Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #62

[Seriallyaddicted]

Apparently this search of those same nearby areas is different as they are using ground penetrating radar, which they must not have been using in any initial searches, as they must have involved only searchers walking through the bush. The implication is that WTs body was more deeply buried than a casual scan of the bush could detect it.

I'm beginning to think WTs sister is key to this new development.

I agree, I’m thinking it must be information that WT’s foster sister knows and has passed onto police. Perhaps she has heard her foster parents talk about it or remembers a trip to the location.
Surely the police wouldn’t embark on this level of chasing new evidence without highly credible information. The police would need this other evidence to verify what someone has said in order to prosecute and this is what the police are trying to find and are looking for any clue that can help verify the other critical witness evidence.

 

[canarybird]

Dogs would be very likely to detect such a burial. Many times have we heard of bodies being stumbled upon by people out walking their dogs.

I know that police used tracker dogs in the early stages of the case, and I know they are using cadaver dogs now, but I don't know if cadaver dogs were used earlier. You'd want to hope so, but the whole thing has been a schemozzle from Day 1.

In an episode of the Ten podcast the FFC says that when the sniffer dogs arrived she grabbed some of William's items to take down to them but the officer said they wouldn't be needed as these were cadaver dogs. What a confronting thing to hear!

 

[bfew]

Codenames are randomly selected from a database of more than 100,000 words. The purpose of a random word generator is to remove any ability to derive the type, purpose or target of the operation from the actual codeword assigned to an operation.

So if the computer generated codename randomly ends up being too close to the name of a suspect or potential suspect in the case at the time of the codename generation, do the guidelines allow for a new codename to be randomly generated?

 

[Blues Clues]

The Camden Haven and Kendall areas were on a list of black spots at the time.

"Other resident spoke of black spots on the Pacific Highway, Lake Cathie, Camden Haven and Kendall and a representative from NSW Fire and Rescue highlighted the safety issues of having poor or non-existent radio and mobile phone coverage."

Mobile black spots: 6000 centres vie for 300 stations | Camden Haven Courier | Laurieton, NSW (camdencourier.com.au)

 

[JBowie]

In an episode of the Ten podcast the FFC says that when the sniffer dogs arrived she grabbed some of William's items to take down to them but the officer said they wouldn't be needed as these were cadaver dogs. What a confronting thing to hear!

Cadaver dogs on Day 1? Sounds odd to me. In a suspected abduction/wandering off, police use tracker dogs to try to find a trail.

 

[Trmtrm2]

In an episode of the Ten podcast the FFC says that when the sniffer dogs arrived she grabbed some of William's items to take down to them but the officer said they wouldn't be needed as these were cadaver dogs. What a confronting thing to hear!

I wonder if there are any other confirmation of cadaver dogs being used, or is it only the Foster mothers word

 

[JBowie]

So if the computer generated codename randomly ends up being too close to the name of a suspect or potential suspect in the case at the time of the codename generation, do the guidelines allow for a new codename to be randomly generated?

I would expect so. Common sense has to apply at some level with such procedures.

 

[The gavel]

I wonder if it’s possible that if an incident occurred at the house & William was injured significantly enough to lead the FFC to assume he was dead, but he wasn’t & when he was hidden away in the bush, he eventually woke up & wondered further away ending up outside of the original search areas.
I can’t understand how he could have been missed in the original search if he was dumped so close by

The area of bush they are searching now wasn't searched before.

 

[JBowie]

I wonder if there are any other confirmation of cadaver dogs being used, or is it only the Foster mothers word

She's reported in another place of saying that the police dogs could not find a trail of William beyond the property and blamed that on the number of people coming and going at the property at the time.

I recall thinking seems she doesn't know that tracking/trailing dogs can focus on just one scent, which is why they are used.

 

[SouthAussie]

I wonder if there are any other confirmation of cadaver dogs being used, or is it only the Foster mothers word

Yes, it has been reported independently before. It happened a couple of times. In 2014 and again in 2018.


Sniffer dogs have failed to pick up any scent of the three-year-old William Tyrell on the NSW mid-north coast, fuelling fears he may not have wandered away from home.
Neither police sniffer dogs nor cadaver dogs had been able to pick up any sign of the boy, Fehon said.
William Tyrell search: police say sniffer dogs have found no trace of boy
Tue 16 Sep 2014

Search teams and cadaver dogs will now return to the main, larger search area near William's grandmother's home from where the toddler disappeared in September 2014.
New lead as second William Tyrrell search finishes
29 June 2018

 

[Green beans]

I am sure @Gotta have Faith will be able to provide an MSM link and explain.

In Caroline overingtons book ‘missing William tyrell’ she wrote page 22

“it’s not always easy to get ready for work with two kids under four, of course, and he did at one point get a bit exasperated. ‘You take care of you’ Williams foster mum told him soothingly. ‘I’ll do the kids and you just do what you need to’

Is this what you meant by Ff mood that morning?

 

[Estelle]

Missing boy William Tyrrell’s doomed life - August 2019 - News.com.au

August 25 to September 1: Foster mother tees up visit with her husband to travel with William and his sister to her mother’s place on Benaroon Drive, Kendall, to sort through property prior to house sale.

Week beginning September 8: Contracts due to be exchanged on Benaroon Drive house after foster grandmother sells property to a friend of a friend.

About the same period: Ben Atwood calls William’s birth mother to tee up October visit. Birth mother is worried William is “a bit too skinny”.

11 September, 2014:

2.50pm: On a last minute change of plan, the foster mother and father leave their Sydney home, drop their cats at kennels.

4pm: The foster parents collect William and his sister from childcare and start the drive up to Kendall one day earlier than planned, via the F3, stopping en route at Caltex, Wyong and then, at 6.35pm, Raymond Terrace McDonalds.
9pm: Foster parents and William and his sister arrive at Benaroon Drive. The kids are put to bed in different rooms and the foster mother discusses broken washing machine with her mother.
8am: William and his sister wake up the foster grandmother.
The foster father, foster grandmother and William’s sister are in front of the foster mother, while William is behind her.
The foster father gets frustrated with all the noise.
The children play with the bikes kept at the property and race up the driveway, William deliberately crashing his into the garden.

Between 9am and 9.30am: Foster father leaves Benaroon Drive for Laurieton township to buy prescription drugs from pharmacy and conduct business call via Skype.
William and his sister draw pictures and roll dice on the verandah of the house, William rolling ‘the dice very hard” and “jumping out of his skin with energy”.

The foster mother photographs William for the last time. He is “roaring” in a tiger game on the verandah.

William gets bored and runs down from the verandah onto the grass.

It is now after 10am, probably between 10.10am and 10.30am.
On or after 10.30am: The foster father returns in his vehicle and when told by the foster mother William has disappeared, the foster father “just bolted ... running for William”
10.56am: Foster mother dials triple-0 informing police she’s the mother of a boy called William who has been missing for approximately 15-20 minutes.

11.06am: Police arrive at Benaroon Drive. Neighbours and locals join in search with police.

William’s foster mother calls the Salvation Army.

William Tyrrell’s doomed life

BBM

Points of concern

1. William is “a bit too skinny”.
2. The foster father gets frustrated with all the noise.
3. William deliberately crashing his bike into the garden.
4. He is “roaring” in a tiger game on the verandah.

Comments

1. Was WT not eating properly as his birth mother noticed he look too skinny? Why? Was he missing his BM?
2. MFC was in his early 50s so if he was concerned with the noise on this day, had he been concerned with the noise on other days and his patience was running out?
3. If you have given a child a bike, it would upset most parents if the child deliberately crashed it into the garden especially if it broke
4. WT's roaring and making a noise again could it have upset both FGM who was in her 70s and FFC in her late 40s

I was 40yo when I had my last child, and the best days of my life were when I was a stay at home mum and my two children were preschoolers. I used to play with them in organised activities. Each activity only lasted for about five minutes as that was their attention span - art, music, early reading, dance, pool, games and so on. We had rules and boundaries which had to be respected. Other friends often brought their children to my house to join in. If WT had anything like hyperactivity, you simply have to change the child's diet. But I get the impression from the FP's comments that WT was causing a lot of stress in their family. I realise that WT was not in his home environment but he seemed to have things to do there but IMO the FPs were not engaged with him.

 

[SouthAussie]

In Caroline overingtons book ‘missing William tyrell’ she wrote page 22

“it’s not always easy to get ready for work with two kids under four, of course, and he did at one point get a bit exasperated. ‘You take care of you’ Williams foster mum told him soothingly. ‘I’ll do the kids and you just do what you need to’

Is this what you meant by Ff mood that morning?

Thank you. This sounds a lot more like a normal family, with a parent who is trying to get ready for a work meeting.

By OP's post ... "Why did FF say He was annoyed at the noise WT was making before he left?" .... I thought it was something more, and was just about William (as opposed to being about the morning rabble by two little ones).

 

[Estelle]

A creek bed is my guess.

My guess is that WT would have been placed in a creek bed which had water in it and weighed down as that requires little time or mess.

 

[Awakening]

"During the first three years following William’s abduction, one key fact about the case was withheld from the public. Initial reports stated that he went missing from his grandmother’s home and referred to the adults he was in the care of as his parents.

However, this was not the case. When William Tyrell vanished, he was actually in out-of-home care and the Kendall house where he disappeared belonged to his foster grandmother.

In 2016, child protection activist Allana Pearl Smith initiated a petition for a coronial inquest into the disappearance of William Tyrrell.

The FACS secretary then sought a permanent injunction to restrain Ms Smith from publishing information that conveyed William had been placed in foster care, was under the parental responsibility of the FACS minister, and was a ward of the state.

There has also been a lot of unnecessary suppression of facts surrounding William’s complicated background and care arrangements.

The general public were lied to and led to think that William’s foster carers were his real parents, when in fact they were not.

Also, the choice of the foster carers not to identify themselves at all leads to the rise in public interest around William’s case."

Source: The Rights of Vulnerable Children: An Interview with Walking Warriors Australia

 

[organised_chaos]

"During the first three years following William’s abduction, one key fact about the case was withheld from the public. Initial reports stated that he went missing from his grandmother’s home and referred to the adults he was in the care of as his parents.

However, this was not the case. When William Tyrell vanished, he was actually in out-of-home care and the Kendall house where he disappeared belonged to his foster grandmother.

In 2016, child protection activist Allana Pearl Smith initiated a petition for a coronial inquest into the disappearance of William Tyrrell.

The FACS secretary then sought a permanent injunction to restrain Ms Smith from publishing information that conveyed William had been placed in foster care, was under the parental responsibility of the FACS minister, and was a ward of the state.

There has also been a lot of unnecessary suppression of facts surrounding William’s complicated background and care arrangements.

The general public were lied to and led to think that William’s foster carers were his real parents, when in fact they were not.

Also, the choice of the foster carers not to identify themselves at all leads to the rise in public interest around William’s case."

Source: The Rights of Vulnerable Children: An Interview with Walking Warriors Australia

Thanks for sharing this - this is a great read! I am wondering (and hoping) that the mess this has been from the start before WT disappearance will trigger a royal commission of some sort?

 

[vatzjr]

Is there any legitimate information available on the foster grandmother? Did she speak at the inquest? Are there statements? The perceived "silence" of her, whilst having legal explanations, is so frustrating, in contrast to the foster parents. Perhaps she had dementia, but her absence does create the appearance of secrecy.

According to the second statement taken by WT's sister, she backs up FFC's story for the most part. First, she says WT went looking for "Daddy's car," but then she says she doesn't know what happened after "Daddy Tiger." Hmmn. In the 60 Minutes interview, FFC also asks WT 'Can you see Daddy's car?' which has two possible interpretations (either MFC was driving up Benaroon Road--making the timing of the kidnapping mind-boggling--or MFC mistakenly though that WT was roaring his way to MFC's incoming car).

I've just started listening to the CO podcast (Thank you @canarybird ). She seems prepared for whatever is coming next.

I wish by some miracle that FF are totally innocent and the assault is a misunderstanding. For the poor young girls sake. Her heart must be broken poor little love

I agree. I also struggle with the idea that foster family or members of are guilty in some way, especially considering the implications.

I guess the theories are *****SPECULATION*****:

A) It was one of ten or so neighbours tucked away in the enclave with an eye-line to Nanna's who was part of a paedophile ring. He immediately acted that morning after realising that the 3-year-old boy who visits Nanna's is back. The boy wasn't even supposed to be there until later that day. The neighbour alerted someone in this paedophile ring, and, within no more than 3 hours or so (in the MFC's absence), WT was gone, never to be seen again. That person may have driven a grey/green car who drove up Benaroon Road whilst the kids played on bikes, passed Nanna's, backed in and out of a neighbour's driveway and then drove back down Benaroon Road. At some point, the grey/green car drives down Ellendale Crescent and turns around, followed by a white car, and parks right across from the back of Nanna's house, waiting for an opportunity to snatch WT. They see their opportunity within an hour or so (after MFC leaves) when WT walks around the hill away from family playing "Daddy Tiger." Someone or some people covertly lure WT over to one of their cars in a manner where he does not fear for his life and obliges them. He is kidnapped and never seen again.

B) WT met with accident, such as climbing on the back verandah, pretending he was Spider-Man, and falling in a way that his landing proves fatal. At this point, I would defer to @SleepyJoe 's really well-thought out theory.

Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #61

C) There was premeditation on the part of the foster family. I don't really have the imagination for this. This would also have to mean that WT was an "imposition" on their lives to the point where they couldn't even give him back to the state (I'm not sure how this would threaten their parentage over his sisters, unless they would be violating an obligation to take them both and face losing the sister). I even struggle with the motive based on what information is out there, even though there are some compelling elements. But, whatever happens, they manage to do it without the knowledge of WT's sister or the foster grandmother (the sister's recollection of events is pretty convincing). There had to be a level of calculation, manipulation, and gaslighting to execute and pull off a plan of action this high level.

This is heartwrenching.

I think it's important for people to watch this.

 

[minusfour]

So if the computer generated codename randomly ends up being too close to the name of a suspect or potential suspect in the case at the time of the codename generation, do the guidelines allow for a new codename to be randomly generated?

In Victoria in the 80s, there was a investigation codenamed "Cyclops". This was investigating the criminal activities of a family, whose matriarch had lost an eye due to a shooting incident. The random generated names might have started after this, it was much enjoyed in the media at the time.

 

[JudgeJudi]

So if the computer generated codename randomly ends up being too close to the name of a suspect or potential suspect in the case at the time of the codename generation, do the guidelines allow for a new codename to be randomly generated?

Hopefully this will explain it a bit better. There are 100,000 words held on a computer, but the computer doesn't generate the name of the operation.

A person will select one or two names from that list of words. The words can be just about anything - fish, plants, battleships, castles, fonts, gemstones, you name it. You could choose one word, 2 words and join them together or 2 individual words.

In Canada for example, the military chooses their first word starting with the first letter of the region where the operation will be conducted. So if the location was Montreal, the first word could be any word starting with M, so you could have Maverick or Metal Horses. There aren't any guidelines.

 

[Awakening]

Has there ever been an appeal for information in relation to the FGM’s Mazda? I recall the FFC saying she passed a semi-trailer on Batar Road and she said the driver probably thought she was pulled over but she actually had her head out the window looking for WT. I wonder what more there is to know about her time in the car that morning and what people might have seen.

For that matter, given the supression of information about the FP’s identities, was any information ever sought from the public about the MFC’s trip that morning?

Don't get me started on the semi trailer driver again

I don't know whether details of FGMs car were ever released until now.

We know the FMs face has never been shown.

So assuming the FGMs car was never released publicly and if someone/s did see the FGMs car and FM, well they'd never know they'd seen something related to WT case. IMO. MOO.