Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #138

[heartgoesout]

We have the much discussed bridge photos, taken by the friends hiking with changing time stamps at the crime scene.
We have FSG who heard arguing at the bridge (crime scene). What and who did he really hear?
We have a much discussed arguing couple at the crime scene. Was this really a couple? Or was it BG arguing with the girls?
These are the people there at the location and time of the murders.
IMO if BG isn’t an invisible phantom and killers lie and evil is untruthful and the couple wasn’t a couple but rather one person deduction allows for the person present at the crime scene to be BG. IMO

 

[Zabble]

We have the much discussed bridge photos, taken by the friends hiking with changing time stamps at the crime scene.
We have FSG who heard arguing at the bridge (crime scene). What and who did he really hear?
We have a much discussed arguing couple at the crime scene. Was this really a couple? Or was it BG arguing with the girls?
These are the people there at the location and time of the murders.
IMO if BG isn’t an invisible phantom and killers lie and evil is untruthful and the couple wasn’t a couple but rather one person deduction allows for the person present at the crime scene to be BG. IMO

I hear what your saying, but it relies on a lot of assumptions.

What is the source stating FSG HEARD an arguing couple? We don’t know that from what I can tell.

Also, this theory relies on the fact that BG was at the bridge, came forward as a witness and said he was there with a girl at the bridge (i.e. the couple). On top of that, another witness, a girl, stated she saw this couple there.

Your theory relies on the fact that BG has a lot of power over 2 seperate girls to ensure that even 4 years on they BOTH are lying to LE stating that 1 was at the bridge with BG and the second girl saw BG and this couple.

Throw in the fact that FSG stated there was a couple down at / by the bridge- we’re on territory where 2 seperate witnesses confirmed the existence of the couple

It’s just not realistic IMO

 

[Thelastleg]

I hear what your saying, but it relies on a lot of assumptions.

What is the source stating FSG HEARD an arguing couple? We don’t know that from what I can tell.

Also, this theory relies on the fact that BG was at the bridge, came forward as a witness and said he was there with a girl at the bridge (i.e. the couple). On top of that, another witness, a girl, stated she saw this couple there.

Your theory relies on the fact that BG has a lot of power over 2 seperate girls to ensure that even 4 years on they BOTH are lying to LE stating that 1 was at the bridge with BG and the second girl saw BG and this couple.

Throw in the fact that FSG stated there was a couple down at / by the bridge- we’re on territory where 2 seperate witnesses confirmed the existence of the couple

It’s just not realistic IMO

The "arguing couple" came from the conversation between Derrick German and FSG. FSG said that (paraphrasing) he hadn't seen two girls when asked by Derrick, but he heard a couple arguing. Derrick then decide to take the lower trail to the creek. We have debated up thread whether it was at the bridge, or under the bridge. The source of this is Betty & Mike Patty interview with Gray Hughes. this is on Youtube dated 20th August 2018

 

[heartgoesout]

EDIT TO SAY. NOT SURE WHY THE POST QUOTED WIERD.

I hear what your saying, but it relies on a lot of assumptions.

What is the source stating FSG HEARD an arguing couple? We don’t know that from what I can tell.

Also, this theory relies on the fact that BG was at the bridge, came forward as a witness and said he was there with a girl at the bridge (i.e. the couple). On top of that, another witness, a girl, stated she saw this couple there.

Your theory relies on the fact that BG has a lot of power over 2 seperate girls to ensure that even 4 years on they BOTH are lying to LE stating that 1 was at the bridge with BG and the second girl saw BG and this couple.

Throw in the fact that FSG stated there was a couple down at / by the bridge- we’re on territory where 2 seperate witnesses confirmed the existence of the couple

It’s just not realistic IMO

Agreed, all theories rely on some assumption. IMO it is a very realistic and plausible theory. All disagreement on a theory also requires assumptions...
So there is a couple. Everyone assumed it is the same couple that the other was talking about. Is it?
And again this relies on everyone telling the truth. Killers lie.

 

[heartgoesout]

The "arguing couple" came from the conversation between Derrick German and FSG. FSG said that (paraphrasing) he hadn't seen two girls when asked by Derrick, but he heard a couple arguing. Derrick then decide to take the lower trail to the creek. We have debated up thread whether it was at the bridge, or under the bridge. The source of this is Betty & Mike Patty interview with Gray Hughes. this is on Youtube dated 20th August 2018

Correct, family has confirmed the arguing couple statement.
We just don't know who the arguing couple wasn't a couple at all but BG and the girls, being that it was at the same time and the same location as the crime.

 

[MollyDDD]

Correct, family has confirmed the arguing couple statement.
We just don't know who the arguing couple wasn't a couple at all but BG and the girls, being that it was at the same time and the same location as the crime.

When I think about hearing a “couple” arguing, I imagine hearing two adults raising their voices at each other.
IMO, a lot different than two very scared, very young girls and a strange grown man who is planning to kill them both.

 

[MollyDDD]

I don't see him getting much of a break, but we'll see. A sentence of less than 30 years would surprise me.

60 to 120 years. He’s never getting out, and thankfully, he doesn’t want to. IMO

 

[AC4RD]

Where is that (who all the known searchers are) sort of info written down to read?

Italics by me. Sunny, I've wondered the same thing--part of the reason I was trying to read the "Timeline" posts. I haven't found it documented anywhere, though there's a LOT of material I haven't seen yet. The other message about FSG telling DG about the couple--is FSG the only source for "the couple" information? I know one POI has been identified as one of the two, but I haven't yet found any good written sources for that. Too much data, too little time!

 

[heartgoesout]

When I think about hearing a “couple” arguing, I imagine hearing two adults raising their voices at each other.
IMO, a lot different than two very scared, very young girls and a strange grown man who is planning to kill them both.

Sure, cause no one expects a double murder to be happening.
Also as someone pointed out earlier we really don’t know exactly what he reported he heard. LE repeatedly says they have a lot of evidence. We can hope this witness gave vital info.

 

[heartgoesout]

Italics by me. Sunny, I've wondered the same thing--part of the reason I was trying to read the "Timeline" posts. I haven't found it documented anywhere, though there's a LOT of material I haven't seen yet. The other message about FSG telling DG about the couple--is FSG the only source for "the couple" information? I know one POI has been identified as one of the two, but I haven't yet found any good written sources for that. Too much data, too little time!

It’s been super confusing and I think someone’s tried to keep it confusing. JMO

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

Question:
For those who think that there are two people involved in this atrocity, do you think that these potential people are of the same sex, or one male and one female?
Just wondering, and NOT trying to speculate or start rumors!!

 

[JnRyan]

Question:
For those who think that there are two people involved in this atrocity, do you think that these potential people are of the same sex, or one male and one female?
Just wondering, and NOT trying to speculate or start rumors!!

I tend to believe it is a lone killer. Statistics would probably bear this out as the most likely scenario. Although, I do find it interesting that Sheriff Leazenby has stated they haven't ruled out more than one person being involved. Interesting you throw out a male-female team as that is not something I've considered. While multiple person killer teams are not as common as a lone killer, I would imagine a male-female teams are even less common. While I'm sure there are more than one example, the only serial killer team I can think of at the moment is a Canadian couple. (Assuming Abigail and Liberty are serial killer victims since that apparently isn't known.) A male-female couple might introduce a certain element to a murder such as this. IOW, would two teenage girls be more likely to go along believing that a female might appear to be less threatening?

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

Why hasn’t LE divulged what FSG’s name is? Does he even exist? Why are there so many unknown, unnamed people surrounding this case?
Moo-ing here, I find it very bizarre that there is so much unknown about Abby & Libby’s case. Through my eyes and POV it seems like they have little interest in solving this case, and/or the person(s) responsible are of some importance/pedigree (for lack of a better term), and are somehow, in some way, shape, form or fashion invincible to the law. Maybe because they are the law???!? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
MOO, moo, cow.

 

[JnRyan]

We have the much discussed bridge photos, taken by the friends hiking with changing time stamps at the crime scene.
We have FSG who heard arguing at the bridge (crime scene). What and who did he really hear?
We have a much discussed arguing couple at the crime scene. Was this really a couple? Or was it BG arguing with the girls?
These are the people there at the location and time of the murders.
IMO if BG isn’t an invisible phantom and killers lie and evil is untruthful and the couple wasn’t a couple but rather one person deduction allows for the person present at the crime scene to be BG. IMO

Is the "arguing couple" connected to the crime in any way? FSG mentioned them but I don't remember if they were identified. Could someone have lied?

I find it interesting that I've never heard ANY witness state they saw Abigail and Liberty on the trails that day and the last person to see them - besides the killer, obviously - is apparently Liberty's sister when she dropped them off. (Of course, it is possible LE has found a witness who did see them but for a reason or reasons that deem it essential to the investigation they kept it under wraps.) So I find it interesting that have one witness who heard an arguing couple, but did not see Abigail and Liberty. If we go on ISP 1st Sgt Holeman's statement at CrimeCon the original sketch came from multiple witnesses. So we more than one witness who saw this unidentified man on the trails that day. Since we apparently don't have a witness or witnesses that saw the murder or a person at the crime scene area this sketch was likely arrived at by process of elimination by LE trying to ID everyone on the trails that day. IOW, we have a sketch produced from more than one witness that saw this man that day, but no witnesses who saw Abigail and Liberty? (This assumes they were all describing the same man.) I don't what to make of this with a witness or witnesses who saw the unidentified man and apparently no witnesses stating they saw Abigail and Liberty.

I guess this just fuels my doubt that if Abigail and Liberty might have not been seen by witnesses that day, did the killer enter the trails that day, commit the murders and left without being seen? IOW, is the man in either of these sketches only connection to the crime is that he merely has not been identified? I firmly believe the man in Liberty's video IS the killer. I just don't get the warm and fuzzy feeling that either sketch is definitely of the killer. And to get back to your discussion, my train of thought here assumes none of the witnesses lied and it is still confusing to me with that assumption.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

It’s been super confusing and I think someone’s tried to keep it confusing. JMO

Whyyyyyyy?

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

Is the "arguing couple" connected to the crime in any way? FSG mentioned them but I don't remember if they were identified. Could someone have lied?

I find it interesting that I've never heard ANY witness state they saw Abigail and Liberty on the trails that day and the last person to see them - besides the killer, obviously - is apparently Liberty's sister when she dropped them off. (Of course, it is possible LE has found a witness who did see them but for a reason or reasons that deem it essential to the investigation they kept it under wraps.) So I find it interesting that have one witness who heard an arguing couple, but did not see Abigail and Liberty. If we go on ISP 1st Sgt Holeman's statement at CrimeCon the original sketch came from multiple witnesses. So we more than one witness who saw this unidentified man on the trails that day. Since we apparently don't have a witness or witnesses that saw the murder or a person at the crime scene area this sketch was likely arrived at by process of elimination by LE trying to ID everyone on the trails that day. IOW, we have a sketch produced from more than one witness that saw this man that day, but no witnesses who saw Abigail and Liberty? (This assumes they were all describing the same man.) I don't what to make of this with a witness or witnesses who saw the unidentified man and apparently no witnesses stating they saw Abigail and Liberty.

I guess this just fuels my doubt that if Abigail and Liberty might have not been seen by witnesses that day, did the killer enter the trails that day, commit the murders and left without being seen? IOW, is the man in either of these sketches only connection to the crime is that he merely has not been identified? I firmly believe the man in Liberty's video IS the killer. I just don't get the warm and fuzzy feeling that either sketch is definitely of the killer. And to get back to your discussion, my train of thought here assumes none of the witnesses lied and it is still confusing to me with that assumption.

MOO. JMO. Of course someone could have lied. In fact multiple someones according to this study: 60% of People Can't Go 10 Minutes Without Lying

Also, by the original sketch do you mean the first one that wasn’t released until 2019, or the one that LE first circulated?

 

[JnRyan]

MOO. JMO. Of course someone could have lied. In fact multiple someones according to this study: 60% of People Can't Go 10 Minutes Without Lying

Also, by the original sketch do you mean the first one that wasn’t released until 2019, or the one that LE first circulated?

Sorry for the confusion. By "original" sketch I mean the first one released and that was in the summer of 2017. The sketch that was released in April 2019 was actually drawn first - within days or a week or so after the murders.

 

[MollyDDD]

Why hasn’t LE divulged what FSG’s name is? Does he even exist? Why are there so many unknown, unnamed people surrounding this case?
Moo-ing here, I find it very bizarre that there is so much unknown about Abby & Libby’s case. Through my eyes and POV it seems like they have little interest in solving this case, and/or the person(s) responsible are of some importance/pedigree (for lack of a better term), and are somehow, in some way, shape, form or fashion invincible to the law. Maybe because they are the law???!? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
MOO, moo, cow.

I suspect the same.

 

[Lavender Moon]

I suspect the same.

Me, too.

 

[heartgoesout]

The biggest case in the state and LE takes 6 months to release a sketch. Why? Because "witnesses" couldn't agree? And why couldn't they agree? Of course someone lied regarding the first released sketch or they wouldn't have released the second one.
JMO IMO MOO et al