PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, former district attorney, Bellefonte, 15 Apr 2005 - #17

[Daisy1980]

lolz, I know and it's too late too late to edit, I hope I didn't offend anyone, I know these countries are not all chicken farms etc...I just had a vision for a comedy!

thank you for the geography lesson and sorry to go so off topic!

Haha, no in fact i was quite amused and meant to add another post saying so when I got distracted. I didn't know where either country was and just wanted it out there.

 

[SeekingJana]

A couple of minor things. I had trouble with the Slovenia/ Slovakia thing too until Trump was running for POTUS and it was said every other sentence that his wife, Melania, was born in Slovenia, when it was part of the Czech Republic.
I could associate her with Ray and Slovenia after that.

Next thing, I think a county in Texas now has a missing D.A. Since it's such a huge state, and every county has to have at least one D.A., I believe, it's not too surprising. It was a few weeks ago and I don't recall the details now, but I don't think the person has been declared dead. So, either OK and alive, or still missing.
This is so woefully inadequate, and I apologize.

For many years, J. and I kept up with any news of adverse events involving sitting D.A.s. There never has been much to report except Ray's case, which, frankly, also has little to report in general.

I hope everyone's well. It's so great that people still care about Mr. Gricar and if hopes and prayers would bring a man back, he'd be safe and sound. wouldn't he? You all are great.

 

[Daisy1980]

random question: was Ray likely in Raystown Lake when his daughter called on Thursday before he disappeared? It looks like she called his house at 10:48 AM, he didn't answer. It appears she waited a few minutes for him to call back then she called his cell at 10:52. She says she talked to him and the log shows one minute call.

 

[SeekingJana]

I've always put the timeline for Raystown Lake as him being there around noon, possibly early afternoon, but not AM.
It's my understanding that Lara and Ray talked almost every day with most calls being short and a sort of " I'm doing well and glad you are too, and I LOVE YOU" type of short check in call. I did this with my parents for many years when all of us were young and healthy and busy, but I couldn't be there in person.
It's a type of comforting ritual and more personal than email or texts are now.

I don't think Ray was much of an early morning person when he didn't have to be. There's also the 3 or 4 hour time difference, with Lara already living in the Pacific NW US.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Snipped for brevity.

A couple of minor things. I had trouble with the Slovenia/ Slovakia thing too until Trump was running for POTUS and it was said every other sentence that his wife, Melania, was born in Slovenia, when it was part of the Czech Republic.
I could associate her with Ray and Slovenia after that.

Good to see you post.

Slovenia is on the eastern border of Italy, basically across the Adriatic Sea from Venice. Melania Trump was born there. It was part of Yugoslavia prior to that country's break up.

Slovakia was the eastern part of Czechoslovakia. It is north of Hungary and south of Poland.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

random question: was Ray likely in Raystown Lake when his daughter called on Thursday before he disappeared? It looks like she called his house at 10:48 AM, he didn't answer. It appears she waited a few minutes for him to call back then she called his cell at 10:52. She says she talked to him and the log shows one minute call.

Probably or at least in transit. I think the witness saw him there between 10:30 and 11:00 AM.

They were not described as particularly long calls, just checking in.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

A brief video that includes RFG:

 

[J. J. in Phila]

RK is expected to have another podcast out in November.

Just a note about me. I have been rather busy with some professional activities. I am also scaling back my life a bit and planning to move to smaller place, but still in Phila.

 

[SeekingJana]

Ha ha, so glad to see you and can't believe I STILL got the country's location wrong after all these years. Thanks for clearing it up!

I think it's a bit strange that no one has ever really put the spotlight on Raystown Lake and RFG being there one day prior if the sighting has been verified or there is reason to think he was actually gone from the CCCH and sitting in the parking lot or around the marina area. I know things would have a greater emphasis if he'd disappeared from the Raystown Lake area. but it's skimmed over when we discuss Ray's actions. I guess not enough is known to really discuss it, but I wish a local would have posted photos of the area and any private areas seen from the road to the marina.

Why did he go there, and why did he leave, if this did happen? I've always wondered if it was a " Dress Rehearsal" with the helper, so to speak. I realize there's no known evidence for anything at all and maybe be liked the grill's fish sandwiches, for all I know.

I love being near the water in the spring and fall and maybe Ray did as well.
J.J., don't you let the real world stuff get in the way. It's all going to be fine, and you are optimistic enough to know this 100%!

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Snipped for brevity.

I think it's a bit strange that no one has ever really put the spotlight on Raystown Lake and RFG being there one day prior if the sighting has been verified or there is reason to think he was actually gone from the CCCH and sitting in the parking lot or around the marina area. I know things would have a greater emphasis if he'd disappeared from the Raystown Lake area. but it's skimmed over when we discuss Ray's actions. I guess not enough is known to really discuss it, but I wish a local would have posted photos of the area and any private areas seen from the road to the marina.

Well, I know it was a boat landing and there are photos of some of those on-line.

The problem with the sighting is that fits into nearly every scenario:

1. RFG was planning to kill himself, like his brother did, by drowning.

2. RFG was going to a clandestine meeting with the killer, but saw someone he knew, and left.

3. RFG was going to meet a helper, but saw someone he knew, and left.

4. RFG wanted to toss the laptop, but saw someone he knew, and left.

The only scenario that it weakens is that RFG was worried about being targeted by a killer. The routes he would have taken were country roads, with limited population and poor cell coverage. RFG would have had to be incredibly stupid to do that, if he though he being targeted. One thing I have never heard RFG being accused of was being stupid.

 

[minazoe]

RAY'Stown....

 

[SeekingJana]

RAY'Stown....

We have discussed the Raystown name and the general consensus when we had many posters on Gricar's case threads was that it's always been a rather popular name for a boy and is not a rare surname in the US. Realizing of course that he is not from PA and that most lakes of any size pre-date his age, and most ages.

I've never known why it has that particular name but I'm sure there was a reason which is probably known to area residents. Likely, there is or was a town named for a family with the surname of "Ray". Just a guess, though.

IMO, it's totally useless speculation UNLESS there is evidence that a meeting or other thing happened there. We've been told many times he had no known reason to be there.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

We have discussed the Raystown name and the general consensus when we had many posters on Gricar's case threads was that it's always been a rather popular name for a boy and is not a rare surname in the US. Realizing of course that he is not from PA and that most lakes of any size pre-date his age, and most ages.

I've never known why it has that particular name but I'm sure there was a reason which is probably known to area residents. Likely, there is or was a town named for a family with the surname of "Ray". Just a guess, though.

IMO, it's totally useless speculation UNLESS there is evidence that a meeting or other thing happened there. We've been told many times he had no known reason to be there.

I think the name goes back to the French and Indian War (c. 1758). The original dam company was incorporated in 1906 under the name "Raystown Dam." I'm not even certain that the Gricar's were in the US at that point.

Was there some tie to the name? I'm doubtful. Raystown is the largest lake completely within PA and the largest body of water within a 50 mile radius of Bellefonte.

As for the purpose, I have heard that they were not renting boats at that time of the year (they would start that weekend). I don't think RFG could have rented one that day.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I have been thinking about this passage from The Legend of Sleepy Hollow:

"Brom Bones too, who shortly after his rival’s disappearance conducted the blooming Katrina in triumph to the altar, was observed to look exceedingly knowing whenever the story of Ichabod was related, and always burst into a hearty laugh at the mention of the pumpkin; which led some to suspect that he knew more about the matter than he chose to tell."

I really get the feeling that LE knows or has a good idea of what happened to RFG.

 

[minazoe]

I have been thinking about this passage from The Legend of Sleepy Hollow:

"Brom Bones too, who shortly after his rival’s disappearance conducted the blooming Katrina in triumph to the altar, was observed to look exceedingly knowing whenever the story of Ichabod was related, and always burst into a hearty laugh at the mention of the pumpkin; which led some to suspect that he knew more about the matter than he chose to tell."

I really get the feeling that LE knows or has a good idea of what happened to RFG.

is that just today? or are you resigned to this possibility? I know you said icksnay to WP, but it wouldn't be WP if they said yeah he went into WP. You said it was only available to informants..perhaps he was some kind of informant. ..perhaps they didn't need testimony..perhaps no one wanted to go with Ray where he was going and this whole thing was for show.

mainly because almost everything about this case seems off...his relationship...his disappearance and the reaction to his being missing is just always been hollow and weird. That his friend talks about Ray pulling a vanishing act, like it's a fun and romantic whale tale..this is a very important man..and to leave all the missing strings and cords so untended and unexplained is bizarre, also bizarre is the fact that PF and his daughter never pushed harder for a resolution and never bothered to spend their own days searching those woods for Ray. Sending out more searchers and volunteers to look for him.

there is no suicide note and no explanation for the cigarette ash in the car. mOO

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Actually, on the Witness Security Program, it would make sense to announce that this is what happened. I sure as heck would be talking about it. We are approaching 17 years, and this is still being discussed. Every time I post, there is another photo of Ray Gricar.

In fairness to LG, she did go out with her mother checking motels in the area.

Also, a majority of suicides do not leave notes.

 

[minazoe]

really? I always thought a note was the norm. It's really cold to do that..cold cold cold..almost abusive, intentionally cruel, without a thought of your child, your partner, your friends..yeah just wander off to die in a strange place and nary a fairtheewell...leave them to wonder and wake in the night wondering where you are for never ending years, never knowing why or how.

does that sound like Ray?

 

[ph!sh]

Hi! I’m somewhat new to this case but have been catching up on the thread the past few days. I was a student at PSU from 2015-2019 so Ray’s disappearance captured my attention as soon as I heard about it. IIRC I saw an episode about him and was just shocked I had never heard anything about this during my years in State College.

While not leaving a note may sound uncharacteristic of Ray, often individuals with suicidal ideation hide their pain and suffering so well that loved ones never seen it coming. There is a tremendous amount of shame and guilt associated with suicide. Why leave a note when you can disappear, ensuring your family never knows what you did?

There have been studies into people that left notes vs. those that did not. There’s no “normal” but the results of the study I’m referring to indicate that leaving a note is the minority, ranging from 2-42%. This study also found that those who did leave a note had a few things in common; they died by hanging/firearm and they did not have a history of mental illness, meaning they did not see a psychiatrist in the 12 months prior to their death. I thought that was interesting as Ray would fit the latter.

All that being said I’m not sure the absence of a note suggests much. If he met foul play he likely would not have been able to leave a note. If he did commit suicide, he may not have wanted to.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

really? I always thought a note was the norm. It's really cold to do that..cold cold cold..almost abusive, intentionally cruel, without a thought of your child, your partner, your friends..yeah just wander off to die in a strange place and nary a fairtheewell...leave them to wonder and wake in the night wondering where you are for never ending years, never knowing why or how.

does that sound like Ray?

Generally, someone committing suicide is depressed and notes are not the norm. Suicide note - Wikipedia

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Hi! I’m somewhat new to this case but have been catching up on the thread the past few days. I was a student at PSU from 2015-2019 so Ray’s disappearance captured my attention as soon as I heard about it. IIRC I saw an episode about him and was just shocked I had never heard anything about this during my years in State College.

While not leaving a note may sound uncharacteristic of Ray, often individuals with suicidal ideation hide their pain and suffering so well that loved ones never seen it coming. There is a tremendous amount of shame and guilt associated with suicide. Why leave a note when you can disappear, ensuring your family never knows what you did?

There have been studies into people that left notes vs. those that did not. There’s no “normal” but the results of the study I’m referring to indicate that leaving a note is the minority, ranging from 2-42%. This study also found that those who did leave a note had a few things in common; they died by hanging/firearm and they did not have a history of mental illness, meaning they did not see a psychiatrist in the 12 months prior to their death. I thought that was interesting as Ray would fit the latter.

All that being said I’m not sure the absence of a note suggests much. If he met foul play he likely would not have been able to leave a note. If he did commit suicide, he may not have wanted to.

Welcome. I am class of 1985. I wrote a blog on the case from 2009-14.