Found Deceased WY - Gabrielle ‘Gabby’ Petito, 22, Grand Teton National Park, 25 Aug 2021 #63

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justaparent said:
Just curious. Does that mean you would not have talked with Gabby’s family initially, when they were trying to find out where she might be? If you knew her van was sitting in your driveway?

They have a right to remain silent but showed absolutely no compassion to Gabby’s family before their son was named a POI. It says a lot about their character, or lack of.

MOO
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BL’s parents may have found out that something was amiss in 9/10 and very quickly realized that it was a problem that was beyond what they could handle. So, they were supposed to answer Gabby’s parents’ texts/emails with “BRian has been home since the 1st with the van and has refused to talk about Gabby. We thought they broke up and she went home to you.”? The truth, Of course, was and is much worse. How much of it they were told, is unknown but none of it is good. GP’s Father absolutely did not want to go there; said publicly, he couldn’t on Dr Phil’s show. That what happened was revealed slowly,may well have been less agonizing. Not really something the Lsundries were in much position to contemplate. I think that the realization of what their son did blew their minds. It certainly would have mine. It’s unthinkable. And yet it was their son involved.

so they called someone they knew who had experience with criminal activity. With the law. How to deal with LE.

I was initially horrified about their reaction too when reduced to sound bytes. But the situation, when explained more fully, left me to saying, that they did what they could muster.

BL… a whole other story. He likely killed Gabby, and couldn’t own up to it. What do most people who lose their temper and kill their SO, friend, family member, our in the woods do? I believe a number of them would have fled the scene and tried to get away with it. BL is not particularly unusual in his reaction. Absolutely, when he is caught, he has a reckoning coming to him.
 
Claire182 said:
I saw what I believed to be gabbys body and I said to my husband that looks like her feet are in an awkward position, hearing this information I believe it was the hiking boots. I wasn’t 100% sure if it was her body at the time as people said it wasn’t (black and some orange covering) but with this new info I believe it was.
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Black and orange? I wonder if it was the tent
 
FindingJoLee said:
I have an opinion about the protestors and their behavior. But I would never take that opinion beyond this board into their lives, onto their yards, or do it in a way that is negatively impacting their family, neighbors and friends. What you said also applies to Brian's family -- "if laws were broken, let law enforcement be the ones to handle it."
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Basically you are just saying you think your way is more acceptable. That's fine. That's how people think most of the time. It human nature. I did just type that very thing out.

I wouldn't be out there in the street screaming and yelling. Or waiting for one of them to come outside to harass them. But not everyone feels that way. I accept that I get to decide what I do and they get to decide what they do. If laws are broken....by anyone....LE will handle it. Its not up to anyone else to decide what opinion or expression of their opinion is okay as long as no law is broken. Live and let live and all that. Its a horrible nightmare of a situation that I wouldn't wish on anyone. There is only one resolution. Find BL.
 
mmeynstyn said:
You ask about physical abuse but let's remember she was with him for months/more than a year. I think the abuse may have elevated over time from a mental-type of abuse (and this is total MOO based on my experience with mental-type abuse). The controlling partner may abuse their partner through isolation, verbal abuse (repeated putting them down), threats to leave them alone in the middle of no where, etc. (all forms of control IMO).

One of my abusive situations was when I had to go to the bathroom and my boyfriend locked the door of the bedroom and wouldn't let me out. Yes, we were in an argument before and he refused to let me leave until the argument had concluded. I was beside myself all of the sudden realizing that I couldn't get out....I kept trying to reason with him but I finally just agreed with everything he said to get the argument over. He never hit me....so, I am sure some who say he was not abusive. All I know is, the person being controlled may feel frustrated/trapped at the inability to reason with the abuser. I experienced it and saw that in Gabby. IMO, She was probably already stressed to get her social media wrapped up for the day because he was all over her like stink on "you know what" to go hiking. Gosh, she was trying to get it done, then he threatens to leave her. Over months and years of this controlling behavior and her inability to reason with him, it was a pressure cooker. We witnessed Gabby's release of pressure through her emotional state and her admitted physical actions. She shouldn't have been slapping or whatever she was doing, and she knew it, that is probably one reason she admitted as such to the cops. The controller continued to control and it seems we may now know how he finally released his pressure.
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This explanation makes sense to me. Even though at first I though Gabby's friend Rose was a little bias, I wonder if she is the one with the most knowledge of their relationship. Rose said she was Gabby's friend for two years, and did mention what what might be relevant information. I dont think this is a completely text book case, and I wonder if parents know more about who Brian really was...is. And if there are other issues. But, not to be discuss on WS.
 
citizen_sleuth said:
Good afternoon everyone!

Now that we know the cause of death was manual strangulation, I wanted to add some additional information about what could happen next. Hang on, this is going to be a long (but hopefully informative) post.

DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer or forensic pathologist, nor do I claim to know exactly how the autopsy was conducted in this case. These are my own opinions.

Determination of manual strangulation
Upon receiving the body of a victim who died by strangulation, it is up to the coroner to determine the method of strangulation used. Autopsies in all three forms of strangulation––ligature, manual, and hanging––commonly reveal hemorrhages in the soft tissue of the neck as well as fractures of the hyoid bone and/or the thyroid cartilage, all of which can be used to reconstruct the method used and the sequence of events which transpired (Gascho et al. 85). Petechial bleeding (i.e., subcutaneous bleeding in the eyelids) is also typical in all three types of strangulation (Deininger-Czermak et al. 99). Interestingly, the presence of lymph node hemorrhage is a distinct diagnostic sign indicating manual strangulation as the manner of death as it is not present in cases of hanging (Yen et al. 509).

Given that all three types of strangulation share so many commonalities, additional examination in the form of postmortem CT and MRI scans are frequently used to more accurately determine the manner of death, which is what happened in Gabby's case. In conjunction with the standard autopsy measures, Gabby's autopsy consisted of a whole-body CT scan as well as examinations by both a forensic pathologist and forensic anthropologist. Postmortem CT scans are used to detect pathologies, injuries, fractures, and foreign bodies while postmortem MRI scans are employed to get a more detailed look at soft tissue lesions such as bruises (Gascho et al. 85). The fact that the Teton County Coroner undertook a postmortem CT rather than an MRI suggests to me that the autopsy revealed a fracture(s) in her neck which conclusively suggested manual strangulation, since MRIs are usually relied upon in suspicious cases (Deininger-Czermak et al. 102).

Possible physical evidence implicating Brian
Unfortunately, despite the up-close-and-personal nature of manual strangulation, evidence such as hand marks and fingerprints are difficult to match and are generally inconclusive in the absence of distinctive physical abnormalities (Kristensen, Lynnerup, & Sejrsen 383). Additionally, in 55.9% of fatal manual or ligature strangulation cases the associated violence is insufficient to produce forensic evidence aside from a mildly disturbed scene (Cartwright 297)

Although it is possible Brian's DNA was found on Gabby's neck, due to the fickle nature of DNA evidence and the conditions in which her body was left it is unlikely his DNA will be recovered. DNA transferred from the offender to the victim and vice versa can be recovered and amplified for at least 10 days after the contact, but conclusive identification is usually hindered by the presence of secondary/tertiary DNA profiles (Rutty 170). In addition to the offender's DNA being transferred to the victim's neck during manual strangulation, the offender's DNA and third party (or more) DNA from direct contact and/or contact with an object is also deposited, making it next to impossible to obtain conclusive results (Rutty 172). For example, one experimental study found that during a simulated assault, 23% of neck areas swabbed showed nondonor alleles and 5% showed six or more nondonor alleles (Graham and Rutty 1077).

If Brian strangled Gabby in the past, there is a possibility that her body "recorded" that history of domestic violence. Increased mobility of one side of the hyoid bone without associated hemorrhage visible to the naked eye points to a prior strangulation incident which can be confirmed by using microscopy to identify the healing fracture (Davison and Williams 310). The discovery of such a fracture would help establish a pattern of abusive behavior beyond the Moab traffic stop.

The legal case against Brian
Yesterday on this thread there was some debate over whether or not manual strangulation is prima facie evidence of premeditation, but unfortunately there isn't a clear-cut answer to this. As part of their murder statutes, 29 states, the District of Columbia, and the federal government all employ a premeditation or deliberation formula (Ferzan 84).

In 1994, the Court of Appeal in San Francisco held that while manual strangulation may demonstrate deliberation, "there is nothing about it that inherently demonstrates premeditation" and reduced the first-degree murder conviction of a man convicted of strangling his girlfriend. In another instance of a domestic violence-related fatal strangling of 32-year-old Pennsylvania woman, a judge rejected the prosecution's plea for a first-degree murder
conviction and reduced it to third-degree despite noting that the strangulation pointed to premeditation.

On the other hand, courts have previously recognized that premeditation does not have a time constraint, and have held that even seemingly instantaneous decisions can be classified as premeditated. In the West Virginia case of State v. Schrader, the victim was suddenly stabbed fifty-one times by the defendant following an argument in the gun shop over the authenticity of a German sword. The trial judge informed the jury that "to constitute a willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing, it is not necessary that the intention to kill should exist for any set length of time prior to the actual killing" (Pauley 151-2). The defendant appealed his conviction on the grounds that his crime did not qualify as premeditated, but the West Virginia Supreme Court of Appeals affirmed the conviction on the grounds that "the mental process necessary to constitute 'willful, deliberate, and premeditated' murder can be accomplished. . . in the proverbial 'twinkling of an eye.'"

When it comes to federal law, serious theoretical differences exist within each circuit as to what is considered premeditation (Oberlander 1213). The Federal Sentencing Guidelines established with the passage of the Sentencing Reform Act of 1984 create a "base offense level" which serves as the applicable, legally-binding guideline for a particular offense that acts as the basis for subsequent calculations, but this does not come into play until sentencing (Anderson, Kling, and Stith 279). For a federal felony-murder conviction, codified in 18 U.S.C. § 1111, the government must prove the death of another person and a culpable mens rea ("malice aforethought") for the death were elements of the offense, something which could be difficult in Brian Laundrie's case barring additional evidence such as phone records (Noyes 536).

Sources
Anderson, James M., Jeffrey R. Kling, and Kate Stith. "Measuring Interjudge Sentencing Disparity: Before and After the Federal Sentencing Guidelines." Journal of Law and Economics 42, no. S1 (1999): 271-308

Carmichael, Heather, Ethan Jamison, Kirk A. Bol, Robert McIntyre Jr, and Catherine G. Velopulos. "Premeditated versus “passionate”: patterns of homicide related to intimate partner violence." Journal of Surgical Research 230 (2018): 87-93.

Cartwright, A. J. "Degrees of Violence and Blood Spattering associated with Manual and Ligature Strangulation: a retrospective study." Medicine, Science and the Law 35, no. 4 (1995): 294-302.

Craig, John. "Man faces murder charges for death: Victim's family thinks she was raped, killing was planned." Spokesman-Review [Spokane], 5 March 2004, pg. B4.

"DA blasts ruling on killing." San Francisco Examiner, 21 October 1994, pg. P-8.

Davison, Andrew M., and E. John Williams. "Microscopic evidence of previous trauma to the hyoid bone in a homicide involving pressure to the neck." Forensic Science, Medicine, and Pathology 8, no. 3 (2012): 307-311.

Deininger-Czermak, Eva, Jakob Heimer, Carlo Tappero, Michael J. Thali, and Dominic Gascho. "Postmortem Magnetic Resonance Imaging and Postmortem Computed Tomography in Ligature and Manual Strangulation." American Journal of Forensic Medicine and Pathology 41, no. 2 (2020): 97-103. [WARNING: Graphic images]

Ferzan, Kimberly Kessler. "Plotting Premeditation's Demise." Law and Contemporary Problems 75, no. 2 (2012): 83-108.

Gascho, Dominic, Jakob Heimer, Carlo Tappero, and Sarah Schaerli. "Relevant findings on postmortem CT and postmortem MRI in hanging, ligature strangulation and manual strangulation and their additional value compared to autopsy–a systematic review." Forensic Science, Medicine and Pathology 15, no. 1 (2019): 84-92.

Graham, Eleanor Alison May, and Guy Nathan Rutty. "Investigation into “Normal” Background DNA on Adult Necks: Implications for DNA Profiling of Manual Strangulation Victims." Journal of Forensic Sciences 53, no. 5 (2008): 1074-1082.

Hathaway, Ivan J. "Prosecutors to seek death penalty for killer." Tampa Tribune, 30 March 1989, pg. 1-P.

Kristensen, Mie E., Niels Lynnerup, and Birgitte Sejrsen. "Comparison of Handmarks in Manual Strangulation: An Experimental Study." Journal of Forensic Sciences 51, no. 2 (2006): 381-385.

Malloy, Daniel. "Boyfriend found guilty of third-degree murder." Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, 17 June 2009, pgs. B-1, B-2. [part 1] [part 2]

Mooney, Michael G. "Judge orders Mouser to trial: Bail reduced by half for accused murderer." Modesto Bee, 20 February 1998, pgs. A-1, A-14. [part 1] [part 2]

Noyes, Henry S. "Felony-Murder Doctrine Through the Looking Glass." Indiana Law Review 69, no. 2 (1994): 533-579.

Oberlander, Sharon L. "Departing the Heartland: Should Premeditation Serve as the Basis for Departure from the Federal Sentencing Guidelines for Second-Degree Murder?." Boston University Law Review 78 (1998): 1211-1234.

Pauley, Matthew A. "Murder by Premeditation." American Criminal Law Review 36, no. 2 (1999): 145-169.

Rutty, G. N. "An investigation into the transference and survivability of human DNA following simulated manual strangulation with consideration of the problem of third party contamination." International Journal of Legal Medicine 116, no. 3 (2002): 170-173.

Yen, Kathrin, Michael J. Thali, Emin Aghayev, Christian Jackowski, Wolf Schweitzer, Chris Boesch, Peter Vock, Richard Dirnhofer, and Martin Sonnenschein. "Strangulation Signs: Initial Correlation of MRI, MSCT, and Forensic Neck Findings." Journal of Magnetic Resonance Imaging 22, no. 4 (2005): 501-510.
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THANK YOU @citizen_sleuth
Wonderful job.
 
citizen_sleuth said:
Good afternoon everyone!

Now that we know the cause of death was manual strangulation, I wanted to add some additional information about what could happen next. Hang on, this is going to be a long (but hopefully informative) post.

DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer or forensic pathologist, nor do I claim to know exactly how the autopsy was conducted in this case. These are my own opinions.

Determination of manual strangulation
Upon receiving the body of a victim who died by strangulation, it is up to the coroner to determine the method of strangulation used. Autopsies in all three forms of strangulation––ligature, manual, and hanging––commonly reveal hemorrhages in the soft tissue of the neck as well as fractures of the hyoid bone and/or the thyroid cartilage, all of which can be used to reconstruct the method used and the sequence of events which transpired (Gascho et al. 85). Petechial bleeding (i.e., subcutaneous bleeding in the eyelids) is also typical in all three types of strangulation (Deininger-Czermak et al. 99). Interestingly, the presence of lymph node hemorrhage is a distinct diagnostic sign indicating manual strangulation as the manner of death as it is not present in cases of hanging (Yen et al. 509).

Given that all three types of strangulation share so many commonalities, additional examination in the form of postmortem CT and MRI scans are frequently used to more accurately determine the manner of death, which is what happened in Gabby's case. In conjunction with the standard autopsy measures, Gabby's autopsy consisted of a whole-body CT scan as well as examinations by both a forensic pathologist and forensic anthropologist. Postmortem CT scans are used to detect pathologies, injuries, fractures, and foreign bodies while postmortem MRI scans are employed to get a more detailed look at soft tissue lesions such as bruises (Gascho et al. 85). The fact that the Teton County Coroner undertook a postmortem CT rather than an MRI suggests to me that the autopsy revealed a fracture(s) in her neck which conclusively suggested manual strangulation, since MRIs are usually relied upon in suspicious cases (Deininger-Czermak et al. 102).


Respectfully snipped for focus


.
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I am guessing you are right about the CT scan showing at least microfractures in the cervical vertebrae. And of course the fracture of the hyoid bone and perhaps cartilage tears were visible to the eye.

Sadly, I think most of the soft tissue was gone - so the telling petechial hemorrhages would not be visible in the eyes or lungs (or other places). Still, I am optimistic since the weather is so dry that the underside of the body would have preserved some of that evidence - all of it pointing to manual strangulation. While no one can say. exactly how large the hands of the strangler are, a good forensic study should give a range and I am certain Brian will fall within that range. It's also possible that some bruising was visible on parts of the body. Bones were not scattered. The news of a blanket being involved is huge (it will be a blanket from their van...it will have both Gabby's and Brian's DNA on it, no one else's except perhaps a Laundrie family member who might have touched it). That blanket may have preserved more forensic material than I originally thought.

The reason for no MRI is as you state - it's for soft tissue analysis. That probably wasn't available.

Thank you for all the citations.
 
10ofRods said:
Just for context, the entire population of Wyoming is about half of the county where I live: 578,756 people in Wyoming. And that's in ~98,900 square miles - almost twice the size of England and over 3X the size of Scotland, for comparison.

Teton County has about 23,300 people in 4,216 square miles - so relatively populated and entirely due to the NP tourism infrastructure. Jackson has a population of 10,500 - so half of the people in the county live there.

Unlike Alaska, which is only about 85% land and the rest is water, Wyoming is 99% land - desolate, open, dry and windy.

I mention these facts to give perspective on how truly rural the area near Spread Creek is - the Moran Junction area has about 10-15 people living near it. Colter Bay is busy, because it's in the park. Many gas stations on the route through Wyoming have no attendants, especially at night, but I'd guess they have cameras these days.

Since people were asking about BL's "comfort zone," I'd say "not Merry Piglets and not downtown Moab." He liked going to that preserve in FL. There's no evidence that he was ever into gaming, but I believe he was into comics and book reading - solitary activities. He did a *lot* of drawing and had become notably proficient at linoleum stamp carving - a painstaking art requiring concentration and diligence. He did both small format and large format painting and had talent (not sure he still does - creativity requires a certain state of mind).

A guy like him would have a hard time establishing a relationship with any girl, it does not surprise me that they got together in high school. He was born in North Port, though, according to online searches. I do not think many women who are looking for men online will swipe on Brian (and everyone who does online dating wants real pictures of the person and will ghost a person if they try to meet and the person looks different than expected).

I don't see him as a guy who has "game." I do wonder what he's using for money and where he got it, if he is alive. I'm not sure he's alive. I'm not sure he can live without the conditions that gave him happiness and creativity. I can see him jumping off a cliff in some wilderness or national park...far from the crowds, though.
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I always respect your opinion on the many cases we follow. And this is a good one. I can’t see BL as someone who could kill himself. I would be surprised. The way he ran away seems like a coward. I don’t think he wants to die. But I don’t know him.
 
mommacass said:
Immediate family members are usually told in advance of coroner's report. MOO
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I'm glad to hear that confirmed.
My heart always goes to family members when information is released. It means they are out of the immediate shock and it's settling in slowly. Then the rush starts again when the public become informed and they're faced with the onslaught in full momentum.
They must be in such awful shock!
 
Love Never Fails said:
Yes and you would do it for his welfare. I would rather visit my son in prison than visit his grave. And I would want him to face her parents and apologize. I realize how hard that might be and that they most likely would reject the apology, but it’s called doing the right thing.
But we are here today because BL chose the wrong thing all the way around.
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Agree with you 100%
 
Gardenista said:
Black and orange? I wonder if it was the tent
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We have so many tents for different purposes, so we have a pop up one that sleeps two and we have ones for more people and to give us more space if we’re camping longer, it’s very possible they had more than one tent. Maybe it was his tarp he slept on or a sleeping bag because it did look puffy, obviously I can’t say with certainty but I definitely mentioned to my husband that her feet were in an awkward position which is why I didn’t think it was at the time, the hiking boots would explain this.

ETA - just to add that our pop up one is really small and compact so they definitely would have space for something similar in their small van.
 
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Okiruy said:
I think the same. What I don’t understand is why he hung around there for two or so more days. Why hitchhike if he had the van? Why stay in the area at all? It just seems weird to me that he wouldn’t flee immediately.
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Maybe she was killed in the van and he didn’t know what to do with her for those couple of days but didn’t want to risk driving around with her body so hitchhiked to get food, supplies or whatever and then finally placed her body out away from the road and then left for FL. JMO
 
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