Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #61

[Estelle]

Its so strange she is even saying this wouldn't the birth mother stop the adoption, did FM hav any rights to go forward with the adoption, what would happen with the sisters adoption would she hav stopped that because of WT behaviour or would she plan to adopt sister or was that what she was trying to find out with all thies emails "can she adop one with out the other without asking that direct question"
So basically she is saying if WT visits the birth mother she will not go forward with the adoption, basically I don't think she can if he is visiting his birth mother, its obvious she wants WT to stop visits with birth mother so she can go forward with adoption, behaviour or no behaviour its obvious as long as WT is having visits with his birth mother the FM can't go forward with adoption, whats the behaviour got to do with adoption, whats the different if she doesn't go through with the adoption she will still be foster parent she will still hav to put up with the behaviour of him seeing his birth mother and being emotional after, it is making no sense to me
-WT is a foster child
-its normal for foster children to hav emotional responses after seeing the birth family
-FM won't go ahead with adoption if he is seeing birth family and having emotional response
-FM wants to stop birth family visits? As the birth family were visiting every 2 weeks until salvos took over and it was changed to FM not wanting to see the birth family so salvos had to do the child swap over and this can now only happen once ever 2 months,
-i don't see how she could be in any prosses to adopt a child who sees his mother and is upset for days after he sees his mother, thats why im so curious about the sister is it a possibility that the BM has lost the right to make a decision on her potential adoption but still has a right to stop WT future adoption, is it a situation that department/agency has a first priority to keep siblings placed together and that is what is standing in the way of adoption of the sister, would FM would hav to be also adopting WT but the birth mother is in the picture making it impossible, is FM trying to remove the birth mother visits with the behaviour aspect and that didn't work now she is left with WT and his birth mother having close relationship and that situation is stopping her from adoption with the sister, i guess only the agency/ department/ lawyers and foster family are the only ones that know what would need to happen to make the adopt happen, the kids are foster kids who hav family, the foster carers are doing a job caring for the children but it seems they hav motivation behind it all and that's the potential of future adoption or why would they be in the motions for adoption unless its what they are trying to do adopt thies children,

I wonder what happened in other foster familys when its young children and they see their biological family and call biological mum "mummy" what do they call their foster mother i would assume "mummy then the name of the person" how confusing if the FM is called mummy then start calling the BM "birth mummy" obvious something is not right and the FM is not doing the right thing by the child by calling his real mum birth mother the real mother is the mother and the FM is the carer for a period if time but in this case the carer is trying to become the real mother by an adopt process but threatening the agency to not adopt the child because its birth mother is on the scene

IMO all this points to a possible motive as it was not a good situation for any of them.

 

[Oona]

could lt be the new witness, i know shes been questioned before but now shes older could have new information and has not really been mentioned at all by msm, which could be why she is "new" with new evidence?

I wonder about this too. In the "Where's William Tyrell?" podcast the foster parents talk about how LT had to keep it secret from daycare, and later school, that she was William's sister. This, they said, was to ensure being the sister of a high profile missing child did not impact her own identity. Keeping such a huge part of her identity and history secret would have made it hard for LT to develop genuine and trusting relationships with her peers and other adults in her life. She may have had to lie about lots of things to keep this part of her life secret.
I wonder how far this "keeping secrets" could have been manipulated. Was she too afraid to tell anyone about any abuse until now?

 

[bearbear]

And on top of all that, the FGM is there during that time too. It just makes it even stranger. Did she lie too? Any theory I think about, there’s all these stumbling blocks.

but if it happened quickly away from fgm and lt, they wouldnt even know, especially if he was quickly bundled into the car

 

[Doesitmakesense]

And on top of all that, the FGM is there during that time too. It just makes it even stranger. Did she lie too? Any theory I think about, there’s all these stumbling blocks.

I don't find it that hard to believe a husband would lie to cover for his wife, and I find it even easier to believe a mother would lie and cover for her daughter

 

[Angeline]

thank you GTaurus! Exactly what I’ve been looking for

A ‘witness who we had no idea about’.

NOT ‘new information has surfaced as a result of the inquest’

so - who is the ‘new, previously unknown witness’ ?

maybe one of the reported but unidentified ‘vehicle drivers’ ?

also again, I did read somewhere very recently that FF have known for some months that they are ‘of interest’.

JMO

I'm curious why this witness didn't come forward until recently. Did they attend the inquest and hear something that was previously not mentioned in the media that prompted them to come forward?

 

[bearbear]

I think

If the FFC is responsible it’s more than luck that the story had been believed IMO.
She had more time to make it that fool proof. IMO

i think lots of luck, especially with the bumbling first police who gave them all a pass, and yes as time passed and other theories put forward easy to settle into a feeling of being in control and confidence

 

[SleepyJoe]

I wonder about this too. In the "Where's William Tyrell?" podcast the foster parents talk about how LT had to keep it secret from daycare, and later school, that she was William's sister. This, they said, was to ensure being the sister of a high profile missing child did not impact her own identity. Keeping such a huge part of her identity and history secret would have made it hard for LT to develop genuine and trusting relationships with her peers and other adults in her life. She may have had to lie about lots of things to keep this part of her life secret.
I wonder how far this "keeping secrets" could have been manipulated. Was she too afraid to tell anyone about any abuse until now?

Poor thing. What a horrible way to grow up - to have to keep such a big secret from everyone else in her life. From personal experience, having family secrets feels just awful for a child. And now she *(apparently, from my reading of the media only)* has been taken from the only parents she has really ever known (ie the FPs), because they have hurt her!! IMO, there were 2 victims 12/9/14, WT and LT.

*edit

 

[Aimee2]

They were both great sleuths, loved Makara’s maps etc.

They sure were , along with Alioop and DS.

 

[Waverider]

You have something to back up this generalisation?(The bolded statement)

It's not about rising above anything, it's about keeping things accurate and not letting the media and other players and forum posters slander you. He has a right to defend himself. And to pursue legal action if he sees fit.

https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/__dat...9/13478_Media_Policy_2016_Update_may_2020.pdf
NSW Police Media Policy
See p. 16 - information that can be released during an investigation prior to an arrest:
“descriptions of suspects and vehicles, weapons, clothes and other articles involved, if it does not hinder an investigation or later prosecution.”

 

[Toffeeapple]

Just a thought popped into my mind, could they already have Williams remains?? Hence why they are being so confident they will find him. The media having such close up access is a way to apply pressure for a confession from someone??

 

[Serenanicole]

i think lots of luck, especially with the bumbling first police who gave them all a pass, and yes as time passed and other theories put forward easy to settle into a feeling of being in control and confidence

with the current timeframe we have there is not a lot of time to come up with a story that has covered all bases though. So if with the timeline we have is correct and truthful then yes it’s luck. Has to be. IMO.
But this very public and cinematic search currently underway that does nothing to hide that she is a POI - the current one and only POI, it tells me that her story is being considered untruthful. The entire version of events could be fabricated.
This may not have been an accident. Tempers may have flared and William may have died as a result of harm.
It is not a coincidence that the POI is going to court for alleged assault on a child (not William) in her care. Or is it?

 

[Serenanicole]

Just a thought popped into my mind, could they already have Williams remains?? Hence why they are being so confident they will find him. The media having such close up access is a way to apply pressure for a confession from someone??

Anything is possible

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I'm returning to FM's story but making up my own theory of what happened.

What if FM thought WT was somewhere safe when he wasn't? They'd gone for a walk earlier, kids rode their bikes, played in the yard, took their shoes off and came into the house, had a bite to eat and seemed content to sit and draw pictures on the deck, FM took pics of WT and sister drawing, they're barefoot, FGM reading the local paper.

10.05 am- 10.10 am - FM and FGM went inside, chit chatting or deep in conversation about concerns for WT or other issues, maybe, she was looking around the house to check nothing else needs doing for this sale, FGM prepares another cup of tea, both still chit chatting and FM lost track of time.

Iirc, LT came inside to use the toilet in this time period, and FM said she didn't need assistance, so was she even aware LT had come inside to use the toilet, or, did she find out later after WT went missing and questioned LT about the events?

Before LT went to the toilet, WT had put his shoes on by himself and said to her, 'I can see daddy...I'm looking for daddy.....or, daddy's here?' (not sure exact words LT remembered)
Or, After LT returned from the toilet, WT had already shoes on and he says, 'I can see daddy.....' and he looks over railing and then, runs off into the yard.

FM hadn't seen WT put his shoes on by himself before. A lot of kids are difficult at this age about shoes, especially if the mum is in a hurry.

10.25am - 10.30 am - When FM returns to the patio with FGM and cups of tea, WT is gone and so are his shoes! She's shocked and then, goes into a panic!

10.25am- FF texts he'll be home in 5 minutes, FM desperately searching around the yard and part of the street.

10.30am - FF returns, FM tells him WT has disappeared and both search and make contact with neighbours to help.

FM is acting cagey about the shoes because she never saw him put them on. WT and LT had been left unattended for...15 -20 minutes? That's a long time for littlies to be left alone and imo, she feels guilty and helpless. She risks losing LT and is devastated she let William down.

In 15 - 20 minutes a lot could've happened. WT could've have run god knows where, there's no fences, he's not familiar with the area, he's not a 'wanderer' but there's always a first time. WT could've been abducted anywhere in the street, front of someone's yard or hit by a car further down the street and taken away......

In saying all that, FM is sensitive about questions regarding the 'shoes', the amount of 'time' WT and LT were left alone on patio, when LT 'went to the toilet', when she 'heard WT's growling'.

I'm guessing FM drove around searching at approximately 10.40 am and returned to make 000 call at the house at 10.56 am. Time driving 10-15 minutes at the most.

JMO

 

[PolyDot]

I'm curious why this witness didn't come forward until recently. Did they attend the inquest and hear something that was previously not mentioned in the media that prompted them to come forward?

Was told the information in last couple of years .? Because this person was not known previously .. so nurse on deathbed etc etc .. someone boasting jail ?

 

[SLouTh]

New William Tyrrell ‘witness’ steps up during Kendall creek search | Daily Telegraph

An elderly man has stopped and spoken to a detective at the site of the current dig to say he saw something dumped from a vehicle on the morning William disappeared.

Shown a picture of a vehicle of interest the man said: “I’m pretty sure that’s the car I saw.”
“Who was driving, I don’t know,” he added. “It’s only a theory.”

 

[organised_chaos]

I have been looking at the footage of the McDonalds visit. Wondering if this was in any way 'planned' and therefore giving lots more time to prepare? JMO MOO IMO

Chilling new images of William Tyrrell with his foster family released

 

[bearbear]

with the current timeframe we have there is not a lot of time to come up with a story that has covered all bases though. So if with the timeline we have is correct and truthful then yes it’s luck. Has to be. IMO.
But this very public and cinematic search currently underway that does nothing to hide that she is a POI - the current one and only POI, it tells me that her story is being considered untruthful. The entire version of events could be fabricated.
This may not have been an accident. Tempers may have flared and William may have died as a result of harm.
It is not a coincidence that the POI is going to court for alleged assault on a child (not William) in her care. Or is it?

i agree and the event itself may have been mulled over for awhile, all the scenarios thought out, especially if there was despair, and then loss of temper, the alleged assault in my opinion shows anger and control issues

 

[EllaN1]

Just a thought popped into my mind, could they already have Williams remains?? Hence why they are being so confident they will find him. The media having such close up access is a way to apply pressure for a confession from someone??

That's what I thought. Someone may have discovered bones. My dog certainly likes to sniff and dig when we go on bush walks.

 

[organised_chaos]

I'm returning to FM's story but making up my own theory of what happened.

What if FM thought WT was somewhere safe when he wasn't? They'd gone for a walk earlier, kids rode their bikes, played in the yard, took their shoes off and came into the house, had a bite to eat and seemed content to sit and draw pictures on the deck, FM took pics of WT and sister drawing, they're barefoot, FGM reading the local paper.

10.05 am- 10.10 am - FM and FGM went inside, chit chatting or deep in conversation about concerns for WT or other issues, maybe, she was looking around the house to check nothing else needs doing for this sale, FGM prepares another cup of tea, both still chit chatting and FM lost track of time.

Iirc, LT came inside to use the toilet in this time period, and FM said she didn't need assistance, so was she even aware LT had come inside to use the toilet, or, did she find out later after WT went missing and questioned LT about the events?

Before LT went to the toilet, WT had put his shoes on by himself and said to her, 'I can see daddy...I'm looking for daddy.....or, daddy's here?' (not sure exact words LT remembered)
Or, After LT returned from the toilet, WT had already shoes on and he says, 'I can see daddy.....' and he looks over railing and then, runs off into the yard.

FM hadn't seen WT put his shoes on by himself before. A lot of kids are difficult at this age about shoes, especially if the mum is in a hurry.

10.25am - 10.30 am - When FM returns to the patio with FGM and cups of tea, WT is gone and so are his shoes! She's shocked and then, goes into a panic!

10.25am- FF texts he'll be home in 5 minutes, FM desperately searching around the yard and part of the street.

10.30am - FF returns, FM tells him WT has disappeared and both search and make contact with neighbours to help.

FM is acting cagey about the shoes because she never saw him put them on. WT and LT had been left unattended for...15 -20 minutes? That's a long time for littlies to be left alone and imo, she feels guilty and helpless. She risks losing LT and is devastated she let William down.

In 15 - 20 minutes a lot could've happened. WT could've have run god knows where, there's no fences, he's not familiar with the area, he's not a 'wanderer' but there's always a first time. WT could've been abducted anywhere in the street, front of someone's yard or hit by a car further down the street and taken away......

In saying all that, FM is sensitive about questions regarding the 'shoes', the amount of 'time' WT and LT were left alone on patio, when LT 'went to the toilet', when she 'heard WT's growling'.

I'm guessing FM drove around searching at approximately 10.40 am and returned to make 000 call at the house at 10.56 am. Time driving 10-15 minutes at the most.

JMO

Yes, I was digging on a similar theory a little while ago. LT was put 'in charge' of WT and that this could be seen as negligence and that the time of disappearing was a whole longer as no one actually knew.

 

[PolyDot]

with the current timeframe we have there is not a lot of time to come up with a story that has covered all bases though. So if with the timeline we have is correct and truthful then yes it’s luck. Has to be. IMO.
But this very public and cinematic search currently underway that does nothing to hide that she is a POI - the current one and only POI, it tells me that her story is being considered untruthful. The entire version of events could be fabricated.
This may not have been an accident. Tempers may have flared and William may have died as a result of harm.
It is not a coincidence that the POI is going to court for alleged assault on a child (not William) in her care. Or is it?

Some of reasons Parents who kill their children
1) accidentally / usually signs that parents not coping / children neglected / other injuries
2) murder & suicide-
3) in spite - dv/ separation , male partners wants to punish mother

is there any credible evidence of foster family being neglectful/ violent prior to WT disappearance ?
I not saying it couldn’t happen but I am struggling to see it.