Found Deceased UK - Leah Croucher, 19, Emerson Valley, Milton Keynes, 14 Feb 2019 #5

Status
Not open for further replies.
I was going to mention the lake searches in this context as well - doesn't quite stack up for me. I vaguely recall a couple of instances whereby the police have stated someone is safe but doesn't want to be found, although l don't recall details from memory.

It just shows you no good can come from being secretive.

I don't think this will move forward unless someone finds Leah.
 
Or perhaps she was stood up on evening of 14th.

I didn't realise Leahs biological parents had split. There was a comment in an article on the death of Hayden that suggested he didn't have family support around the time of his death - unrelated of course but as suggested family dynamics may have played a role in Leahs secretive behaviour.

Article l read yesterday on mm suggested leading investigative officer thinks Leahs feelings were not requited or the relationship was in her head. These conclusions must be based on something.

Edit unless...they searched the lake based on the sighting of a hoodie didn't they? Perhaps LE thought Leah might have entered the lake of her own free will. If they think she did harm herself, begs the question why the lake wasn't searched sooner.
 
Last edited:
So if say this is what happened... police knew she willingly disappeared but didn't want any details made public because of the risk to her safety, does that mean the numerous police appeals for information, police divers searching the lake not once but twice, crimestoppers video appeal made, trawling through 4000 hours of cctv, knocking on doors etc. was all done by the police to keep up the pretense that leah is missing and no one supposedly knows why? Not trying to be argumentative just genuinely curious as to how far the police would go and how much money and effort they would be willing to spend on what essentially would be a bogus "missing persons" case.

Well, I think there are two things to consider here.

One is that there's no telling how recently Leah's (hypothetical) continued existence came to light. The comments the SIO made about her perhaps going voluntarily and still being alive are quite recent iirc. Likewise, her parents' complaints about not being allowed to sort out her bank account, even though we know there's a mechanism for them to have done so if granted the right, are also comparatively recent. So possibly there's been a shift in the investigation's status only recently. I certainly think there's been a recent shift in tone. A lot of people here have commented that she would be unable to earn and support herself if she voluntarily disappeared but maybe she's only just wanted/needed to, which might chime with the widely held belief that she might have been pregnant when she disappeared. If she registered a name change with HMRC before disappearing (probably on the advice of someone else) she'd be able to resume work under her new name (i.e. without alerting an employer) but in all likelihood TVP would have a flag on her tax and NIC account, which may only recently have been triggered.

The second thing imo is to consider where the pressure's coming from to continue investigating, and the answer to that is clearly her family. Friends, former colleagues and MK generally do care and are interested, but it's unlikely anyone is calling TVP every week/month asking what they're doing to find Leah lately. Her family are, though, and are entitled to answers. But what if - again hypothetically - Leah's family is who she was running from? If TVP are at a duty not to disclose her continued existence, and are simultaneously at a duty to respond to requests for action from her family, that's a very difficult line to tread. If they refuse to take any action at all on an investigation that everyone believes is still open, then that in effect ends up being a disclosure in itself and a breach of their duty to Leah.

I don't think we can know whether the investigation is formally open or closed, and I imagine, though I don't know for sure, that in this situation very few people would know. If its status is DND, then a FOIA request will be fruitless.

I wouldn't personally say that recent efforts have been that resource-intensive. It costs very little for the SIO to talk to the local paper as part of an anniversary/birthday appeal, and by using social media they can recycle the appeal poster periodically without even paying for photocopying. Afaik, nothing costly like door-to-door enquiries, dredging bodies of water or scouring hours of cctv footage has happened for quite some time. All that's happened lately is that they issued a statement explaining why the sighting of the driver in the leather coat wasn't treated as significant, and confirmed to the MK Courier that they could print the story about the red thing in the Eaton Bray barn (in effect confirming that that wasn't significant either). We ourselves have wondered how they can be so sure in both cases, and perhaps this is the answer.

This is only one hypothesis and it's not perfect, but for me it's way more plausible than that some guy at work who may or may not have had sex with her would engage in an elaborate plot, involving multiple people any of whom might screw up forensically or when questioned, to abduct and murder her as part of a so-called honour killing. If Leah was as throwaway to X as many people believe, I can't see him taking such enormous risks for her. On the other hand, as I said upthread, I know personally of someone escaping a domestic situation whose disappearance has been handled in exactly this way. The only difference here is the higher profile of Leah's disappearance, which presents the police with some additional, but not insurmountable, practical problems.

JMO as always.
 
This reminds me of Claudia Lawrence in that she disappeared without trace on her way to work (assumed) and her phone was powered off. Except that was a murder enquiry in weeks rather than a missing person.

So where are these comments that the parents were unable / prevented access her finances?
 
Or perhaps she was stood up on evening of 14th.

I didn't realise Leahs biological parents had split. There was a comment in an article on the death of Hayden that suggested he didn't have family support around the time of his death - unrelated of course but as suggested family dynamics may have played a role in Leahs secretive behaviour.

Article l read yesterday on mm suggested leading investigative officer thinks Leahs feelings were not requited or the relationship was in her head. These conclusions must be based on something.

Edit unless...they searched the lake based on the sighting of a hoodie didn't they? Perhaps LE thought Leah might have entered the lake of her own free will. If they think she did harm herself, begs the question why the lake wasn't searched sooner.
Hayden's whole family were there at the inquest including his biological mum and step mum.
I think Leah would have also had the family support she needed before she disappeared.
Brother of missing teen discharged from mental health service a day before death
""Haydon was so consumed with pain and anguish and despite the love around him it wasn't enough. His mother's love and that of his entire family was not enough"
 
Indeed it was, but it seems there is no hard evidence they applied and were denied guardianship, it is conjecture.

The whole thread is conjecture!

It was me who suggested it as a possibility though. I felt it was unlikely that they would have pursued the idea of taking control of her bank account to any degree without anyone at all - the bank, the police, the local paper or the various other sources of support open to them - suggesting they apply for a guardianship order. So either they didn't apply - in which case why be surprised they couldn't sort her finances out - or they did. If the latter, one can only surmise they were unsuccessful.

JMO, then and now.
 
Hayden's whole family were there at the inquest including his biological mum and step mum.
I think Leah would have also had the family support she needed before she disappeared.
Brother of missing teen discharged from mental health service a day before death
""Haydon was so consumed with pain and anguish and despite the love around him it wasn't enough. His mother's love and that of his entire family was not enough"

Yes l saw they were all there in his final moments - another devastating loss for them. I'm not sure what this comment is referring to

Missing teen's brother 'was begging for help' - BBC News

'She told the hearing that during the last of three sessions, on 16 October, Mr Croucher said he had "found it difficult to cope with no family support".- she being his therapist- l didn't want to copy the paragraph before as it might be triggering.

The whole thread is conjecture!

It was me who suggested it as a possibility though. I felt it was unlikely that they would have pursued the idea of taking control of her bank account to any degree without anyone at all - the bank, the police, the local paper or the various other sources of support open to them - suggesting they apply for a guardianship order. So either they didn't apply - in which case why be surprised they couldn't sort her finances out - or they did. If the latter, one can only surmise they were unsuccessful.

JMO, then and now.

Large amounts are conjecture JL but there are some limited facts. I wanted to clarify if l had missed something.
 
In the Claudia's case, Her father had to lobby parliament to enable a law to be passed "Claudia's Law" that allowed relatives of missing people to be able to have control of their assets after a reasonable period of time.
The law is now passed and permits this but it may be that because police have not declared this a murder investigation that the law does not allow access to assets just yet.
 
Well, I think there are two things to consider here.

One is that there's no telling how recently Leah's (hypothetical) continued existence came to light. The comments the SIO made about her perhaps going voluntarily and still being alive are quite recent iirc. Likewise, her parents' complaints about not being allowed to sort out her bank account, even though we know there's a mechanism for them to have done so if granted the right, are also comparatively recent. So possibly there's been a shift in the investigation's status only recently. I certainly think there's been a recent shift in tone. A lot of people here have commented that she would be unable to earn and support herself if she voluntarily disappeared but maybe she's only just wanted/needed to, which might chime with the widely held belief that she might have been pregnant when she disappeared. If she registered a name change with HMRC before disappearing (probably on the advice of someone else) she'd be able to resume work under her new name (i.e. without alerting an employer) but in all likelihood TVP would have a flag on her tax and NIC account, which may only recently have been triggered.

The second thing imo is to consider where the pressure's coming from to continue investigating, and the answer to that is clearly her family. Friends, former colleagues and MK generally do care and are interested, but it's unlikely anyone is calling TVP every week/month asking what they're doing to find Leah lately. Her family are, though, and are entitled to answers. But what if - again hypothetically - Leah's family is who she was running from? If TVP are at a duty not to disclose her continued existence, and are simultaneously at a duty to respond to requests for action from her family, that's a very difficult line to tread. If they refuse to take any action at all on an investigation that everyone believes is still open, then that in effect ends up being a disclosure in itself and a breach of their duty to Leah.

I don't think we can know whether the investigation is formally open or closed, and I imagine, though I don't know for sure, that in this situation very few people would know. If its status is DND, then a FOIA request will be fruitless.

I wouldn't personally say that recent efforts have been that resource-intensive. It costs very little for the SIO to talk to the local paper as part of an anniversary/birthday appeal, and by using social media they can recycle the appeal poster periodically without even paying for photocopying. Afaik, nothing costly like door-to-door enquiries, dredging bodies of water or scouring hours of cctv footage has happened for quite some time. All that's happened lately is that they issued a statement explaining why the sighting of the driver in the leather coat wasn't treated as significant, and confirmed to the MK Courier that they could print the story about the red thing in the Eaton Bray barn (in effect confirming that that wasn't significant either). We ourselves have wondered how they can be so sure in both cases, and perhaps this is the answer.

This is only one hypothesis and it's not perfect, but for me it's way more plausible than that some guy at work who may or may not have had sex with her would engage in an elaborate plot, involving multiple people any of whom might screw up forensically or when questioned, to abduct and murder her as part of a so-called honour killing. If Leah was as throwaway to X as many people believe, I can't see him taking such enormous risks for her. On the other hand, as I said upthread, I know personally of someone escaping a domestic situation whose disappearance has been handled in exactly this way. The only difference here is the higher profile of Leah's disappearance, which presents the police with some additional, but not insurmountable, practical problems.

JMO as always.
The part of your hypothesis regarding police being advised by Leah that she may be fleeing from her parents and does not want them to know here location:

Would the police not be duty bound to share info that she was still alive but had requested that she did not want her parents to know her whereabouts?
 
Hayden's whole family were there at the inquest including his biological mum and step mum.
I think Leah would have also had the family support she needed before she disappeared.
Brother of missing teen discharged from mental health service a day before death
""Haydon was so consumed with pain and anguish and despite the love around him it wasn't enough. His mother's love and that of his entire family was not enough"
The part of your hypothesis regarding police being advised by Leah that she may be fleeing from her parents and does not want them to know here location:

Would the police not be duty bound to share info that she was still alive but had requested that she did not want her parents to know her whereabouts?
I think if someone is found alive the police are duty bound. There is the case of Jamie Cheesman in 1993 where it was reported that sightings had been made but in her case at a nearby market by the dad. I think if non family have sightings of a missing person then police are only duty bound to give statistics of the number of times witness have reported sightings. It may not be in the missing persons interest to be found if they are an adult and entitled to privacy despite the heartache caused.
 
I think if someone is found alive the police are duty bound. There is the case of Jamie Cheesman in 1993 where it was reported that sightings had been made but in her case at a nearby market by the dad. I think if non family have sightings of a missing person then police are only duty bound to give statistics of the number of times witness have reported sightings. It may not be in the missing persons interest to be found if they are an adult and entitled to privacy despite the heartache caused.

The case still has a SIO assigned to it. If the police believed Leah just walked away, this would not be their normal action more than two years later.
 
The whole thread is conjecture!

It was me who suggested it as a possibility though. I felt it was unlikely that they would have pursued the idea of taking control of her bank account to any degree without anyone at all - the bank, the police, the local paper or the various other sources of support open to them - suggesting they apply for a guardianship order. So either they didn't apply - in which case why be surprised they couldn't sort her finances out - or they did. If the latter, one can only surmise they were unsuccessful.

JMO, then and now.

You raise interesting points. The bank account scenario is curious to me. The family believed that keeping her account alive would pay the direct debits and keep her phone active.
It may be that they did receive a Guardianship Order???
 
In the Claudia's case, Her father had to lobby parliament to enable a law to be passed "Claudia's Law" that allowed relatives of missing people to be able to have control of their assets after a reasonable period of time.
The law is now passed and permits this but it may be that because police have not declared this a murder investigation that the law does not allow access to assets just yet.

No, fair point, but it was designed to pass interim control over to someone else in ongoing missing cases, not just missing-presumed-dead cases. In fact, I think iirc that Guardianship Orders cease once someone is presumed dead, as different legislation then allows management of their affairs.

Would the police not be duty bound to share info that she was still alive but had requested that she did not want her parents to know her whereabouts?

Not duty bound, no. For sure, this would be one way to handle a voluntary disappearance, but it wouldn't meet the needs of a scenario where the missing person believed themselves to be unsafe as long as the third party they were escaping from knew them to be alive. I'm thinking, for instance, of domestic violence situations where an abusive spouse has threatened to hunt someone down until they find and kill them. A percentage of DV victims find that restraining orders are not enough to keep them safe, still less keep them feeling safe, and choose to disappear instead. In a situation like that, police would absolutely keep confidential the fact that the missing person was now accounted for, up to and including misleading the spouse.

I'm not saying this was the situation for Leah, of course, just that a scenario in which she's safe and well but wants that kept confidential would certainly not be unprecedented.

JMO
 

Attachments

  • Guardianship_OverviewMPBrand1(3).pdf
    1 MB · Views: 2
You raise interesting points. The bank account scenario is curious to me. The family believed that keeping her account alive would pay the direct debits and keep her phone active.
It may be that they did receive a Guardianship Order???

I don't think that makes sense, with respect, as the point of the article in the local paper was that they had been unable to prevent her mobile being cut off as they hadn't been able to control the direct debits coming out of her account, with the result that the money wasn't then available to pay her mobile service. If they'd successfully received a Guardianship Order, that wouldn't have been a problem.

None of it made any sense though, because with or without a Guardianship Order, they could still have paid into her account in order that the mobile charge was covered each month.

So I don't know. It felt to me at the time that there was more complexity to the situation than the paper had adequately conveyed.

JMO
 
I don't think that makes sense, with respect, as the point of the article in the local paper was that they had been unable to prevent her mobile being cut off as they hadn't been able to control the direct debits coming out of her account, with the result that the money wasn't then available to pay her mobile service. If they'd successfully received a Guardianship Order, that wouldn't have been a problem.

None of it made any sense though, because with or without a Guardianship Order, they could still have paid into her account in order that the mobile charge was covered each month.

So I don't know. It felt to me at the time that there was more complexity to the situation than the paper had adequately conveyed.

JMO
A guardianship order only came into force on 31st July 2019 because of Claudia’s Law.
 
A lot of interesting and valid comments being made. I commented earlier in the thread, quoting the student document which stated that, in some circumstances, such as Leah having chosen to leave of her own accord," the ethics of the case will take a different angle where transparency will come second to the needs of the victim (Morewitz & Sturdy Colls, 2016). "

It's just interesting that the possibility exists that the police may know something which gives them a clear indication of what is likely to have happened but might choose not to disclose it. Yes, it is just conjecture but I'm trying to look at the different possibilities.

I do agree, of course, that when extensive searches were being carried out etc. the police must have legitimately been searching for Leah and hence, at that time at least, did not have a good idea of what had happened to her.

The niggling question I have is why the investigating officer would say he believed the most likely scenario was that Leah had chosen to leave. Surely this would be sending the message into the public domain that nobody was being looked at as a suspect in the case. Making such a statement might stop a witness coming forward with information thinking it couldn't be relevant or could take pressure off any suspect who may be considering making a confession. I can't understand why the police would do that if they thought there could be a murderer on the loose?

Also there is the apparent complacency on the side of the police with regard to Mr. X, almost as though they know there is no point pursuing that angle. If I remember rightly, Leah's parents mentioned something along the lines of Leah having recently got to know some other people through her association with Mr. X who they did not like (sorry I don't have the exact quote). There may be other players in this scenario we know nothing about. Her mum said she had become "a bit more moody" and "a little bit snappy". Young people often don't disclose their feelings or actions to their parents. To me, there are changes and events in the lead-up to Leah's disappearance which could suggest something was building up; yes it could have been unhappiness over Mr. X but similarly it could have been that Leah wasn't happy in other aspects of her life and was planning to do something.
 
The part of your hypothesis regarding police being advised by Leah that she may be fleeing from her parents and does not want them to know here location:

Would the police not be duty bound to share info that she was still alive but had requested that she did not want her parents to know her whereabouts?

I remember during the Corrie McKeague missing case the Police commented that a man had been spoken to, at a seaside address (i forget where now, but it was in the UK) and it implied they didn't want to be found at the time, despite it being a confusing statement by Police at the time. JMO MOO
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
161
Guests online
3,576
Total visitors
3,737

Forum statistics

Threads
591,852
Messages
17,960,027
Members
228,624
Latest member
Laayla
Back
Top