CA CA - Malibu John Doe, 20-30, UP15043, found with swiss francs in his pockets, Jan'86

[jellabiafro]

You're right. It was a bit of a stretch. It's just that something about him and the way he was dressed, and the time of year, suggests to me he was not a typical tourist. The Michael Jackson shirt likely came to the US with him and the Heineken shirt seems like a freebie from some European event.

I think that's definitely the outfit of someone who came to have a good time and party in California. As you said : The MJ shirt likely came to the US with him (Made in portugal) and the Heineken shirt (made in Portugal aswell) also indicates Europe. We got the confirmation through the Doe Network (who contacted Heineken) that the polo he was wearing was not a collaborator's shirt, it was random merch (we still don't know if it's a knock off or not). But yeah. The outfit, NYE, the location he was found at this points out at "party person"

 

[jellabiafro]

Hey folks. Good news. We got a journalist/documentary crew gathered this morning and the whole group is really motivated by digging deeper into the case . We are now looking for some local sleuths to help us getting more closure on the 80's Malibu / Ventura County area, someone who would be ok making phone calls and eventual local searches. We have contacted Swiss LE and will do our searching part here at the same time. If someone here is up for it, DM me !

 

[Bit of hope]

Hey folks. Good news. We got a journalist/documentary crew gathered this morning and the whole group is really motivated by digging deeper into the case . We are now looking for some local sleuths to help us getting more closure on the 80's Malibu / Ventura County area, someone who would be ok making phone calls and eventual local searches. We have contacted Swiss LE and will do our searching part here at the same time. If someone here is up for it, DM me !

You are amazing!!! Thank you!

 

[jellabiafro]

Uh oh... I just clicked on his profile on namus. The page has been taken down... How comes ? Do you think it has been solved ?


EDIT : MY BAD, NAMUS SEEMS TO EXPERIENCE THIS WITH ALL PAGES

 

[jellabiafro]

Darn. It's still down. I can't access any profile page on the website. So weird.

 

[Bit of hope]

Darn. It's still down. I can't access any profile page on the website. So weird.

I have the same problems...no access...maybe it's down due to technical problems or maintenance...but mostly they communicate when it's maintenance....

 

[Cryptic]

But to narrow things down...let's start with the assumption, this man was a Swiss (or combined) national.

Going for a long shot......

The deceased was wearing a lot of Portuguese clothing. The number of pieces of clothing could imply that they were purchased in Portugal over a period of time.

Portuguese is also a Latin based language. Italian, spoken in a Swiss canton is also Latin based. Perhaps the deceased is an Italian speaking Swiss who spent time in Portugal due to the related languages? French is also romance based, but Italian, Spanish and Portuguese are "sisters" linguistically. French is more of a "cousin".

Another poster pointed out that his shirt logo had an English spelling /grammar error on it as well as a slightly clumsy, though correct English sentence construction. They then raised the possibility of it being an unlicensed "knock off".

The Azores islands are a self governing part of Portugal in the Atlantic. Perhaps due to the islands self governance, remoteness, island culture etc. the police put copyright enforcement on a very, very low priority? "Knock off" clothing is plentiful in the Azores?

The deceased also likes beaches and associated lifestyles. Thus.....

The Italian speaking Swiss heads to Portugal (easy language to learn for him). Then heads to the Azores for the island vibes and beaches, where he buys some knock off Heineken logo clothing. Beer, and beer logoed clothing just go with islands and beaches.

Wanting to continue his beach lifestyle world tour (well, until her runs out of money and needs to return home), he then heads for United States in general and SOCAL's beaches in particular.

 

[jellabiafro]

Going for a long shot......

The deceased was wearing a lot of Portuguese clothing. The number of pieces of clothing could imply that they were purchased in Portugal over a period of time.

Portuguese is also a Latin based language. Italian, spoken in a Swiss canton is also Latin based. Perhaps the deceased is an Italian speaking Swiss who spent time in Portugal due to the related languages? French is also romance based, but Italian, Spanish and Portuguese are "sisters" linguistically. French is more of a "cousin".

Another poster pointed out that his shirt logo had an English spelling /grammar error on it as well as a slightly clumsy, though correct English sentence construction. They then raised the possibility of it being an unlicensed "knock off".

The Azores islands are a self governing part of Portugal in the Atlantic. Perhaps due to the islands self governance, remoteness, island culture etc. the police put copyright enforcement on a very, very low priority? "Knock off" clothing is plentiful in the Azores?

The deceased also likes beaches and associated lifestyles. Thus.....

The Italian speaking Swiss heads to Portugal (easy language to learn for him). Then heads to the Azores for the island vibes and beaches, where he buys some knock off Heineken logo clothing. Beer, and beer logoed clothing just go with islands and beaches.

Wanting to continue his beach lifestyle world tour (well, until her runs out of money and needs to return home), he then heads for United States in general and SOCAL's beaches in particular.

Portugal and Spain were the main export countries for clothing and fabric across Europe before the Asian market took off. We would wear a lot of italian shoes, spanish jeans and portuguese t-shirts. But still, you are right, he could've bought his outfit in Portugal, from beach/street markets where I do recall (from my trips to Spain with my parents for instance) seeing a lot of MJ, Bob Marley, the Doors "knock off" t shirts. So he totally could've bought them from a trip to Lisboa, but also from a street/festival vendor in Switzerland.

His outfit also probably tells us something else : he wasn't a rich guy, otherwise he would've been wearing some better quality clothes. He probably did party on the beach with local surfers/LA folks that didn't belong to the "usual Malibu scene".

Also, he could be Ticinese (from the swiss italian part) ; but more likely of Portuguese descent living in Switzerland. Portuguese community in Switzerland is big and already was in the 80's. They basically built our country, they are committed hard workers.

Right now we are awaiting Swiss LE's help to identify this gentleman, through their national files, which are hard to access unless you have a valid or legit reason to do so. Let's wait and see ! Even if he was Portuguese or Italian ; if he was based in Switzerland and was reported missing at some point, he must be in those files.

 

[jellabiafro]

I have received the autopsy report and the toxicology.

What I can say here is there a few weird points I'd like people to give me their thoughts on :

- He had no drugs in his system, only 0.02% of alcohol and caffeine. Nothing else. The investigator asked to run a toxicology in order to see if he was smuggling coke or a coke addict himself : negative.
(While we all thought he came to party hard and was probably super wasted at the time of death)

- Heads shows no sign of trauma, BUT
He has cuts on his body that probably took place shortly after he died.
There are two small symetrical cuts above the eyelids, under the eyebrows. (0,8-0.9 cm)

Here's a weird element not disclosed on Namus :
- "Tied around the neck quite tightly up under the chin above the Adam's apple is a double wrap of cloth, cotton like grey with vertical black and light red stripes which is attached through the handles of a plastic shopping bag like device. The bag is approx 13.5 to 15inches, the bottom half has been eroded or chipped open. The material itself appears to have been taken from something like a sports shirt or some such device"
What could this be ? Some kind of weird street arts&crafts ? a "punk rock DIY necklace ?

I am trying to get ahold on other documents.

 

[Bit of hope]

I have received the autopsy report and the toxicology.

What I can say here is there a few weird points I'd like people to give me their thoughts on :

- He had no drugs in his system, only 0.02% of alcohol and caffeine. Nothing else. The investigator asked to run a toxicology in order to see if he was smuggling coke or a coke addict himself : negative.
(While we all thought he came to party hard and was probably super wasted at the time of death)

- Heads shows no sign of trauma, BUT
He has cuts on his body that probably took place shortly after he died.
There are two small symetrical cuts above the eyelids, under the eyebrows. (0,8-0.9 cm)

Here's a weird element not disclosed on Namus :
- "Tied around the neck quite tightly up under the chin above the Adam's apple is a double wrap of cloth, cotton like grey with vertical black and light red stripes which is attached through the handles of a plastic shopping bag like device. The bag is approx 13.5 to 15inches, the bottom half has been eroded or chipped open. The material itself appears to have been taken from something like a sports shirt or some such device"
What could this be ? Some kind of weird street arts&crafts ? a "punk rock DIY necklace ?

I am trying to get ahold on other documents.

Thank you. Is known what the cause of death was? The cloth/bag thing around his neck is hard for me to imagine. Could it have something to do with sexual asphyxiation?

 

[jellabiafro]

Thank you. Is known what the cause of death was? The cloth/bag thing around his neck is hard for me to imagine. Could it have something to do with sexual asphyxiation?

I wonder. Cause of death is listed under "drowning" but it's not clear (no water in the lungs). It doesn't say the piece of cloth was tied to a death-leading point though.

 

[Bit of hope]

I wonder. Cause of death is listed under "drowning" but it's not clear (no water in the lungs). It doesn't say the piece of cloth was tied to a death-leading point though.

IMO if there was no water in the lungs he was already dead when he went into the water.

 

[Cryptic]

IMO if there was no water in the lungs he was already dead when he went into the water.

I think there are two physiological reactions to drowning deaths (awful). One is known as "wet drowning" where there is water in the victim's lungs.

The other is known as "dry drowning" where the victim's diaphram? (or some other body part closes?) and keep water out. Evidently, some victim's bodies will instinctually give a "dry" reaction. Others, however, will be "wet".

 

[BrownBear]

When water enters the larynx or trachea, both conscious and unconscious persons experience laryngospasm, in which the vocal cords constrict, sealing the airway. This prevents water from entering the lungs. Because of this laryngospasm, in the initial phase of drowning, water generally enters the stomach, and very little water enters the lungs. Though laryngospasm prevents water from entering the lungs, it also interferes with breathing. In most persons, the laryngospasm relaxes sometime after unconsciousness, and water can then enter the lungs, causing a "wet drowning." However, about 7–10% of people maintain this seal until cardiac arrest. This has been called "dry drowning", as no water enters the lungs. In forensic pathology, water in the lungs indicates that the person was still alive at the point of submersion. An absence of water in the lungs may be either a dry drowning or indicates a death before submersion.

Via Drowning - Wikipedia

 

[Bit of hope]

When water enters the larynx or trachea, both conscious and unconscious persons experience laryngospasm, in which the vocal cords constrict, sealing the airway. This prevents water from entering the lungs. Because of this laryngospasm, in the initial phase of drowning, water generally enters the stomach, and very little water enters the lungs. Though laryngospasm prevents water from entering the lungs, it also interferes with breathing. In most persons, the laryngospasm relaxes sometime after unconsciousness, and water can then enter the lungs, causing a "wet drowning." However, about 7–10% of people maintain this seal until cardiac arrest. This has been called "dry drowning", as no water enters the lungs. In forensic pathology, water in the lungs indicates that the person was still alive at the point of submersion. An absence of water in the lungs may be either a dry drowning or indicates a death before submersion.

Via Drowning - Wikipedia

Very good explained, the both of you. Thanks.

 

[jellabiafro]

IMO if there was no water in the lungs he was already dead when he went into the water.

I get your point, but :
No mortal (inside/outside) lesions have been reported by the ME (nor strangulation or anything similar) ; they haven't detected anything abnormal in blood and urine samples, all organs were described as normal

Very good explained, the both of you. Thanks.

Yes, thank you very much @BrownBear and @Cryptic

 

[MarziPanda]

My immediate thought is that the bag attached to the cloth tied around his neck may have contained something heavy to weigh him down with (whether he was dead before he hit the water or not). The bottom half had eroded so there's no way of knowing for sure. I thought this man's death was probably an accident because of intoxication, but the autopsy changes that. No drugs, possibly weighed down in the water... possible homicide. Could also maybe be a suicide and he wanted to weigh himself down so he didn't have a chance of saving himself, I suppose. But I'm starting to lean towards the former.

 

[jellabiafro]

It makes sense but the fact that there is no lesion on the throat makes me think the thing attached around him was more of a weird necklace. He also has something similar on the side of the left sock : a "piece of cloth tied in granny knots", like some kind of bracelet or something

 

[jellabiafro]

I have a strange feeling about this one. When we all thought he was partying hard and probably ended up in the water because of that. The man wasn't wasted. I am really starting to think something real bad happened to him before dying and it wasn't just a simple accident.

 

[Bit of hope]

Back to thinking he fell off of was thrown off a ship or sailing yacht. Maybe pirates stole his yacht....just pondering....wouldn't they have stolen the money too. Falling off seems weird without somebody noticing and you would think this would have been reported.