GUILTY OH - Pike Co, 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #66
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Gilgo Beach LISK Serial Killer, Rex Heuermann, charged with 4 murders, July 2023 #10
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almond
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Screwed that up?
So basically we have a toxic Narcissist using word salads to defend a sociopath. Where's the justice.
So basically we have a toxic Narcissist using word salads to defend a sociopath. Where's the justice.
Unfortunately we get to see this stuff play out every day. Maybe we should focus more education on critical thinking skills.Thanks for putting that so succinctly.
I might be wrong but I thought the way the charges 1-8 were worded that it didn’t matter if the defendant was the actual shooter or not, who ever was present during the crime was also considered guilty.
Covert Operative
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From what I understood even if they were not present they would be just as guilty but AW seemed to get a break so to speak. They were like her hitmen and went and did the job for her. At the time of the indictments and up to the confessions I do not think they knew who shot who so that may have made a difference to them once they found out is all I can think.
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I agree . AW got way too good of a deal .
That is true, but the defense doesn't have to argue their case based on the truth. They can argue in the alternative, meaning they can make up a lot of stuff. They'll throw every excuse or explanation they can at the wall to see what sticks.
One way of seeing what "sticks" in a killer's defense is to file motions with artful wording and gauge the public reaction. These days they can even put it out into social media and see how many people will believe the argument that the defendant "wasn't there" or "didn't kill anyone", etc. With social media today, discussing a well known case can yield many chances to try out "alternate" arguments and push public opinion in favor of setting the killer free.
JMO
I hope AC was able to get some very important and powerful testimony from Angela Wagner in exchange for that deal. Also, having 2 of the four killers admit to the crimes is very powerful.
I agree, it was too good for her. I believe if not for her, this entire horrific murder plan would never have happened. JMO, she had the power to stop the escalation of anger and vengeance instead of fanning the flames.
Screwed that up?
So basically we have a toxic Narcissist using word salads to defend a sociopath. Where's the justice.
Unfortunately we get to see this stuff play out every day. Maybe we should focus more education on critical thinking skills.
I had a message board for years. What shocked me was how bad college students were with spelling, grammar, punctuation, etc.. I don’t know how they could have passes a written exam unless those things didn’t count. This type of lawyer language would have looked fine to them.
Covert Operative
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Apparently the state believed AW and JW. If JW said in his proffer that G4 did not shoot anyone or kill anyone and the state accepted that as truthful, then of course G4 defense will use that however they can.
I believe she led the planning and sent her family down the river.
True. When I worked for a very large corporation, I was shocked at how many men in upper management (there were no women) who had poor spelling and grammar skills. The VP's had secretaries to write things for them, but the Asst. VP's I worked for needed help. We all had the same 4 yr degrees, them usually at more expensive private schools, yet here I was having to check their grammar, math, spelling, etc. I was like "Dude, WTH?" I finally wised up on why I was being assigned to write all the reports.
The only explanation for aw I can yhink/hope for is that she is terminally ill. Between all the Dr stuff maybe she won't make it 30 years. Maybe the 30 is equiivalent to life and that's why the deal was offered. Or she told something could lead to a federal Rico for Billy and others. Did jake have all those guards during his guilty plea? I just don't understand why they cit her a deal. If I'm on the jury 1 I'd believe zero of her testimony 2 it allows angela to coorborate statements by jake which were untrue and mitigated g4s case. 4 they indicted all 4 on dp specifications without jake. So they thought they'd win before without murder weapon vehicles and witnesses now they have all that- who needs angela? Very very strong case without her 5 it really cheapens the entire case giving a press conference about no deals dp only, then drop all the way down to 30 with zero murder charge 6 defense lawyers will use thus to hint the states investigation was compromised in some way or tgat killing the family had mitigating circumstances we kno how hard Angela's lawyer were trying fir that before plea 7 it's just wrong. Straight up miscarriage of justice
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Angela gets 30 years total with no probation plus she pled guilty to 14 charges all part of the 8 murders conspiracy. The 3 families seem to feel this helps bring the justice they need and accepted this deal.
Angela has 27 more years to sit in prison with no early release and the more I think about it the more I understand the families accepting this deal.
I do not think the families will accept this deal of 30 years for George 4. I think they will want him to get LWOP. Just my thought on it. I can't picture the families wanting George to get out when he is just in his late 50's.
A family member spoke to the media angrily saying Angela was not sorry and 30 years is more than what her family was given.
That anger makes it obvious to me that George is going to end up with LWOP. Remember, the families have to OK any plea deals.
George back in handcuffs and prison clothes after his April 28th Hearing, his first Hearing after Jake's guilty plea.
https://www.wcpo.com/news/state/sta...s-confession-to-rhoden-murders?_amp=trueApril
Here is what I think will happen with George:
George will go to trial plain and simple. Even if George were offered Angie's deal, and I do not see this happening, but even if he were, he would not take it and he would go to trial.
He doesn't want any prison time period. He has already tried to get Bond twice, against all odds.
See, if George were interested in some type of deal he would have already taken it by now - it's been 3 years! Way long enough to go over deals with his attorneys and mull over and over in his cell alone - with the Bible he says he reads.
Smoke and mirrors, red herrings, that's what all this business of "didn't shoot nobody" reminds me of. This guy George was at the UHR crime scenes, even possibly on Left Fork Rd., and will in the end get the book and kitchen sink thrown at him.
Angela has 27 more years to sit in prison with no early release and the more I think about it the more I understand the families accepting this deal.
I do not think the families will accept this deal of 30 years for George 4. I think they will want him to get LWOP. Just my thought on it. I can't picture the families wanting George to get out when he is just in his late 50's.
A family member spoke to the media angrily saying Angela was not sorry and 30 years is more than what her family was given.
That anger makes it obvious to me that George is going to end up with LWOP. Remember, the families have to OK any plea deals.
George back in handcuffs and prison clothes after his April 28th Hearing, his first Hearing after Jake's guilty plea.
https://www.wcpo.com/news/state/sta...s-confession-to-rhoden-murders?_amp=trueApril
Here is what I think will happen with George:
George will go to trial plain and simple. Even if George were offered Angie's deal, and I do not see this happening, but even if he were, he would not take it and he would go to trial.
He doesn't want any prison time period. He has already tried to get Bond twice, against all odds.
See, if George were interested in some type of deal he would have already taken it by now - it's been 3 years! Way long enough to go over deals with his attorneys and mull over and over in his cell alone - with the Bible he says he reads.
Smoke and mirrors, red herrings, that's what all this business of "didn't shoot nobody" reminds me of. This guy George was at the UHR crime scenes, even possibly on Left Fork Rd., and will in the end get the book and kitchen sink thrown at him.
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BBM - I agree.
MO
AW is a vindictive person. I'm thinking she gave up lots of good information way beyond the specific scope of this case.
Especially info to substantiate RICO for Billy and others. Others, meaning relatives, friends, business partners, those who looked the other way while Pike County became infamous.
Also think 30 years is a life sentence for her. Good.
So, even though this deal for AW seems to be much less than we hoped, nothing for State or AC to be ashamed of. AW will provide for additional important prosecutions way beyond this case. Probably Jake will too.
G4 is just a pawn for his Lawyers advertising.
Billy?
MO
MO
Really do think AC was able to and will continue to get valuable information from AW.
Also thinking AW and Billy did not have a good or happy relationship.
SO, …”hell hath no fury”…
AW possibly could have stopped this all in the very early stages, ( I agree, she started it) but once the plan got traction and Billy developed more
and more animosity against CRsr, I believe Billy could not be stopped.
I, too, find it hard to believe that AC and the surviving families would agree to anything less than LWOP for GW4. His being on site at the murder scenes and participating in any fashion makes him complicit IMO.Angela gets 30 years total with no probation plus she pled guilty to 14 charges all part of the 8 murders conspiracy. The 3 families seem to feel this helps bring the justice they need and accepted this deal.
Angela has 27 more years to sit in prison with no early release and the more I think about it the more I understand the families accepting this deal.
I do not think the families will accept this deal of 30 years for George 4. I think they will want him to get LWOP. Just my thought on it. I can't picture the families wanting George to get out when he is just in his late 50's.
A family member spoke to the media angrily saying Angela was not sorry and 30 years is more than what her family was given.
That anger makes it obvious to me that George is going to end up with LWOP. Remember, the families have to OK any plea deals.
George back in handcuffs and prison clothes after his April 28th Hearing, his first Hearing after Jake's guilty plea.
https://www.wcpo.com/news/state/sta...s-confession-to-rhoden-murders?_amp=trueApril
Here is what I think will happen with George:
George will go to trial plain and simple. Even if George were offered Angie's deal, and I do not see this happening, but even if he were, he would not take it and he would go to trial.
He doesn't want any prison time period. He has already tried to get Bond twice, against all odds.
See, if George were interested in some type of deal he would have already taken it by now - it's been 3 years! Way long enough to go over deals with his attorneys and mull over and over in his cell alone - with the Bible he says he reads.
Smoke and mirrors, red herrings, that's what all this business of "didn't shoot nobody" reminds me of. This guy George was at the UHR crime scenes, even possibly on Left Fork Rd., and will in the end get the book and kitchen sink thrown at him.
IMO, his grandmother is really pushing this "he was there but didn't shoot anybody so he should get the same deal as his mother" defense. If the ploy were to work, GW4 would not only be out when he is still young enough to try and build some type of relationship with his son (providing his son wants anything to do with him, of course), BUT GW4 would also be young enough to run his grandmother's farm. I think that is her main concern in all of this, not her love for GW4. She and her husband built this farm up and she wants to be sure someone will be there to run it after she and her daughter are gone. JMO
BBM, I totally agree. IMO, she ratted out BW's other crimes as a payback for him being physically and emotionally abusive to her. Other acts evidence clearly states he pulled a gun on her in the past. She can get away with punishing him now because because he's locked up. She couldn't strike back before because she was afraid he'd kill her...just like he did CRSR who stood toe-to-toe with BW and wouldn't back down. CRSR did the right thing and stood up for his daughter and, unfortunately, the price he paid was his life. JMO
Also IMO, if AW gave info to AC about crimes committed by her mother-in-law and FWF, that's just the icing on the cake for AW. As you say, AW is vindictive, and IMO AW has always been jealous because she wasn't the "queen bee" and couldn't run things. IMO, that's the reason for the name "Defiance Farms". AW was defying FW's authority. JMO
As someone who helped plan and carry out the murder of 8 innocent people, GW4 won't and shouldn't be allowed anywhere near his children. Rebuilding what kind of a relationship? Why should this child be burdened with maintaining a relationship with a mass murderer? He's already going to live the rest of his life with the stigma of being related to him.
Children's needs should be first and foremost and that means not being parented by a mass murderer.
As for GW4's grandmother, she could care less about any of her great grandchildren. It doesn't appear she tried to have any relationship with them in the past, why now? She just wants free labor to run her "farm".
Tiff23fr
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Mod Note:
Questions have been reported on the acceptability of discussing the possibility that George Wagner IV may not have shot any victims. Given the excerpt below from the attached article, it is determined this is a permitted line of discussion.
Excerpt:
In the paperwork filed Friday, defense attorneys Richard Nash Jr. and John Parker write that the written and recorded confessions of the others make it clear “that George Washington Wagner IV did NOT shoot and kill any of the victims.”
Pike County Rhoden case: George Wagner IV attorneys say he shot no one
Questions have been reported on the acceptability of discussing the possibility that George Wagner IV may not have shot any victims. Given the excerpt below from the attached article, it is determined this is a permitted line of discussion.
Excerpt:
In the paperwork filed Friday, defense attorneys Richard Nash Jr. and John Parker write that the written and recorded confessions of the others make it clear “that George Washington Wagner IV did NOT shoot and kill any of the victims.”
Pike County Rhoden case: George Wagner IV attorneys say he shot no one
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