99]

Joining you on the fence.

There's a reason why the state considers this evidence important, but they're not going to tell us unless there's a trial or some other reason they need to reveal it in the pre-trial stage.

ETA: On the topic of the safe, has anything at all related to a safe appeared in discovery or any other part of the pre-trial process? JMO, it's rumor started by someone who was weaving the false narrative that CR1 was killed by "the cartel" because he was a big time drug dealer (he wasn't).

Believe you are right in that the State has held back on revealing publicly evidence or details of the case.
That could be details from each location and each victim as well.
Their past relationships have not been detailed anywhere to my knowledge.
There has to be a history between the families. Otherwise how did J and H meet? There is no way to discuss this because it would be hearsay, no links and against TOS. That is ok.
I respect TOS.
Just saying there must be so much more…
The autopsies are a good example of keeping certain details, facts, (it seems to be a good amount) under seal.

 

[Betty P]

Believe you are right in that the State has held back on revealing publicly evidence or details of the case.
That could be details from each location and each victim as well.
Their past relationships have not been detailed anywhere to my knowledge.
There has to be a history between the families. Otherwise how did J and H meet? There is no way to discuss this because it would be hearsay, no links and against TOS. That is ok.
I respect TOS.
Just saying there must be so much more…
The autopsies are a good example of keeping certain details, facts, (it seems to be a good amount) under seal.

BBM. Yes, I agree. There must be a whole lot more, we know so little about the details of the crimes, the victims and killers. We've learned a little more about the planning and some about the cover up afterwards, but most of the rest is a blank slate.

For instance, I've always disagreed with statements (in the news media even) that the Wagners and Rhodens were close friends, that Chris Sr and Billy were good buddies. I don't think Chris or Dana were happy with Hanna's relationship with Jake. I'm sure they heard about Jake's physical abuse and controlling ways and were very upset. I also don't see any common ground for close friendships between Chris Sr & Dana and Billy & Angela Wagner.

The families didn't have much in common other than their kids having a relationship. I don't think they were friends prior to that. Rhodens & Manleys went to public schools and were involved in extra-curricular activities. Rhodens had a large extended family network, many local friendships. Chris Sr. and Kenny fixed cars for people, so probably knew a lot of people in the community. They had their friends at BBL and at the derby races.

Wagners seemed to keep to themselves. The parents didn't have jobs outside the home for many years. They home schooled their sons and were more insular. Did they have many outside friendships, other than selling their critters online? They probably had friendships through church. Rhoden's may have made an effort to reach out by attending George 4's wedding, but its not clear if they spent much time attending church with the Wagners.

I think the Rhodens and Manleys made an effort. Jake befriended James Manley. But I doubt there were close friendships. JMO

Here's a good local article from the time of the arrests with interviews with locals who discussed how they seldom saw the Wagners and didn't know them. Also quotes from friends and schoolmates of the victims.

Arrests in Ohio murders of Rhoden family don't ease minds of residents in area | wusa9.com

 

[Ann99]

BBM. Yes, I agree. There must be a whole lot more, we know so little about the details of the crimes, the victims and killers. We've learned a little more about the planning and some about the cover up afterwards, but most of the rest is a blank slate.

For instance, I've always disagreed with statements (in the news media even) that the Wagners and Rhodens were close friends, that Chris Sr and Billy were good buddies. I don't think Chris or Dana were happy with Hanna's relationship with Jake. I'm sure they heard about Jake's physical abuse and controlling ways and were very upset. I also don't see any common ground for close friendships between Chris Sr & Dana and Billy & Angela Wagner.

The families didn't have much in common other than their kids having a relationship. I don't think they were friends prior to that. Rhodens & Manleys went to public schools and were involved in extra-curricular activities. Rhodens had a large extended family network, many local friendships. Chris Sr. and Kenny fixed cars for people, so probably knew a lot of people in the community. They had their friends at BBL and at the derby races.

Wagners seemed to keep to themselves. The parents didn't have jobs outside the home for many years. They home schooled their sons and were more insular. Did they have many outside friendships, other than selling their critters online? They probably had friendships through church. Rhoden's may have made an effort to reach out by attending George 4's wedding, but its not clear if they spent much time attending church with the Wagners.

I think the Rhodens and Manleys made an effort. Jake befriended James Manley. But I doubt there were close friendships. JMO

Here's a good local article from the time of the arrests with interviews with locals who discussed how they seldom saw the Wagners and didn't know them. Also quotes from friends and schoolmates of the victims.

Arrests in Ohio murders of Rhoden family don't ease minds of residents in area | wusa9.com

TY. Interesting!
I had not seen this one and the additional articles.

A little scary…

“Both Estep and Adkins initially expressed fear about their names appearing in a news article.
“I might get killed,” Adkins said.
But they said the firearms they keep in their homes will give them some sense of safety. Estep lives in rural Pike County, toward the site of the killings, and was thoroughly “freaked out” when they were first reported.”

 

[Betty P]

TY. Interesting!
I had not seen this one and the additional articles.

A little scary…

“Both Estep and Adkins initially expressed fear about their names appearing in a news article.
“I might get killed,” Adkins said.
But they said the firearms they keep in their homes will give them some sense of safety. Estep lives in rural Pike County, toward the site of the killings, and was thoroughly “freaked out” when they were first reported.”

I know. I recall a tv interview with a couple other locals when the arrests happened. They expressed the same sentiment. The community was terrorized. Even after the arrests, people were afraid to talk. I wonder who and what they were afraid of? I don't doubt their sincerity, but you definitely get the impression the Wagners weren't considered "benevolent Christian" rich folks being kind to everyone in the community. People feared the power of the Wagners who aren't locked up and probably still do.

 

[LMDlong]

So is GW4 saying now that Billy killed the other 3 Victims?
Wonder when Billy is going to realize that he is on a sinking ship????
JMO I bet Billy will throw a monkey wrench into GW4s defense before the first of the year, he will say it was GW4 that did the killing, JMO

GW4 is as guilty as BWand JW . He much as admitted his guilt in the text messages to BW not to come up here and we got an emergency. Those aren’t everyday texts. But that’s JMO.

 

[Covert Operative]

From your post: Under DNA: Knife from Concrete 5/14/21; I do not believe the knife was used on any victim.

I'm sitting on the fence with this. If the knife is listed under DNA, then IMO that means someone's DNA is on it. But...whose DNA?

My first instinct is it is blood from a victim. But, there is also the possibility it is DNA from JW or BW, if they cut themselves accidentally somehow. We know it isn't GW4's because AC stated in one of the early hearings (possibly GW4's arraignment?) that the prosecution does not have any DNA from GW4.

As for it being JW or BW's DNA, why would they need to bury the knife with the other evidence if it is their own DNA? My instinct then directs me back to thinking it is DNA from at least one of the victims, probably CRSR or GR because of BJM saying there was blood all over the place. Back to sitting on that fence again...

So many questions, so little time....JMO

Not having any DNA from G4 was pre confession, pre pond evidence. They did not at that time. It could be his DNA on the knife. I think when they were talking about not having any of G4 DNA it was DNA at the scene. They had none of the evidence in the pond at that time and did not know where it was.

Since they kept the 3 guns it seems to imply that could also be a weapon used, but it also may be that they just loved that knife and could not bare to part with it like their guns. They could have held it to someone's throat and DNA got on it even if they did not inflict any injury with it.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

State's Supplemental Discovery, Filed Jun 21, 2021

Under DNA: Knife from Concrete 5/14/21

Under Latent Prints: Knife from Concrete 5/14/21

Under FWF: ATF Etrace 1911, Glock, SKS

Ford-F 150
(67 images)

GMC Sierra

GMC Sierra Photos - Athens County (65 images)

GMC Sierra Photos - PCSO Impound (50 images)

Photos 4-21-21 (10 images)

I do not believe the knife was used on any victim. I think the knife was a tool they took along like Billy carrying the Leatherman's Tool.

These cowardly Wagners were too afraid to use a knife on the victims because you have to get up close and personal to use one.

I believe the Wagners' plan was to use guns that night to subdue everyone and when Gary surprised them they used a gun with larger caliber bullets to subdue him, not a knife. They quickly pulled the gun.

I always thought knives would be handy for cutting down all those security cameras including the many trail cameras Kenneth had.

I definitely think the knife was on hand to use as a tool if necessary such as in breaking and entering, burglarizing, tampering with crime scenes, opening up cement buckets, cutting rope, etc...

I have a theory about that knife. If you recall DeWine fought tooth and nail to keep those autopsies out of the hands of reporters and the public. There had to be a reason for him taking it all the way to the Ohio supreme court after the coroner said they could be released to reporters. If you will all recall we discussed it for quite a while and found it very odd that he would be so adamant about them not getting out. I think the reason is that knife was used on some of the victims. Perhaps to carve some kind of symbol into their flesh or mutilate them in some way. Only if there is a trial held will we know because I do not believe the autopsies will ever be made public now.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

I have a theory about that knife. If you recall DeWine fought tooth and nail to keep those autopsies out of the hands of reporters and the public. There had to be a reason for him taking it all the way to the Ohio supreme court after the coroner said they could be released to reporters. If you will all recall we discussed it for quite a while and found it very odd that he would be so adamant about them not getting out. I think the reason is that knife was used on some of the victims. Perhaps to carve some kind of symbol into their flesh or mutilate them in some way. Only if there is a trial held will we know because I do not believe the autopsies will ever be made public now.

JMO

Didn't have anything to do with DeWine, it was the Cincinnati Enquirer that wanted the full autopsies. Family wanted reports kept private.

I would feel like I am being disrespectful towards the Manleys and Gilleys and Rhodens to start saying after 5 1/2 years that their family members were cut/stabbed/mutilated by a knife just because a knife was found with other items and forensically tested.

They were shot and Chris looked like he may have been beaten but nothing has ever come out in years and years about any of the Rhodens and Hannah Gilley
being stabbed or cut or mutilated with a knife.

3 specific guns were their method of choice to subdue, intimidate and seek revenge. Rage-overkill on number of shots. 34 shots if you count the bullet in Frankie's bed and bullet under Chris's house.

 

[IType]

Shift along that fence please, and kindly give me a hand up, I'm not as nifty as I used to be

Lol

 

[IType]

Joining you on the fence.

There's a reason why the state considers this evidence important, but they're not going to tell us unless there's a trial or some other reason they need to reveal it in the pre-trial stage.

ETA: On the topic of the safe, has anything at all related to a safe appeared in discovery or any other part of the pre-trial process? JMO, it's rumor started by someone who was weaving the false narrative that CR1 was killed by "the cartel" because he was a big time drug dealer (he wasn't).

About the safe, I vaguely recall discussion after the arrests about a bill or receipt being mentioned in a discovery list that had to do with a safe. But, that was 2 or 3 years ago, so my recollection could be wrong. I'll try to look around in my notes tomorrow and post if I find anything. Until then, this is JMO

 

[IType]

Not having any DNA from G4 was pre confession, pre pond evidence. They did not at that time. It could be his DNA on the knife. I think when they were talking about not having any of G4 DNA it was DNA at the scene. They had none of the evidence in the pond at that time and did not know where it was.

Since they kept the 3 guns it seems to imply that could also be a weapon used, but it also may be that they just loved that knife and could not bare to part with it like their guns. They could have held it to someone's throat and DNA got on it even if they did not inflict any injury with it.

All good points. Thanks

 

[Covert Operative]

About the safe, I vaguely recall discussion after the arrests about a bill or receipt being mentioned in a discovery list that had to do with a safe. But, that was 2 or 3 years ago, so my recollection could be wrong. I'll try to look around in my notes tomorrow and post if I find anything. Until then, this is JMO

I do not think the safe was ever mentioned on discovery. It may be in some information that is contained in a warrant when the trailers were moved, that is sealed, like much information is.

 

[Ann99]

About the safe, I vaguely recall discussion after the arrests about a bill or receipt being mentioned in a discovery list that had to do with a safe. But, that was 2 or 3 years ago, so my recollection could be wrong. I'll try to look around in my notes tomorrow and post if I find anything. Until then, this is JMO

iirc,
There was a vendor invoice for something worded similar to
“Securing safe” or “transport and securing safe “

 

[Piffcat]

There is certainly documented bills for removal of a safe and the amount was very high. We know the wagners pipe dreams of ala@ka played into this horrible tragedy. Imo there was an additional financial benefit involved here.. it would link alot of befuddled info to be explained. Krs residence could also be in play here. Was the cannabis crop taken? Anyone who could answer these questions is dead or a Wagner. It would make gw3 gw4 involvement make a lot more sense if money was a motivation. It seems there is a tendency to downplay the wagners heinous motivations and methods. This group showed no mercy
As they exterminated 8 people, some of them had done nothing to the wags. The state fought tooth and nail to keep the autopsies out. Evil things were done on this night unforgivable viciousness. To err on the side of mercy or sterile executions is foolish and dangerous thought pattern.

 

[Covert Operative]

There is certainly documented bills for removal of a safe and the amount was very high. We know the wagners pipe dreams of ala@ka played into this horrible tragedy. Imo there was an additional financial benefit involved here.. it would link alot of befuddled info to be explained. Krs residence could also be in play here. Was the cannabis crop taken? Anyone who could answer these questions is dead or a Wagner. It would make gw3 gw4 involvement make a lot more sense if money was a motivation. It seems there is a tendency to downplay the wagners heinous motivations and methods. This group showed no mercy
As they exterminated 8 people, some of them had done nothing to the wags. The state fought tooth and nail to keep the autopsies out. Evil things were done on this night unforgivable viciousness. To err on the side of mercy or sterile executions is foolish and dangerous thought pattern.

Money might have been a motivation. The Ws may have had many motivations in their mind. Not sure if some of the crop was taken but Junk says in many articles how much was found.
--Four days after the calculated killings of eight people in rural Ohio, a prosecutor revealed Monday that marijuana was found at some of the crime scenes, including a grow-house sheltering hundreds of plants."It wasn't just somebody sitting pots in the window," Pike County Prosecutor Rob Junk told The Columbus Dispatch.
This is just one article...there are many to be found.
AG: 100s of pot plants, possible cockfighting operations at Pike Co. crime scenes (wlwt.com)

 

[Betty P]

Didn't have anything to do with DeWine, it was the Cincinnati Enquirer that wanted the full autopsies. Family wanted reports kept private.

I would feel like I am being disrespectful towards the Manleys and Gilleys and Rhodens to start saying after 5 1/2 years that their family members were cut/stabbed/mutilated by a knife just because a knife was found with other items and forensically tested.

They were shot and Chris looked like he may have been beaten but nothing has ever come out in years and years about any of the Rhodens and Hannah Gilley
being stabbed or cut or mutilated with a knife.

3 specific guns were their method of choice to subdue, intimidate and seek revenge. Rage-overkill on number of shots. 34 shots if you count the bullet in Frankie's bed and bullet under Chris's house.

Actually, it was the Cincinnati Enquirer and the Columbus Dispatch. They went to court because DeWine refused to honor the long professional tradition of allowing newspapers to view autopsy reports and report on the contents with discretion. In the past the process has been to allow reporters to view AR's without taking notes and allow them to report on the contents. If there was information in the AR that was deemed important to the prosecution of the case or harmful to the family and victims, the newspapers would withhold that information. That system had been working well for several decades, probably longer.

DeWine made the unilateral decision to intervene because he thought it was necessary to protect the prosecution of the case and no longer trusted the news media to cooperate. That decision went all the way to the Ohio Supreme Court where one of the justices ruling on the case was DeWine's own son. Several justices recused themselves and replacements were hand picked. Time will tell if that was necessary, but it set a terrible precedent in the state of Ohio for protecting the rights of the public to know what their government is doing.

From now on, it's technically possible for government officials to cover up the cause of death of anyone who dies in Ohio. If a high ranking public official, for example, dies from a drug overdose, that information can never be made public. If a health care professional in a hospital is killing patients with overdoses of pain killing medication, that information can't be made public unless a prosecutor decides to bring charges. If the maid of a public official dies of mysterious circumstances at his home, that information can be kept secret (unlike the case of Alex Murdaugh's maid).

Just a few examples. DeWine has since partially (and unilaterally) amended the Ohio Supreme Court decision by allowing the news media to view the preliminary AR's of the Rhoden family just prior to the arrests of the Wagners. All of this is beneficial to protecting the Rhoden and Manley families, but there were other ways that could have been accomplished. JMO

 

[Betty P]

iirc,
There was a vendor invoice for something worded similar to
“Securing safe” or “transport and securing safe “

I've always wondered about that because it was just a document circulated on the internet. There was no way to verify its authenticity and we know some of the defendants have admitted to falsifying documents, so...

When it didn't show up in discovery, it seemed a little hinky, JMO.

 

[Covert Operative]

iirc,
There was a vendor invoice for something worded similar to
“Securing safe” or “transport and securing safe “

Anyone that may not think its authentic can call and request their own copy. The legwork was already done so a person would know exactly what to ask.

 

[Piffcat]

Money might have been a motivation. The Ws may have had many motivations in their mind. Not sure if some of the crop was taken but Junk says in many articles how much was found.
--Four days after the calculated killings of eight people in rural Ohio, a prosecutor revealed Monday that marijuana was found at some of the crime scenes, including a grow-house sheltering hundreds of plants."It wasn't just somebody sitting pots in the window," Pike County Prosecutor Rob Junk told The Columbus Dispatch.
This is just one article...there are many to be found.
AG: 100s of pot plants, possible cockfighting operations at Pike Co. crime scenes (wlwt.com)

Nice find on that one so many dead links in this case. It'd always been my strong belief that angela or another Wagner cohort tipped the press on the pot. I can't see another logical explanation on that leak so early in the investigation. The first responders had just dealt with a terrible blood bath and tge pot operation was well concealed. The wagners plan heavily relied on turning this into a drug war to erode sympathy for the victims, make it seem as they somehow deserved it. With the boondock saints info we know, it fits. It always struck me and still does, as so repulsive the way media, locals, define tossed the rhoden family to the curb over pot. Illegal at that time, sure. But come on.... plant has been used as medicine, therapeutically whatever for centuries. The thought of growing a plant by a few family members equaling their murders as justified or provoked was just so foul. The wags certainly knew which buttons to press and they continue to do so thru g4s lawyer.

 

[LMDlong]

Gary's preliminary AR didn't mention stab wounds, according to the news reporters who were allowed to view them.

Rhoden family massacre: Preliminary autopsy reports reviewed

IMO CR’s redacted AR showed more than gun shot wounds you just have to read between the lines and look things up. Listed under other injuries there was information . I think BW and CR were fighting and BW could not reach his gun, he had a knife on him pulled it out and used it on CR . Jmo