Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021

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People keep saying that they show the actor an empty chamber, well that doesn't make sense if the chamber is supposed to hold blanks. Not all gun scenes are the same. Some have empty guns with the sounds coming from production. Some are loaded with blanks that pop like a fire cracker and shows a flash. It is not as easy to notice the difference between a blank bullet and a real bullet while it sits in the chamber.
 
What ppl hate is the fact that a person was KILLED at work place.
AB being liked or not has nothing to do with the issue I think.
While that may be true for you, it's not necessarily so for others. There are a wide range of reactions and comments from the public.
 
People keep saying that they show the actor an empty chamber, well that doesn't make sense if the chamber is supposed to hold blanks. Not all gun scenes are the same. Some have empty guns with the sounds coming from production. Some are loaded with blanks that pop like a fire cracker and shows a flash. It is not as easy to notice the difference between a blank bullet and a real bullet while it sits in the chamber.
Excellent point. But in this case, “court records indicate that an assistant director, Dave Halls, grabbed a prop gun off a cart and handed it to Baldwin, indicating incorrectly that the weapon didn't carry live rounds by yelling "cold gun”." He had no business stating that if he didn’t load it himself (where he would have noticed the dif) or watched the armorer load it. They are supposed to truly look. Industry experts say they load it in front of the actor so that everyone sees clearly what is going into the gun. That was not done here.

Rust AD Who Gave Alec Baldwin Gun Had History of Unsafe Practices, Reveals Technician
 
People keep saying that they show the actor an empty chamber, well that doesn't make sense if the chamber is supposed to hold blanks. Not all gun scenes are the same. Some have empty guns with the sounds coming from production. Some are loaded with blanks that pop like a fire cracker and shows a flash. It is not as easy to notice the difference between a blank bullet and a real bullet while it sits in the chamber.
In this case they were rehearsing so the gun didn't need to be loaded with blanks. If anyone had bothered to check they would have found the gun was loaded with something and this tragedy would have been prevented. JMO.
 
But see this is the big problem with using real weapons on a set. I agree that a gun should NEVER be pointed at another person and if a person handles one they should personally check that it is not loaded. But on a film set we’re talking about actors who might not have ever even seen a gun up close. You want that person to open it and check for whether it’s loaded and if so with what? Actors would be shooting themselves in the face left and right. That’s just crazy to expect all actors on every set to be knowledgeable enough to do that. That’s why they have to rely on the people whose sole JOB is to make sure it’s safe. Obviously that makes no sense to conscientious gun owners who are taught individual responsibility, but it does not work in this situation. You can literally have tens of actors with guns in their hands on a set in a scene. No way every single one is experienced enough with guns to even know what they looking at if they’re even able to open it up without incident. It just makes sense for the industry to adopt new rules banning real weapons in filming. MOO
Actors train for roles in many ways. They adopt exercise routines and diet habits to build or lose muscle tone & bulk up or down, they sometimes grow out their hair or shave their heads, they may learn (at least tid-bits of) new languages, they sometime shadow professionals that work in an industry or job so that they can become familiar with subtle behaviors or mannerisms, they learn to mimic dialects from specific locals, ... and I'm sure this list goes on well beyond items im familiar with or could list here. Would it really be too much to expect of them to take a basic gun safety course to earn the right to work on a set where guns would be used? If that's been too much to ask in the past, perhaps it shouldn't be in the future.
 
bbm

“Chief electrician recalls fatal shooting on Alec Baldwin film set: "I was holding her in my arms while she was dying"…

…“Jeffrey Wright, who has worked on projects including the James Bond franchise and the upcoming movie "The Batman," was acting with a weapon on the set of "Westworld" when news broke of the shooting Thursday at a New Mexico ranch. "We were all pretty shocked. And it informed what we did from that moment on," he said in an interview Sunday at the Newport Beach Film Festival.

"I don't recall ever being handed a weapon that was not cleared in front of me - meaning chamber open, barrel shown to me, light flashed inside the barrel to make sure that it's cleared," Wright said. "Clearly, that was a mismanaged set."

Actor Ray Liotta agreed with Wright that the checks on firearms are usually extensive.”
Chief electrician recalls details in Alec Baldwin shooting: "I was holding her in my arms while she was dying" - CBS News
 
People keep saying that they show the actor an empty chamber, well that doesn't make sense if the chamber is supposed to hold blanks. .
The armorer interviewed in Betty P's post stated that if the weapon is supposed to be empty, he shows the actor that it is, in fact, empty.

Likewise, if it is supposed to be loaded with blanks for live ammunition, he loads the pistol with the appropriate ammunition in front of the actor.

My guess is that he also declares something like: "This weapon is now loaded with live ammunition" before giving to him as a final safety procedure.
 
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when he gives the gun to the actor, he opens and loads it in front of them, so they see what he's doing.

If it's to be unloaded, he opens and shows them the empty gun. Sure, it takes more time, but he thinks its the best way to take that last safety step before giving it to the actor.

He also said he alone controls all weapons on set. No one else is allowed to touch or handle them at any time. He keeps them locked up when they're not being used..

Decades ago, I trained with blank ammunition for a law enforcement position. The instructors followed those procedures to a "t":

- Nobody was allowed to bring issued weapons or magazines to the range that day (instructors checked holsters and carriers when we formed up outside).

- Only weapons and magazines being used were range weapons provided by and controlled by the instructors.

- We went into the building, two trainees to a desk. Two empty weapons and four empty magazines were on each desk. All were then re-verified as empty.

- Instructors came by and counted out enough blanks for the excercise on each desk. Both trainees and the instructor verified that they were blanks. Then, I watched my partner load his magazines and weapon with the blanks. He then watched me.

We then repeated the procedure through out the day. I was later informed that the SWAT team followed the exact same procedures as the trainees- no matter how SWATish they were.
 
I still think there are multiple failures prior to AB. One, there should NEVER be live rounds on a set - I mean ever. That is protocol. So, I think the buck starts with who brought a live round to set?? Next, there were at least 3 people who handled the gun prior to AB. A gun with a live round should NEVER have reached him. Chain of command is there for a reason - and one reason is safety!

Personally, I think the production company will be sued by the victim. They cut corners by rushing non-union (local) workers on to the set to replace the union workers. AB even commented that the workers should strike because they were being treated like $h1t. I am sorry, but this was a big failure by the production company.
 
BBM:

So stress, overwork, production schedule & deadlines aside, who bears responsibility for Halyna Hutchins’ death & Joel Souza’s injury? Faces with names need to be held accountable, imo.


The production company is the start of responsibility - cutting corners and allowing chaos over safety. It sounds like the AD bears some responsibility, and the armorer bears a great deal of responsibility. Who allowed a loaded gun on set?? Who allowed a live round on set??
 
There is the question if it was a set up for a murder, as of course LE must consider, especially with the disagreements earlier in the day when people quit and were replaced with non union workers, which obviously was stressful, judging by Souza's own account in the affidavit.
ETA someone put a live round in the gun, for whatever reason, we don't know.

From the NYT link:
Mr. Souza was grappling with delays the day of the shooting, after about six members of the camera crew had quit over late pay and safety conditions, the affidavit said. Another crew had quickly been hired, but the production was off to a late start because of the labor problems. Mr. Souza said only one camera was available for recording before the shooting.

Asked about “the employees’ behavior,” Mr. Souza told investigators that “everyone was getting along” and that there had been “no altercations” to his knowledge.

The affidavit also includes notes from an interview with Reid Russell, a cameraman who was standing near Ms. Hutchins and Mr. Souza when the gun discharged.

Mr. Russell told the detective that after returning to the set from lunch, he had stepped outside for about five minutes; when he returned, according to the affidavit, Mr. Baldwin, Ms. Hutchins and Mr. Souza were setting up the scene and were already “in possession of the firearm.” Mr. Russell said he was not sure if the firearm had been inspected because he had been absent for those five minutes.
I had originally missed this quote attributed to Mr Souza when I first read the article cited in that comment - so thank you for including it in your post here.
Mr. Souza said only one camera was available for recording before the shooting.
It's been mentioned that a standard practice is to use a remotely controlled camera for shots where a gun needs to be pointed in the general direction of the camera (along with other safety measures which don't appear to have been employed). The quote here mentions that there was only one camera available. Could it be that this specific camera couldn't be operated remotely? I wonder if any cost-cutting measures may have contributed to there only being one camera available or what its capabilities may have been. ...or if it was just a matter of them already being behind schedule so there was a decision made to not use a remote camera as it may take longer to obtain and/or set up.
 
Personally, I think the production company will be sued by the victim. They cut corners by rushing non-union (local) workers on to the set to replace the union workers. AB even commented that the workers should strike because they were being treated like $h1t. I am sorry, but this was a big failure by the production company.

I think the story is more complex...

What matters most regarding employees in the legal sense is competency- not union membership nor lack thereof.

Likewise, only a portion of the unionized staff left. Other union members on different crews stayed. The union crew that left had been offered a motel close to the set, but they deemed the motel to be a "homeless shelter" and thus unacceptable.

The departing union crew could be right- perhaps the motel did not meet industry minimal norms for even a low budget movie. Then again, not every demand made by union members is reasonable.

The truth might be in the murky middle.....
 
Piers Morgan is certainly no expert.
It's actually a good article.

"Other industry experts were aghast at the Baldwin shooting.

Jeffrey Wright, who has worked on the James Bond franchise and the upcoming movie 'The Batman', said: 'I don't recall ever being handed a weapon that was not cleared in front of me — meaning chamber open, barrel shown to me, light flashed inside the barrel to make sure that it's cleared. Clearly, that was a mismanaged set.'

Actor Ray Liotta agreed: 'They always — that I know of — they check it so you can see. They give it to the person you're pointing the gun at, they do it to the producer, they show whoever is there that it doesn't work.'

More questions then: why did Alec Baldwin not insist on being shown the gun was safe? Why did he point it directly at his co-workers, if that is strictly prohibited?

Alec Baldwin must have known about the gun discharge incidents, and crew concerns over the armorer's inexperience and the assistant director's record of dangerous on-set safety misconduct, because he wasn't just a jobbing actor on the movie – he was a named Executive Producer.

So, if he didn't know, he should have ensured he knew.

And he should have also ensured his gun really was 'cold' before he aimed it at his co-workers and killed a talented young woman."
 
bbm

“Chief electrician recalls fatal shooting on Alec Baldwin film set: "I was holding her in my arms while she was dying"…

…“Jeffrey Wright, who has worked on projects including the James Bond franchise and the upcoming movie "The Batman," was acting with a weapon on the set of "Westworld" when news broke of the shooting Thursday at a New Mexico ranch. "We were all pretty shocked. And it informed what we did from that moment on," he said in an interview Sunday at the Newport Beach Film Festival.

"I don't recall ever being handed a weapon that was not cleared in front of me - meaning chamber open, barrel shown to me, light flashed inside the barrel to make sure that it's cleared," Wright said. "Clearly, that was a mismanaged set."

Actor Ray Liotta agreed with Wright that the checks on firearms are usually extensive.”
Chief electrician recalls details in Alec Baldwin shooting: "I was holding her in my arms while she was dying" - CBS News
I saw this Ray Liotta comment earlier. That seems reasonable to me. I don't know what the actual rules/guidelines are, but I can tell you this; I am a shooting enthusiast and am well familiar with firearms. If I were an actor on a set in a role that called for me to point a gun at someone, there is NO WAY I am going to do that without personally ensuring that the gun is unloaded or, the case me be, loaded with blanks. I don't have to open the chamber myself, but the armorer or prop manager is going to do it in front of me so I can see.
 
While not being particularly 'fond' of AB, I certainly wouldn't want to be in his shoes either. Can you say PTSD? The absolute horror, the shock, the grief, the guilt, the shame, the regret!? I have personally lived with periods of shame, guilt and regret. Those alone are hideous by themselves. But thankfully my experiences did not end with the death of someone that I had a hand in. I cannot even imagine!

Should he ( AB) carry this baggage..this load.. all by himself? Absolutely not! Many others (who had a part in this) are most likely doing the same. I hope they all are getting some help. They will need it.
 
Next, there were at least 3 people who handled the gun prior to AB. A gun with a live round should NEVER have reached him. Chain of command is there for a reason - and one reason is safety!
Actor Ray Liotta agreed: 'They always — that I know of — they check it so you can see. They give it to the person you're pointing the gun at, they do it to the producer, they show whoever is there that it doesn't work.'

More questions then: why did Alec Baldwin not insist on being shown the gun was safe?
In addition to chain of command, the Army- and probably the military as a whole, has a protocol where even the most junior soldier can order "Cease fire" if they notice something unsafe on a training range.

If a "cease fire" order is heard, it must be obeyed instantly, no matter the rank of the person who gave it. All weapons must be made safe and the problem resolved.

I wonder if the movie industry has that protocol?
 
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