Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #101

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Hi my WS Friends. Can someone answer a question I have? Not being political, but how is a mandate for vaccinations legal? Is there something written? All I saw was a press conference.

I am vaccinated, but waiting to see what my employer will do (10,000 employees).

TIA

I’m going to wing it in answering because I don’t feel like taking the time to research, even though Google is my friend, as I often say. :D So FWIW, I would think that the government (and employers) have broad legal rights to mandate requirements for public (and employee) safety and health. I don’t think these mandates have to go through a legislative process to become law. But I’m sure the mandates are written down and available online as they are in my state (Oregon).

Someone else’s research may prove me wrong about this.
 
I’m going to wing it in answering because I don’t feel like taking the time to research, even though Google is my friend, as I often say. :D So FWIW, I would think that the government (and employers) have broad legal rights to mandate requirements for public (and employee) safety and health. I don’t think these mandates have to go through a legislative process to become law. But I’m sure the mandates are written down and available online as they are in my state (Oregon).

Someone else’s research may prove me wrong about this.

Thank you, Lilibet! Makes sense.
 
Florida Surgeon General Refuses to Wear Mask, is Told to Leave Meeting — NBC 6 South Florida

“Florida’s top health official was asked to leave a meeting after refusing to wear a mask at the office of a state senator who told him she had a serious medical condition, officials have confirmed.

Florida Senate leader Wilton Simpson, a Republican, sent a memo to senators Saturday regarding the incident at the office of Democratic state Sen. Tina Polsky, asking visitors at the building to be respectful with social interactions. Polsky, who represents parts of Broward and Palm Beach counties, had not yet made public her breast cancer diagnosis.

Polsky told The Associated Press about the tense exchange with state Surgeon General Joseph Ladapo that was first reported by the news site Florida Politics. She said Ladapo and two aides were offered masks and asked to wear them when they arrived for the Wednesday meeting, saying she had a serious condition.

Ladapo offered to go outside, but the senator said she did not want to sit on the metal picnic tables on a warm day when her office was nice and spacious. She said she asked whether there was a reason why he couldn’t wear a mask, but he wouldn’t answer.”

Geez.
 

What a fascinating and very kind article! Thanks. A couple of paragraphs toward the end jumped out at me because we’ve even heard this way of thinking stated in so many words by some here who don’t seem to understand that, by their very nature, scientific guidelines change, especially with something brand new like the novel coronavirus.

From the link:
I wonder if they, too, are just not equipped with scientific and media literacy. In an article titled “Conspiracy of Censorship by the Medical Mafia & Totalitarian Tyrants,” TTAC founders wrote, “From the origin of COVID-19 to the best prevention methods, it seems like the truth continues to change as time marches on. But the truth — by definition — is constant; like true north or gravity, it is absolute and unchanging.”

To me, it seems like they simply lack an understanding of the scientific method. Rather than staying consistent, scientific thinking and guidelines always naturally evolve in light of new data.
BBM
My loved ones are caught in a web of conspiracy theories — here’s what it’s like
 
So I just came in from seeing my first Covid era Broadway show (Six) and I have to say that the theater did an amazing job. Mid block theater with a line to end of block, they had several people (masked) going down the line checking ID's and vaccine cards (if under 11 a PCR test result from last 48 hours) you then received a stamp on your hand to show you were checked. Went super smooth, as you approached the entrance to theater you were told to have your tickets out and mask on, they made an announcement several times on speaker that masks must be worn while you were in the theater. Everyone complied, there were no issues and the show was fantastic!
 
Dayton doctors answer reader questions: Why do the vaccinated care if others are unvaccinated?

Local experts quoted in this article are: — Dr. Roberto Colón, chief medical officer at Premier Health's Miami Valley Hospital. — Dr. Michael Klatte, chief of infectious disease at Dayton Children's Hospital. — Dr. Jeffrey Weinstein, patient safety officer at Kettering Health.

Q: Colin Powell was fully vaccinated against COVID-19 but he still died of coronavirus. Does that mean the vaccines are ineffective?

Colón: Unfortunately, no vaccines are 100% effective and sadly, this is an example of an infrequent occurrence of vaccinated individuals who do not survive an infection. Patients with weakened immune systems such as persons undergoing treatment for cancer are more susceptible to these breakthrough infections because the protection achieved from vaccines is either lower than in healthy individuals or weakens faster than other people.

Weinstein: Vaccines are highly effective at preventing COVID-19 infections and even more effective at preventing hospitalization and death. In Colin Powell's case, he was at high risk due to his age (84) and underlying diagnosis of cancer, which factored into his death.

Q: If the coronavirus vaccine is effective, why do the vaccinated care if others choose not to be vaccinated?

Klatte: We know that unvaccinated individuals are much more likely to be infected with COVID-19 compared to those who are vaccinated. The longer the virus circulates in the population and the more people it's able to infect, the greater the odds are that it develops genetic mutations, allowing it to evade immunity produced by immunization (as well as immunity generated by prior infection). The more genetic mutations the virus develops, the greater the possibility of the virus also developing resistance to our currently effective treatments. Stopping the virus from circulating is key — and this is best achieved through vaccination.

Colón: Because these vaccines are not 100% effective, being exposed to more infected individuals in the community increases the exposure unnecessarily. This is particularly significant to our older individuals and those with weakened immune systems who may be more likely to have breakthrough infections. Additionally, having people remain susceptible to infection because they have not been immunized raises the risk of another variant emerging that could be more likely to evade protection from vaccines or previous infections. The goal should be to ensure as many people are immunized against COVID-19 as quickly as possible.

Q: If coronavirus vaccines are effective, why are additional/booster shots recommended?

Weinstein: Through time, the effectiveness of many vaccines wane and then booster shots are required. The tetanus vaccine is a good example — booster shots are needed every 10 years. Currently, booster doses of the COVID-19 vaccines are recommended for certain age groups and at-risk groups because the protection may be less after many months.

Klatte: The primary goal of vaccination is to prevent severe disease, hospitalization and death due to COVID-19. Preventing symptomatic illness and preventing infection entirely are secondary aims of COVID-19 vaccination. During the time between when COVID vaccines were first made widely available to the public and now, we've seen the emergence of the highly infectious Delta variant. We've also seen gradually decreased vaccine effectiveness against prevention of symptomatic illness in people who were vaccinated earliest — including health care and other essential workers, people over 65 years of age, and those with underlying risk factors for severe disease. There has also been a small increase over time of the number of people over 65 years who were vaccinated earliest and who have been hospitalized due to COVID-19 infection. For otherwise healthy individuals under 65 years, the initial vaccination series continues to provide excellent protection against severe disease, hospitalization and death.

Colón: The need for boosters is not uncommon with vaccines. Many of us have been getting routine boosters since our childhood. Boosters are needed when the amount of protection decreases over time and are necessary to act as a reminder to our immune system to maintain protection, against COVID-19 in this case.
 
An Unexpected Pandemic Consequence Frustrates Florida's Biggest City
Thousands of complaints concerning Jacksonville delayed trash recycling pickup | firstcoastnews.com
Jacksonville might use federal recovery money on waste collection fix

The disruption to America’s economy created by the coronavirus pandemic has led to mass cancellations of school buses and ferries, to rental-car shortages and a bottleneck of cargo ships waiting at seaports. And, in cities such as Jacksonville, it has created a small but growing indignity: garbage left out to rot.

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The pandemic delays have not been limited to Florida. Dozens of communities have experienced similar trouble. Atlanta began offering $500 signing bonuses to trash haulers, and garbage pickups were delayed in Denver. In Collingswood, New Jersey, just outside Philadelphia, municipal workers had to pick up the trash themselves earlier this summer after the borough’s waste hauler announced that it had no drivers: “We’re just not coming in,” the mayor said he was told.
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In Jacksonville, the delays in waste hauling became so bad in late summer and early fall that piles could be seen all over town. The city prioritized trash when it could, but yard debris was left to linger.
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The blame for the trash problems around the country lies with a labor shortage that predates the pandemic but has been exacerbated by it, said David Biderman, executive director of the Solid Waste Association of North America.

“Recruiting and retaining workers is perhaps the biggest challenge that solid waste companies and local governments have with sanitation,” he said. “COVID was the perfect storm.”
 
Montana's attorney general went rogue and sent a state trooper into a hospital after doctors refused to give a COVID-19 patient ivermectin, official says

Montana officials dispatched a state trooper to a Helena hospital amid a dust-up over the doctors' refusal to treat a COVID-19 patient with ivermectin.
  • A Montana state trooper showed up when doctors refused to treat an 82-year-old COVID-19 patient with ivermectin earlier this month, the hospital told local media outlets.
  • A county official told Insider the state's attorney general didn't have the authority to send the state trooper to the dispute.
  • Montana Democrats are now pushing for an investigation into the attorney general's decision.

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The patient at the center of the dispute had been admitted to St. Peter's Health in Helena in mid-October, and was put on a treatment plan that was "not working," according to a Facebook post from the Montana Federation of Republican Women.

The post added that the patient requested a prescription for ivermectin, but was denied by the hospital. When she obtained a prescription from an outside doctor, the hospital told her she would have to check out if she wanted to take it, the post said.

The hospital told the Montana Billings Gazette in a statement that amid the dispute, three public officials contacted doctors about their treatment. The hospital did not name the officials.
 
Hi my WS Friends. Can someone answer a question I have? Not being political, but how is a mandate for vaccinations legal? Is there something written? All I saw was a press conference.

I am vaccinated, but waiting to see what my employer will do (10,000 employees).
I believe the legal basis comes from case law, rather than a specific written document (since the founders of the US had never heard of vaccines). Past challenges have gone to the Supreme Court, which has upheld the rights of governments and employers to require vaccinations as part of their policing function, in order to create security, order and a healthy environment for citizens. So criminal justice, public health, anti-pollution laws, would all come under this aspect of government power in the constitution.

However, there are new constitutional challenges and it's always possible that, when it eventually is heard by the Supreme Court, they could formulate a different opinion.

Jacobson v. Massachusetts - Wikipedia

ETA: the article notes the anti-vaxx campaign dates back to this decision in 1905!
 
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I’m sorry to hear that. I was actually pleasantly surprised that I would be able to get it at my doctor’s office.

I did some searching on line and found out that the Oakland County Health Dept has clinics open for boosters- there are several different clinics- some are walk in and some are drive thru. I think I will utilize one of those clinics as opposed to a pharmacy. After I read about the pharmacist in Indiana who gave a family covid-19 shots instead of the flu vaccine they requested, was off-putting. Two of those children were very young and got the full dose of Covid-19 vaccine and got very sick. I can see how that could happen in a pharmacy setting.
 
I did some searching on line and found out that the Oakland County Health Dept has clinics open for boosters- there are several different clinics- some are walk in and some are drive thru. I think I will utilize one of those clinics as opposed to a pharmacy. After I read about the pharmacist in Indiana who gave a family covid-19 shots instead of the flu vaccine they requested, was off-putting. Two of those children were very young and got the full dose of Covid-19 vaccine and got very sick. I can see how that could happen in a pharmacy setting.
In defense of pharmacies, my local RiteAid (where I go for scripts, etc) administered the flu shot in one arm and the Moderna booster in the other just last Monday, 10/19. I asked for the booster when I went in to ask for the flu shot, as it had been 8 months since my second dose. Pharmacist called her boss for permission since Moderna booster was still in the process of being officially approved. She got it and then proceeded to give me both shots. They were professional and congenial there as always.
 
In defense of pharmacies, my local RiteAid (where I go for scripts, etc) administered the flu shot in one arm and the Moderna booster in the other just last Monday, 10/19. I asked for the booster when I went in to ask for the flu shot, as it had been 8 months since my second dose. Pharmacist called her boss for permission since Moderna booster was still in the process of being officially approved. She got it and then proceeded to give me both shots. They were professional and congenial there as always.

Good that you had a positive experience: I imagine most boosters given in pharmacies go well, but that case in Indiana kind of bothers me-----
 
I believe the legal basis comes from case law, rather than a specific written document (since the founders of the US had never heard of vaccines). Past challenges have gone to the Supreme Court, which has upheld the rights of governments and employers to require vaccinations as part of their policing function, in order to create security, order and a healthy environment for citizens. So criminal justice, public health, anti-pollution laws, would all come under this aspect of government power in the constitution.

However, there are new constitutional challenges and it's always possible that, when it eventually is heard by the Supreme Court, they could formulate a different opinion.

Jacobson v. Massachusetts - Wikipedia

ETA: the article notes the anti-vaxx campaign dates back to this decision in 1905!

Thanks, @Satchie! I’ve been trying to find info and I appreciate this!
 
Good that you had a positive experience: I imagine most boosters given in pharmacies go well, but that case in Indiana kind of bothers me-----

We have a good relationship with our pharmacist at our local pharmacy, we have been going to her for the last ten years or more. She is incredibly professional and trustworthy, but I would not go to a pharmacy where I didn't know their reputation personally. Her pharmacy only has Pfizer, so my husband will get his booster shot there, both of us got our flu vaccine there, but I have to go to a local hospital clinic for my Moderna booster. Scheduled for today.
 
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