Found Deceased UK - Leah Croucher, 19, Emerson Valley, Milton Keynes, 14 Feb 2019 #5

[JuicyLucy]

This is a great concept but in the absence of it - more resources needed. We don't know if there is a perp out there waiting to do harm to someone else. The consequences of getting things like this wrong are catastrophic.

We've seen it time and again - Yorkshire ripper, Wayne Couzens, Libby Squires' killer, Warboys nearly being released, the Night Stalker, even Robert Napper - dots not being connected due to lack of resources, technology, communication, not taking reports of lesser crimes seriously. So frustrating. Makes me wonder about the state of the world in future.

I agree totally. It's a huge problem and one that I personally am very engaged with. There are 43 different police forces in England and Wales and they all differ in what data they capture in relation to missing episodes and how thoroughly they process that data - and that's the incoming data. Outgoing data is an even bigger nightmare, as FOIA requests are commonly rejected on the basis that the time it would take to fulfil them is unreasonable (and so falls outwith what a force is obliged to comply with). So we know that data capture is a problem, but we don't even know what exactly the problem is or the scale of it or how amenable to redesign it is. Scotland actually has a different definition of a missing person from E&W, so that creates a further layer of inconsistency, and, although there is a lot of willing from individual officers engaged in missing cases, there is also a lot of politics at a higher level that militates against greater consistency and cooperation, even were the budget and other resources to be found.

So that's (at least) one problem. But another two are that the same applies to UID cases and to applying an algorithm to known perpetrators, both of which could then be mapped on to missing data to create a joined-up, comprehensive resource accessible in real time by any given officer responding to a missing person report. There are monofaceted resources, such as the proposed national missing persons database, the i-familia database or the HOLMES-2 system, but nothing that integrates missing, UID and major crime cases. Even missing person enquiries themselves are run in different ways by different forces - there is no one standardised system - and even the one used by most forces, the name of which escapes me just at the minute, has a task-based design, so it can generate a lot of tasks and even look as though those have been done (e.g. visit an address to try and locate a POI) without anything actually being accomplished.

So, even leaving aside the fact that the dividends paid by diverting resources into missing persons are not appreciable statistically, and that a lot of missing episodes would be better dealt with by agencies other than the police, there are enormous practical obstacles preventing any individual force or investigative team from doing a good job in any given case. It's a real problem, and one that is very close to my heart, as you can probably see.

The technology is there and in many ways the problem is analogous to issues around NHS data infrastructure, which is not fit for purpose but which would not be very complex to fix if only the funding (and vision) were there. Another WSer and I are in the process of trying to get the design and trial of an appropriate tool off the ground right now, but it's a long old slog on all kinds of levels so don't hold your breath.

 

[SaintGertrude]

Ranjit Gill was murdered quite close to where Leah Croucher lived although it is thought to be a domestic murder by a known assailant and the husband was charged. I am not sure if the trial is ongoing.
Husband, 46, is due in court charged with murdering his 43-year-old wife | Daily Mail Online

Beresford Close is a road near Furzton Lake.

 

[SaintGertrude]

Ranjit Gill was murdered quite close to where Leah Croucher lived although it is thought to be a domestic murder by a known assailant and the husband was charged. I am not sure if the trial is ongoing.
Husband, 46, is due in court charged with murdering his 43-year-old wife | Daily Mail Online

Beresford Close is a road near Furzton Lake.

After a bit more searching it appears that this case is ongoing as per recent article.
Husband accused of murdering wife by stabbing her to death at home

 

[SaintGertrude]

This is an interesting read about the case. Missing Persons Assignment 1 - Missing Person Case Study Review – Leah Croucher Outline of the Case - StuDocu

 

[Woodburnbay]

Do some people feel that both police and public are treading on eggshells in this case and others surrounding grooming because of the proven interest in grooming by a certain demographic?

For example-Describing Mr X as "X" when this word would not be consider a name in his demographic is in some ways casting aspersions to another ethnic group who are highly unlikely to be involved (X is quite popular as part of the Chinese vocabulary)

 

[JuicyLucy]

Do some people feel that both police and public are treading on eggshells in this case and others surrounding grooming because of the proven interest in grooming by a certain demographic?

For example-Describing Mr X as "X" when this word would not be consider a name in his demographic is in some ways casting aspersions to another ethnic group who are highly unlikely to be involved (X is quite popular as part of the Chinese vocabulary)

BBM

I would like some sources for that 'proven interest in grooming by a certain demographic' @Woodburnbay.

Afaik, grooming children for sexual exploitation is common to all social and ethnic groups, and in the UK most commonly takes place at the hands of white men.

The idea that it's somehow a Muslim issue is generally seen now as a racist trope propagated by the far right for its political usefulness.

A new Home Office report admits grooming gangs are not a ‘Muslim problem' | Ella Cockbain and Waqas Tufail

SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals

 

[Cherwell]

Do some people feel that both police and public are treading on eggshells in this case and others surrounding grooming because of the proven interest in grooming by a certain demographic?

For example-Describing Mr X as "X" when this word would not be consider a name in his demographic is in some ways casting aspersions to another ethnic group who are highly unlikely to be involved (X is quite popular as part of the Chinese vocabulary)

No, I don't.

 

[Mrs Marple]

I assume it is to protect his identity and race doesn't come in to it. X is a common letter to use.

I doubt they are treading on eggshells for race relations reasons. I assume it is simply because he has a water tight alibi and they have no grounds to continue to investigate him.

It seems to me that as Leah went out in tracky bottoms on the evening of 14th February she was hardly off out to meet a man for a secret valentines tryst. It's possible, but l don't find it likely.

 

[Woodburnbay]

I assume it is to protect his identity and race doesn't come in to it. X is a common letter to use.

I doubt they are treading on eggshells for race relations reasons. I assume it is simply because he has a water tight alibi and they have no grounds to continue to investigate him.

It seems to me that as Leah went out in tracky bottoms on the evening of 14th February she was hardly off out to meet a man for a secret valentines tryst. It's possible, but l don't find it likely.

Perhaps she went out to buy something as a valentines day purchase for someone she was seeing the next day, either in the office or on the way to the office. A card perhaps?

 

[Mrs Marple]

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Perhaps she went out to buy something as a valentines day purchase for someone she was seeing the next day, either in the office or on the way to the office. A card perhaps?

Perhaps but she said she was popping to see a friend. They have all denied meeting her. Unless one of them is lying. Otherwise it seems more likely she would say ' l'm popping to the shop' l think.

 

[SaintGertrude]

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Perhaps but she said she was popping to see a friend. They have all denied meeting her. Unless one of them is lying. Otherwise it seems more likely she would say ' l'm popping to the shop' l think.

She may have taken herself for a lone walk or a run in her jogging bottoms as she felt let down by spurned relationship.
February 14th looking at statistics does seem a time people choose to disappear (although it was the next day for Leah)
Helen Hooper, Fatima Mohamed-Ali to name but a few people have choosen or were unwillingly made to disappear.
What to do if he runs away on Valentine’s Day

 

[JuicyLucy]

Perhaps but she said she was popping to see a friend. They have all denied meeting her. Unless one of them is lying. Otherwise it seems more likely she would say ' l'm popping to the shop' l think.

That's an interesting thought. Perhaps one of her friends lied to her family (i.e. originally) but told the truth when it was escalated to a police enquiry. It has consistently seemed to me that the police know something not in the public domain that reduces the sense of urgency for them.

JMO

 

[NorthernSoul]

That's an interesting thought. Perhaps one of her friends lied to her family (i.e. originally) but told the truth when it was escalated to a police enquiry. It has consistently seemed to me that the police know something not in the public domain that reduces the sense of urgency for them.

JMO

I agree with this. I noticed an interesting statement in the document written by a student which was posted above by SaintGertrude. It says, "there is a possibility that she went missing intentionally due to the affair she was having with an engaged man who cannot be named for legal reasons so has been named Mr X (Murrer, 2020). If this is the case, the ethics of the case will take a different angle where transparency will come second to the needs of the victim (Morewitz & Sturdy Colls, 2016)."

Whether Leah went missing for this or other reasons, unless I have misunderstood, it seems to imply that if the police know something, they may not choose to disclose it if doing so could be to the detriment of the missing person. I don't know if anyone knows more about this legal area? Say if Leah had left home of her own accord and the police had evidence of this but by revealing details might cause someone to go looking for her, would they stay quiet? I also find this interesting in the context of an investigating officer having told the media he believes Leah could well have left of her own accord without giving any reason as to why he believes this.

 

[Mrs Marple]

Whilst l think it's plausible they know more, l'm not sure l buy in to Leah leaving of her own accord. Why did she start her journey to work that day and how is she supporting herself? Surely she would have come forward when she realised the anguish she was causing her brother in particular.

I think it more likely that she has taken her own life than left of her own accord. I don't think she is alive now either way, sadly.

 

[JuicyLucy]

I agree with this. I noticed an interesting statement in the document written by a student which was posted above by SaintGertrude. It says, "there is a possibility that she went missing intentionally due to the affair she was having with an engaged man who cannot be named for legal reasons so has been named Mr X (Murrer, 2020). If this is the case, the ethics of the case will take a different angle where transparency will come second to the needs of the victim (Morewitz & Sturdy Colls, 2016)."

Whether Leah went missing for this or other reasons, unless I have misunderstood, it seems to imply that if the police know something, they may not choose to disclose it if doing so could be to the detriment of the missing person. I don't know if anyone knows more about this legal area? Say if Leah had left home of her own accord and the police had evidence of this but by revealing details might cause someone to go looking for her, would they stay quiet? I also find this interesting in the context of an investigating officer having told the media he believes Leah could well have left of her own accord without giving any reason as to why he believes this.

Yes, this is absolutely correct and I posted about it before iirc. Hypothetically, if Leah has been in touch with the police and said that she left voluntarily because of a situation that placed her at risk, and that she didn't want her whereabouts or even the fact that she is alive and well to be disclosed for fear that whatever situation she was escaping would catch up with her, then they would close the investigation and flag it as not for disclosure.

I think this scenario would explain a lot, e.g. the apparent police attitude and the seeming beginnings of expectation management on the part of the SIO; the fact that the misper enquiry has never been upgraded to a murder enquiry; the fact that her parents were not given guardianship of her finances.

I have always thought that her disappearance was voluntary, but if, say, she has changed her name and appearance, she would still need to work and the police would be able to see any HMRC activity, so I have to assume that in that scenario the police would be in the picture.

JMO

 

[SaintGertrude]

Whilst l think it's plausible they know more, l'm not sure l buy in to Leah leaving of her own accord. Why did she start her journey to work that day and how is she supporting herself? Surely she would have come forward when she realised the anguish she was causing her brother in particular.

I think it more likely that she has taken her own life than left of her own accord. I don't think she is alive now either way, sadly.

There is always the chance that something similar to this very sad incident may have happened. If Leah did take her own life and someone she had been having an affair with thought it was a messy situation they may have moved her somewhere out of view.
Woman jailed for moving body

 

[JuicyLucy]

There is always the chance that something similar to this very sad incident may have happened. If Leah did take her own life and someone she had been having an affair with thought it was a messy situation they may have moved her somewhere out of view.
Woman jailed for moving body

Wow I'm quite impressed anyone could move a dead body using a mobility scooter and think a 2-year prison sentence if the death itself was not suspicious is quite harsh tbh. (I realise I'm missing the point.)

 

[Thelastleg]

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Perhaps but she said she was popping to see a friend. They have all denied meeting her. Unless one of them is lying. Otherwise it seems more likely she would say ' l'm popping to the shop' l think.

With the utmost respect to Leah and her family, I think she was very secretive. Whether this was because her parents were very controlling in her life or Leah had something going on that she didn't want either her family or friends to know about. Popping to a friends house was probably a safe excuse. On her return she avoided the evening meal and got herself a take away. Was she upset about something that had happened and didn't want her parents to lecture or question her? I feel she was close to her brother and he may have known what was going on in her life but was unable to protect her. All MOO

 

[HollyHunter9]

Yes, this is absolutely correct and I posted about it before iirc. Hypothetically, if Leah has been in touch with the police and said that she left voluntarily because of a situation that placed her at risk, and that she didn't want her whereabouts or even the fact that she is alive and well to be disclosed for fear that whatever situation she was escaping would catch up with her, then they would close the investigation and flag it as not for disclosure.

I think this scenario would explain a lot, e.g. the apparent police attitude and the seeming beginnings of expectation management on the part of the SIO; the fact that the misper enquiry has never been upgraded to a murder enquiry; the fact that her parents were not given guardianship of her finances.

I have always thought that her disappearance was voluntary, but if, say, she has changed her name and appearance, she would still need to work and the police would be able to see any HMRC activity, so I have to assume that in that scenario the police would be in the picture.

JMO

So if say this is what happened... police knew she willingly disappeared but didn't want any details made public because of the risk to her safety, does that mean the numerous police appeals for information, police divers searching the lake not once but twice, crimestoppers video appeal made, trawling through 4000 hours of cctv, knocking on doors etc. was all done by the police to keep up the pretense that leah is missing and no one supposedly knows why? Not trying to be argumentative just genuinely curious as to how far the police would go and how much money and effort they would be willing to spend on what essentially would be a bogus "missing persons" case.

 

[Atoz]

So if say this is what happened... police knew she willingly disappeared but didn't want any details made public because of the risk to her safety, does that mean the numerous police appeals for information, police divers searching the lake not once but twice, crimestoppers video appeal made, trawling through 4000 hours of cctv, knocking on doors etc. was all done by the police to keep up the pretense that leah is missing and no one supposedly knows why? Not trying to be argumentative just genuinely curious as to how far the police would go and how much money and effort they would be willing to spend on what essentially would be a bogus "missing persons" case.

I completely agree with what you're saying. The police would not continue to search and as far as I know, she wouldn't still still be listed as missing. They certainly wouldn't expend already stretched resources to keep up the pretence.