Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #138

[iamnotagolem]

sorry but they are far from being similar in age and looks
children vs young teens ( with libby possible to pass for a senior teen in looks )

I agree with this, it’s really what keeps me from believing the two cases are related. Sure 8 & 10 number wise isn’t far off from 13 & 14 but developmentally? Physically and emotionally they are miles apart.

There seem to be two different preferences involved, Evansdale cousins were prepubescent and Delphi girls were well into puberty.

Unless we find out there is a serial killer who has no preference at all, then I could see them being related.

 

[MistyWaters]

I agree with this, it’s really what keeps me from believing the two cases are related. Sure 8 & 10 number wise isn’t far off from 13 & 14 but developmentally? Physically and emotionally they are miles apart.

There seem to be two different preferences involved, Evansdale cousins were prepubescent and Delphi girls were well into puberty.

Unless we find out there is a serial killer who has no preference at all, then I could see them being related.

I agree. And the Evansdale girls were riding bicycles around town, a frequent activity of children, and Libby and Abby were walking by themselves on a trail taking photographs. It seems to me a serial killer seeking preferred young victims wouldn’t expect to find prepubescent girls walking alone on public trails. JMO

 

[minazoe]

well the Bridge Area is a known hang out for young people in Delphi...and the Evansdale girls were out riding their bike around a trail, and their bikes were found on a trail and their bodies were found a distance from there off of a trail so...mOO

 

[sandy_80]

I agree with this, it’s really what keeps me from believing the two cases are related. Sure 8 & 10 number wise isn’t far off from 13 & 14 but developmentally? Physically and emotionally they are miles apart.

There seem to be two different preferences involved, Evansdale cousins were prepubescent and Delphi girls were well into puberty.

Unless we find out there is a serial killer who has no preference at all, then I could see them being related.

yes we also have to assume the sexual motive for this supposed SK ..ppl always telling me that BG can be a peado cause the delhpi girls are children but thats not exactly accurate

 

[minazoe]

pedophillac child selection and serial killer selection is not an exact science. mOO

 

[AC4RD]

pedophillac child selection and serial killer selection is not an exact science. mOO

I agree, good point. There are so few of these 'people' in the general population, and their motives and actions are so driven by what can only be called grossly pathological personalities, totally removed from normal human thoughts and feelings, that I suspect your "not an exact science" is absolutely true. What motivates one sick freak may be entirely different from the next sick freak. (Good lord, I hope whatever sick freak got L&A is arrested soon.)

 

[Dotrat]

I agree with this, it’s really what keeps me from believing the two cases are related. Sure 8 & 10 number wise isn’t far off from 13 & 14 but developmentally? Physically and emotionally they are miles apart.

There seem to be two different preferences involved, Evansdale cousins were prepubescent and Delphi girls were well into puberty.


Unless we find out there is a serial killer who has no preference at all, then I could see them being related.

BBM
These cases are 5 years apart, if they are related so at that time, the monster was 5 years younger in the Iowa case and chose easier targets, he may have “graduated” to older victims in Delphi case. MOO he got away with it in Iowa and he felt emboldened to do it again. I would not be shocked if it was the same perpetrator. MOO

 

[MistyWaters]

pedophillac child selection and serial killer selection is not an exact science. mOO

If LE were to assume the two cases must be connected, if they look at it as an opportunity to solve two crimes at once - then they’d also have to discount any possible Delphi suspects with no known connection to Iowa. But that’d be backwards - because for the normal course of events first comes a possible suspect, after they know who they’ve got then LE investigates outward to determine if the criminal might’ve been responsible for other criminal activity elsewhere.

I’d be overjoyed if charges were laid against anyone in just one crime. I think it’s only because of JBC and his evil deeds towards little girls that the Iowa murders are once again being joined together with Delphi, even though LE clams they’ve made no connection between the two cases or JBC in either one. JMO

 

[minazoe]

well LE also has said they will not discuss anything about the Delphi case so it's impossible to know if they have made any connection...also Evansdale is an unsolved case with no new updates or suspects that we know of.

it will be interesting to see once JBC has his sentencing, if the media shut out remains. mOO

 

[JnRyan]

I tend to believe that the Evansdale and Delphi cases don't have the same killer. Listening to ISP 1st Sgt Jerry Holeman in August of 2017 they looked at Evansdale and he stated they didn't find a connection. BUT he qualified that by saying because of the condition of the bodies in the Evansdale case they didn't have a cause of death. I got the impression that a lack of connection didn't mean they had completed ruled out a relationship between the two.

Of course, it would be interesting to hear what a profiler has to say about the Evansdale killer and the Delphi killer.

 

[watcher9]

I think in both cases the profile was it was probably someone who was familiar with the area. Maybe that's a standard conclusion when they just don't know who it is.

 

[Detective Willy]

We have had 3 high profile cases in Australia that have made lots of progress in recent weeks. With each case LE has been very informative to the Public.

I think LE should release more of what they know in this Abby and Libby case instead of keeping info "close to their vest". This case has always frustrated me due to the limited info and the confusion with the sketches and what it actually means.

 

[JnRyan]

We have had 3 high profile cases in Australia that have made lots of progress in recent weeks. With each case LE has been very informative to the Public.

I think LE should release more of what they know in this Abby and Libby case instead of keeping info "close to their vest". This case has always frustrated me due to the limited info and the confusion with the sketches and what it actually means.

I'm frustrated as well. But I wonder: What can they release that won't jeopardize the case or a connection to a future crime? The cause of death really isn't likely to be of any help to the public. Former prosecutor, Ives, stated there were 3 signatures. But if they release those might the killer change to avoid a connection with any future murder? The vehicle LE mentions being parked at the now demolished CPS building in the April 2019 PC is one item I wonder about. Why keep that secret? LE in other crimes have given out vehicle descriptions. It would seem if someone has a suspicion about a potential POI the vehicle make or model might push them to call it in. Of course it is possible this person is really just an undiscovered witness but even that might help the case further.

The longer LE waits the greater the chance a memory fades or a potential tipster dies.

 

[Ozoner]

This is exactly what happened. The first episode of the Down the Hill podcast is titled "Don't forget your coat". According to the show the grandmother and the sister told them they should wear something warmer. I believe the sister even went back into the house and grabbed sweaters for them just in case. At their age and with the day off they where pumped about the weather and just wanted to enjoy it. BG might have been out there for quite awhile looking for his opportunity. Could it be that he was overdressed because he had went on the hunt before he knew how the weather was going to turn out that day? Just a thought.

How warmly you need to dress is very much affected by how active you are. I've shoveled snow in a T-shirt when it was 20° F , and I've worn wool sweaters to picnics when it was 75° F.
Neither BG nor the girls were dressed in a way that would have been outside the norm.

 

[IronyDetective]

I'm frustrated as well. But I wonder: What can they release that won't jeopardize the case or a connection to a future crime? The cause of death really isn't likely to be of any help to the public. Former prosecutor, Ives, stated there were 3 signatures. But if they release those might the killer change to avoid a connection with any future murder? The vehicle LE mentions being parked at the now demolished CPS building in the April 2019 PC is one item I wonder about. Why keep that secret? LE in other crimes have given out vehicle descriptions. It would seem if someone has a suspicion about a potential POI the vehicle make or model might push them to call it in. Of course it is possible this person is really just an undiscovered witness but even that might help the case further.

The longer LE waits the greater the chance a memory fades or a potential tipster dies.

I am starting to think about the deliberate editing of the “Guys... Down the Hill” phrase now. What COULD have been cut out that was deemed not important for the Public to hear? IMO it COULD be something that COULD give his identity away if it was something along the lines of “Turn around ya varmints and go” (Down the Hill)
Just an example. People use so many different turns of phrase distinctly individual to them. Would love to know what was cut out, just to hear if there’s anything relevant. But LE are the experts, I am just theorising, while we wait ...

 

[Charlot123]

pedophillac child selection and serial killer selection is not an exact science. mOO

You know, thanks to someone’s post, I read about Bitsa Maniac, Aleksander Pichushkin. My impression is, like in Israel Keys’ case, many of these maniacs are not too selective. They’d want you to think that they prefer a certain type (Pichushkin was almost a “scavenger”, killing old, sick alcoholics), but IRL, it is whoever they meet when they fancy to hunt. And of course, they don’t want to admit to killing children, but even Ted Bundy, alongside with his “pretty college students with parted hair”, killed, likely, two young girls. I don’t think it is selective - it can be a child, or a young mother, or indeed, some old, disheveled, guy. Maybe serial killers become less organized with time. Some other things might be prevalent in serial killers, such as lack of normal emotional closeness (hence, “feeling alive” when killing), and God-like complex. Pichushkin was rather well-versed, and he explained the impulses driving him to kill better than Keyes, so I understood a lot by reading his monologues.

But in general, I think, it more depended on the day than on the person for most of them.

 

[racer308d]

There are similarities in the Evansdale and Delphi cases. Both involved double abductions of 2 females in broad daylight during the afternoon, and as far as we know, no witnesses. Both occurred in an isolated rec area near water, 2 of the victims, Lyric and Libby, were raised by their grandparents, both had 2 middle names (Ray Lynn and Rose Lynn), and the 2 are similar in body type, facial features and hair color. Interestingly JBC has lived in Iowa and South Dakota, having close connections to a town 20 miles west of where Alicia Hummel, who also had a similar body type and facial features, also raised by grandparents, was murdered, also during the afternoon at a rec area near water. JBC then requested to leave the state and be transferred to Indiana, which was granted in December of that year (he was on probation). Are they all connected? I don't know for sure. Just coincidences and similarities I believe to exist and is why I'm not ruling him out until LE does. MOO. Edited to add MOO

 

[Charlot123]

I'm frustrated as well. But I wonder: What can they release that won't jeopardize the case or a connection to a future crime? The cause of death really isn't likely to be of any help to the public. Former prosecutor, Ives, stated there were 3 signatures. But if they release those might the killer change to avoid a connection with any future murder? The vehicle LE mentions being parked at the now demolished CPS building in the April 2019 PC is one item I wonder about. Why keep that secret? LE in other crimes have given out vehicle descriptions. It would seem if someone has a suspicion about a potential POI the vehicle make or model might push them to call it in. Of course it is possible this person is really just an undiscovered witness but even that might help the case further.

The longer LE waits the greater the chance a memory fades or a potential tipster dies.

We, the public, simply don't know anything. Our perception of the situation was constructed out of (very little) official information, plus what the media told us, plus the work of some local enthusiasts, who, sincere as they were, probably were not Miss Marple. And then, of course, all these podcasts. Our imagination might be wrong, and probably, is, remember, for example, how LE said that no one had reconstructed the bridge scene correctly?

But today I thought, what if the police misconstrued the evidence, too, and made some logical fallacy, and is dragged along that road? Either did not notice something, or made one wrong assumption. I don't know what it was, maybe it is the BG's locality attribution, or too relying on some witnesses' memory? Assuming it was perfect, and it is not?

Simplest question, these very few people around the bridge, saw each other, and then, maybe, someone else. How would things like poor facial memory, or even, potentially, unrecognized color blindness of the witnesses, play into some mistakes that could have been made by the witnesses? We rely a lot on the colors, in this case, the jacket, the eyes. Yet 8% of people suffer from deficiency of color awareness, what if one of them was the witness?

 

[JnRyan]

We, the public, simply don't know anything. Our perception of the situation was constructed out of (very little) official information, plus what the media told us, plus the work of some local enthusiasts, who, sincere as they were, probably were not Miss Marple. And then, of course, all these podcasts. Our imagination might be wrong, and probably, is, remember, for example, how LE said that no one had reconstructed the bridge scene correctly?

But today I thought, what if the police misconstrued the evidence, too, and made some logical fallacy, and is dragged along that road? Either did not notice something, or made one wrong assumption. I don't know what it was, maybe it is the BG's locality attribution, or too relying on some witnesses' memory? Assuming it was perfect, and it is not?

Simplest question, these very few people around the bridge, saw each other, and then, maybe, someone else. How would things like poor facial memory, or even, potentially, unrecognized color blindness of the witnesses, play into some mistakes that could have been made by the witnesses? We rely a lot on the colors, in this case, the jacket, the eyes. Yet 8% of people suffer from deficiency of color awareness, what if one of them was the witness?

At the time when LE - ISP 1st Sgt Jerry Holeman in August 2017 - said no one reconstructed the scene correctly I took it at face value. (I believe that was before one YouTube'r did a recreation but tried to look at some variations of it as well.) Now I wonder if that true interpretation is "No one has correctly reconstructed the scene because WE aren't sure of it either." My view comes from the HLN interview this last February with CCSO Sheriff Leazenby's revelation that they don't know the killer's path from the crime scene. So what else in the timeline does LE not know for sure?

What if LE misconstrued the evidence? Well, we do know they had to revise the sketch so they possibly misconstrued that part. What if evidence or interpretation of evidence relating to that first sketch was hindered by the information that was related to it?

And your take on the witnesses, their memory and vision just muddies the water even further so I won't even go there.

 

[watcher9]

I am starting to think about the deliberate editing of the “Guys... Down the Hill” phrase now. What COULD have been cut out that was deemed not important for the Public to hear? IMO it COULD be something that COULD give his identity away if it was something along the lines of “Turn around ya varmints and go” (Down the Hill)
Just an example. People use so many different turns of phrase distinctly individual to them. Would love to know what was cut out, just to hear if there’s anything relevant. But LE are the experts, I am just theorising, while we wait ...

I have always thought that the girls' voices of terror could be heard in the part cut out.