Amanda Knox Discussion-Friendly Thread

I once thought Knox was an innocent girl who was wrongly charged. But, as I have delved into her case, and let us never forget that Meredith Kercher was brutally slain, I believe Knox is a murderer. I have read almost the 10,000 pages of evidence that was collected by the Italian Police.

At the time of the murder Knox had been in Perugia for only six weeks. The sixth week was spent having basically non-stop sex (stated once at three times in one day) with her new friend Raffaele Sollecito, (23) who was in fact a cashed-up virgin. Had his own apartment, cleaning lady and brand new Audi A3. They became non stop skunk smokers. Records from Knox's banks account showed her spending had increased after meeting Raffia - buying skunk from Rudy Guede, a local drug-dealer.
Rudy, like Knox, had a dysfunctional up brings, as did Raffa also. Interesting? Sollecito was a shy, doll playing child. He loved washing Knox, cleaning her ears and brushing her hair.

Amanda's sex drive has been well documented. She had an aggressive sex style, enjoyed dominating in cow-girl style with a Muay Thai neck clinch on her sex partners and loved it. Six weeks in Perugia and she had bedded five men, not including Raffaele. She even had sex on her first day in Europe, after meeting a man (later proven to be a known heroin dealer) on the train, accompanied by her sister.

She was totally disliked by Meredith and her English friends. Meredith was sick of her boisterous ways, not cleaning or flushing urine from the toilet, leaving her dildo out in the bathroom, selfish privileged opinion of herself, bringing strange men home to have sex with and generally being not altogether a participant. And this was in the first six weeks! Even her other two flat mates decided to make up a cleaning roster so all would be fair. Knox hardly complied.

Knox's jealousy and rage of Meredith (who was recently offered a job at Le Chic where Knox also had a job) by Patrick Lumumba, in the soon eventuality he was to sack Knox, because of her flirting with men while working at Le Chic). Knox's jealousy and rage of Meredith frothed over after Meredith didn't invite her to the previous nights Halloween Party, with her friends. Knox's cell phone records show that Knox attempted to call Meredith seven times that night, and Meredith didn't answer. This caused Knox, the following night, to entwine Raffa (who was sex drunk with her), and Rudy Guede into the bizarre confrontation with Meredith on the murder night. As it started out was not meant to conclude with murder, but high on skunk, and possibly cocaine (Raffa used it) led to dramatic consequences.

She lied, and lied and lied. Changed her story so many times. Wrote a five page email at 2:45 am on Nov 4th to many. Taking a closer look into that long email (which was contradicted by her later) there are clues of her guilt. Like the Ramsey 'war and peace' ransom note, it is all there.

She had a dysfunctional upbringing. Was far too young to travel to Italy, but wanted to party.

A note was left on the gate of Meredith's university (Nov 4th), which was a hand-written advertisement for a vacant room to board. Asked for an English speaking girl. And gave the phone number as the date of Meredith's death. Amanda is mad, she wrote it.

Yes, I believe that she is a narcissistic psychopath with a Borderline personality disorder.

She will take her sin with her until her death. And just wallows in defending herself. Knox must have some strong dreams that haunt her.

There are so many other items to reference. The Italian police, who were inept at dealing with the initial evidence, still believe that she was part of a team of killers. Meredith Kercher's family believe she killed their daughter. Raff's father said that he thought Amanda was a vampire, and wished his son never meet her.

They, (Knox and Raffa) spent many hours (if not all) in the early morning of Nov 2nd cleaning up the blood and removing as much DNA they could think of. There is a car park above the Villa (Knox's residence) that looks down across the road to it. Very late that night (the murder night), a couple noticed a man looking over the railing down to where the villa was. They both said he looked like Harry Potter. Raff was keeping a look-out while Knox cleaned. That's why they both looked totally exhausted the next day and comforting one another.

The night of the murder a woman living about the villa on the other side of the street, heard a blood curdling scream. Soon after she heard the sound of running feet, going off in TWO directions. Knox retuned later with Raffa to clean up the blood and remove as many fingerprints as they could. They did an excellent job, as only a few prints of Knox was found by the police, even though she had been living there for six weeks!

The half a footprint blood imprint on the bathroom floor towel was left there by Raff as he showered to get blood from himself. Raff has a hammer toe, which the police could see in the foot print. The other half of the print (on the tiles) had been removed. The police found Rudy's shoe prints, and later via forensic investigation, they saw bare foot prints (bloodied) on the villa floor. Knox's and Raff's.

Why didn't Knox flush Rudy's stools? Anyone would flush a toilet if they saw turds in it. She knew who it belonged to. Left Rudy's DNA also., because he bolted after the murder. A woman heard a terrifying scream about 10:30 pm ish, and soon after heard people running away in two different directions. One thumping on the road leading down from the villa, the other was leaves being trampled where their small six car villa parking space was. Knox and Raff soon returned to do the clean up. The staged break in, was badly done.

At 6:45 am on Nov 2nd, when Knox stated she slept until 10:00 am, the owner of a 7/11 type store noticed a young woman waiting for it to be opened. He saw a white skinned woman with piercing blue eyes. Said that she walked straight away to the cleaning section. The owner pointed to Knox in court as the woman he saw. Raffs apartment smelt of strong bleach the next day as noticed by the police. DNA of both Knox and Meredith was found on Raffs large kitchen knife. This was later rejected by big $money.

She lied about being harassed by the police. Also she implicated her boss, Patrick Lumumba who owned Le Chic bar. Implicated him as the murderer and he spent two weeks in jail until his alibi was proven true. Ruined his business, his wife and children received death threats and he left Italy. Knox was sentenced to three years in the slammer for that one. Patrick sued Knox and successfully won $50,000 of which Knox has never paid. Even though she earned four million dollars for her book which was ghost written. I've read that also.

She had a police record before going to Italy. The year before she held a wild, booze and sex fuelled party at her rental (just off grounds from her college), which necessitated to the police to be called by neighbours. She was fined $240.

She went hysterical when asked to open the kitchen knife draw at the villa. Overwhelming culpability.

I say she got away with it.

The Italian Prosecutors would love to appeal her last acquittal, but too much political strife would be involved. The American people were on Knox's side, and even petitioned then Sec. of State Hillary Clinton to intervene. However the British sided with Meredith's family. As for me I am Australian.
 
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She was diagnosed when? Since you say it's a fact?

She has been diagnosed by leading scholars. Please research this.

"she loves the sound of her own voice" it just loses me.

Now Ducky, it is proven yet again.
When Knox arrived in Peruja, the first week Meredith introduced her to her English friends. They went to Le Chic bar.

During the evening while there, Knox suddenly stood up and started singing at the top of her voice.

No reason, other than to over-do it? Nerves? Feeling small? Feeling empty? Go figure Ducky, but she did love the sound of her own voice. FACT.

Meredith's friends were startled and embarrassed, as Knox was drawing unnecessary attention to their table. From that night the English girls wanted less and less to do with Knox.

Now if someone did that at a table I was sitting at, I would think what a blowhard (US term), or what a prick (universal term), or what a bloody dingo (Australian term). It would not only lose me, I would piss me off!




I don't doubt that I will not convince you. But given what you write here, I would encourage you to ask yourself a question: Do you think you're being persuasive? Because when you start going into wholly unrelated bits like "dysfunctional upbringing" (her parents divorced, my god) and "she loves the sound of her own voice" it just loses me. I've seen this kind of writing on the pro-guilt websites, and it all just seems so petty.


Yes, Knox did love the sound of her own voice. You must do more research. Me thinks, you have just scratched the surface.

Now Ducky, it is proven yet again.
When Knox arrived in Peruja, the first week Meredith introduced her to her English friends. They went to Le Chic bar.

During the evening while there, Knox suddenly stood up and started singing at the top of her voice.

No reason, other than to over-do it? Nerves? Feeling small? Feeling empty? Go figure Ducky, but she did love the sound of her own voice. FACT.

Meredith's friends were startled and embarrassed, as Knox was drawing unnecessary attention to their table. From that night the English girls wanted less and less to do with Knox.

Now if someone did that at a table I was sitting at, I would think what a blowhard (US term), or what a (universal term), or what a bloody dingo (Australian term). It would not only lose me, I would piss me off!

You are sounding a bit smug Ducky. Have I ruffled your feathers?

McDuck - please research Knox's childhood, in detail, as I don't have the time to put out the facts. Reference when she was conceived; divorce when 1 year old; ostracised inadvertently by her father, after he had two children with his new wife; Knox's mother also remarried, to a man 17 years her younger. He could have been Knox's older brother.
Knox had no idea that her father was accompanying her mother to Peruja to see her in jail, 2007. When Knox saw her father, she said, "Oh, you're here". Now be a sleuth Ducky.
 
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I ran across this video by accident and could not find it on WS. I found references to the video and article, but not the video itself. So I thought I'd post it on this thread:

FBI Agent Steve Moore Claims Amanda Knox Is Innocent of Murder ABC News

published on Sep 2, 2010 - by Injustice Anywhere

 
Rudy gets out...'I know the truth and she knows the truth'
Legal papers say there were other people there... and RG did not inflict the fatal wounds.

Uh oh AK... some more attention to the actual facts will NOT be good for you at all.
 
Rudy gets out...'I know the truth and she knows the truth'
Legal papers say there were other people there... and RG did not inflict the fatal wounds.

Uh oh AK... some more attention to the actual facts will NOT be good for you at all.

Doubtful. It's the same old story Rudy has told for years. Nothing new added; he can't, since the lie needs to be maintained. Right now he's petitioning courts, claiming asylum so he won't be deported as a convicted violent offender. Telling the truth now might jeopardize that. It would be the decent thing to do to the Kercher family as well as Amanda and Raffaele, but he's obviously looking out for number one.
 
Well... he basically names her as being there. Obviously he can't say she was a killer for legal reasons. He knows- she knows- RS knows.
 
Well... he basically names her as being there. Obviously he can't say she was a killer for legal reasons. He knows- she knows- RS knows.

I mean, yes, Rudy is lying, and they all know that, Rudy included. But, again, it's the same song and verse as he's sung for the past thirteen years. No one (except from a few diehards) believes him anyway.
 
Nah. If she was innocent he would say so. Absolutely no reason not to. He has done his time. She did plenty of time I think... but will not/never admit to it.
 
Nah. If she was innocent he would say so. Absolutely no reason not to. He has done his time. She did plenty of time I think... but will not/never admit to it.

He has every reason to not say so. If you read his comments over the past few years, he is painting himself as a poor victim of judicial miscarriage, a sacrifical lamb while the actual killers went free. Rudy has planned to build a new life among sympathetic people (the aforementioned diehards), and is looking for a new residence permit in Italy. Everything is built on him not being the killer, and not having lied to the court and the public for 13 years. Doing a 180 would jeopardize both.

Amanda believed he might tell the truth out of compassion for his victims and their families, but she can still be rather naive.
 
He has every reason to not say so. If you read his comments over the past few years, he is painting himself as a poor victim of judicial miscarriage, a sacrifical lamb while the actual killers went free. Rudy has planned to build a new life among sympathetic people (the aforementioned diehards), and is looking for a new residence permit in Italy. Everything is built on him not being the killer, and not having lied to the court and the public for 13 years. Doing a 180 would jeopardize both.

Amanda believed he might tell the truth out of compassion for his victims and their families, but she can still be rather naive.
You're right. That's a good point.

Amanda Knox's husband lashes out at Meredith Kercher's 'cruel' murderer Rudy Guede | Daily Mail Online

"Knox, Kercher's American housemate, spent four years in prison for the crime but was acquitted in 2015, along with her former boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito.

Knox's husband Christopher Robinson hit back at Guede, slamming the 'lies of Rudy Guede who without a doubt killed Meredith Kercher.'

'This is cruel to Amanda as well as the Kercher family,' he tweeted."
 
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something very bad happened that night.

the whole of everything around the kitchen knives defies any kind of logic...everyone knows you should not carry a knife to protect yourself unless you know how to use it.

I guess that A was intensely jealous of MK and some kind of psychosis arose from this, perhaps they were all at the house when MK came home..perhaps MK was asking about her money and there were only the three people there who could have taken it...Rudy, Raf or Amanda. Perhaps she threatened to call the police on them...and this is when the attempts to restrain MK went out of control..I think AK and RS were high on something. I think MK was held down by the guys who were trying to keep her from calling police when AK produced this knife and murdered her in a fit of rage at being accused of stealing her money and maybe even stealing clothes and makeup in front of her new boyfriend and thus making her out to be a low class drug addict. I really believe she would tell on the guys for holding MK down as accessories to her murder...when really they were just trying to keep her from the phone.

I think she convinced Rudy and Raf it happened because she was hallucinating or something so they all covered it up together

I think she would do it again..all of the crazy details in this case are preposterous and as a whole make absolutely no sense..I am sure the clothes were all over because MK was looking for her missing articles.

in the old drug days of the seventies...this would be called a bad scene.

mOO
 
another thought I had was that they were all there and in the midst of this situation they locked Meredith in her room away from her phone...they knew no-one was in the building..maybe they put her in there so they could think what to do...maybe during this time Rudy slipped in there and raped her and this is when the whole scene blew up.

some one I know was visiting a couple at their apartment..the couple began to fight...my friend stepped in to try and stop it...and the couple turned and beat up my friend ( long ago before cell phones)..she was badly hurt and they locked her in a room over night to keep her from going to authorities..she escaped out the window.( true story)...I can see them doing something like this..

say Raf and A went there to meet up with Rudy to pick up some coke or weed or whatever..when MK comes home and sees her room rifled thru...missing money, clothes..etc..and really the missing clothes and money are taken by Amanda ( the make up too) ..but Amanda didn't want Rafe to know she borrowed her cute clothes without permission and took M's rent money to pay Rudy for the drugs..they have drugs on them and MK is threatening to call police.( they will all definitely spend the night in jail when the money and drugs are discovered) ..they lock her in her bedroom trying to fix the situation and Rudy does the rape and murder while they are there and too afraid to
do anything about it.

then he leaves and Raf and A are left there to deal..

this is just one of a few ideas I have about this ...mOO

added..I just can't get a round the emails Amanda wrote that night, the knife, the story about MK having dinner with Rafe..( another weird detail) and pricking her with that knife..carrying the mop across town..none of it makes any sense...

I know this..I don't believe them.
 
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something very bad happened that night.

the whole of everything around the kitchen knives defies any kind of logic...everyone knows you should not carry a knife to protect yourself unless you know how to use it.

There's no evidence or witness testimony that anyone carried around a kitchen knife. This was hypothesized by the prosecution, back when they believed a kitchen knife from Raffaele's kitchen was the murder weapon. We now know that it wasn't, thanks to the independent experts appointed by the Appeal court.

I guess that A was intensely jealous of MK and some kind of psychosis arose from this, perhaps they were all at the house when MK came home..perhaps MK was asking about her money and there were only the three people there who could have taken it...Rudy, Raf or Amanda. Perhaps she threatened to call the police on them...and this is when the attempts to restrain MK went out of control..I think AK and RS were high on something. I think MK was held down by the guys who were trying to keep her from calling police when AK produced this knife and murdered her in a fit of rage at being accused of stealing her money and maybe even stealing clothes and makeup in front of her new boyfriend and thus making her out to be a low class drug addict. I really believe she would tell on the guys for holding MK down as accessories to her murder...when really they were just trying to keep her from the phone.

OK, so there are a lot of problems with this scenario.

1. No one has ever testified about Amanda being jealous of Meredith. No intercepted mail or phone call from Amanda, no testimony from Meredith's friends or flatmates. At worst, Meredith's friends said that Meredith gossiped about some things Amanda did that she thought was weird, but a. that's not jealousy and b. about Meredith's feelings, not Amanda's. In fact all of those who knew them both said there was no tension and that their relationship was good. The idea that Amanda was jealous is - again - hypothesized by the prosecution/investigators due to the fact that they could never find a proper motive for Amanda.

2. Amanda and Raffaele can't have been in the flat when Meredith came home. We know Meredith arrived at a few minutes past 21:00 (CCTV from the parking garage) while Raffaele's computer began playing a cartoon at 21:26 at his apartment. Rudy on the other hand admits to being around the flat prior to 21:00. He says he was waiting for Meredith as they had made a date, but actually he was breaking into the flat, not thinking Meredith or anyone would come and surprise him.

3. Neither Amanda nor Raffaele had any reason to steal money. Raffaele came from money, which is why he had his own apartment, a car and maidservice. Amanda had over 4000 dollars in her account. Rudy on the other hand had been unemployed for months, and had problems making rent. He was caught in the middle of a break-in a week before the murder, and was connected to at least four other break-ins (including possessing stolen goods from one of them). In one of these break-ins, he smashed a second story window with a rock then scaled the wall, same as he did with Filomena's window at the flat. Amanda had met Rudy once (he was acquainted with the boys in the downstairs flat) and seen him a couple of times in passing, but they didn't know eachother. There are no phone records or mail evidence of contact between them, nor any witness testimonies that they were familiar. That they knew eachother - and that Amanda stole money - is - again - hypothesized by the prosecution/investigators since they still had no motive, and no other way of putting them all at the crime scene together.

I think she convinced Rudy and Raf it happened because she was hallucinating or something so they all covered it up together

I think she would do it again..all of the crazy details in this case are preposterous and as a whole make absolutely no sense..I am sure the clothes were all over because MK was looking for her missing articles.

in the old drug days of the seventies...this would be called a bad scene.

mOO

Clothes were strewn about only in Filomena's room (where Rudy broke in), not in Amanda's, Meredith's or Laura's rooms. And they weren't strewn as much as pulled from the closet and dumped right on the floor, indicating that the person going through it wasn't looking for clothes. So who or why? Well, Rudy claimed that Meredith had hidden money in her underwear drawer. A drawer full of clothes was found open in Laura's room. Combined with the clothes pulled from Filomena's closet (the only evidence of ransacking in that room), it's likely that Rudy assumed clothes drawers/closets were the likeliest places to look for the cash of which he was in desperate need.

another thought I had was that they were all there and in the midst of this situation they locked Meredith in her room away from her phone...they knew no-one was in the building..maybe they put her in there so they could think what to do...maybe during this time Rudy slipped in there and raped her and this is when the whole scene blew up.

But when is all of this supposed to have happened? Again, there was computer activity at Raffaele's at 21:26. At 21:58 the phones are out of Meredith's hands, since there are a couple of misdials on her British phone, and by 22:13 they are pinged close to the garden where they were found the next day. The evidence of Meredith's stomach contents as well as her still wearing her outer garments, indicate that she died shortly after returning home at 21:00. Rudy places her death at ca 21:20.

say Raf and A went there to meet up with Rudy to pick up some coke or weed or whatever..when MK comes home and sees her room rifled thru...missing money, clothes..etc..and really the missing clothes and money are taken by Amanda ( the make up too) ..but Amanda didn't want Rafe to know she borrowed her cute clothes without permission and took M's rent money to pay Rudy for the drugs..they have drugs on them and MK is threatening to call police.( they will all definitely spend the night in jail when the money and drugs are discovered) ..they lock her in her bedroom trying to fix the situation and Rudy does the rape and murder while they are there and too afraid to
do anything about it.

then he leaves and Raf and A are left there to deal..

this is just one of a few ideas I have about this ...mOO

Well, first there's no evidence or testimony that Rudy was a drug dealer. A burglar, yes, but not a drug dealer. Also Meredith's room wasn't ransacked (though her purse was rifled through, and Rudy's DNA was found on it). We've already established that neither Amanda nor Raffaele needed money, nor was there any indication that Meredith was alive when the door was locked. The time window is too narrow for this scenario to make any sense, and there's no evidence to back it up either. There's no evidence of a clean-up, there's zero material evidence of Amanda or Raffaele in Meredith's room.

added..I just can't get a round the emails Amanda wrote that night, the knife, the story about MK having dinner with Rafe..( another weird detail) and pricking her with that knife..carrying the mop across town..none of it makes any sense...

I know this..I don't believe them.

The dinner detail didn't come from Amanda, it was something Raffaele wrote. Remember, he didn't know that the lab had screwed up, he just heard that Meredith's DNA had been found on a knife he knew had never left his apartment. He only wrote this in his prison diary, he never gave a statement about this. It's just a railroaded guy trying to make sense of what the police is telling, and still under the delusion that they are honest and competent.

The mop isn't even weird. Raffaele had maidservice. He didn't have a mop at home, and the sink had spilled water on his floor, due to a long-time problem with the pipes. All of this was confirmed, and the mop was thoroughly tested. No blood, no bleach, nothing but water.
 
something very bad happened that night.

the whole of everything around the kitchen knives defies any kind of logic...everyone knows you should not carry a knife to protect yourself unless you know how to use it.

I guess that A was intensely jealous of MK and some kind of psychosis arose from this, perhaps they were all at the house when MK came home..perhaps MK was asking about her money and there were only the three people there who could have taken it...Rudy, Raf or Amanda. Perhaps she threatened to call the police on them...and this is when the attempts to restrain MK went out of control..I think AK and RS were high on something. I think MK was held down by the guys who were trying to keep her from calling police when AK produced this knife and murdered her in a fit of rage at being accused of stealing her money and maybe even stealing clothes and makeup in front of her new boyfriend and thus making her out to be a low class drug addict. I really believe she would tell on the guys for holding MK down as accessories to her murder...when really they were just trying to keep her from the phone.

I think she convinced Rudy and Raf it happened because she was hallucinating or something so they all covered it up together

I think she would do it again..all of the crazy details in this case are preposterous and as a whole make absolutely no sense..I am sure the clothes were all over because MK was looking for her missing articles.

in the old drug days of the seventies...this would be called a bad scene.

mOO

There's just too many details that don't have an innocent explanation.

Indications of multiple attackers, the faked break-in, footprints of several people in the hall and bathroom, mixed DNA of Knox and Meredith, the cleaning up, posing the body long after Rudy left, the murder weapon in Sollecito's possession with Knox's DNA on the handle and the victim's DNA on the blade...

The final verdict that Knox was in the house that night washing her hands of the victim's blood makes the most sense if she was one of the killers:

Another element against her [Amanda Knox] is the mixed traces, her and the victim’s one, in the ‘small bathroom’, an eloquent proof that anyway she had come into contact with the blood of the latter, which she tried to wash away from herself...


MOO
 
There's just too many details that don't have an innocent explanation.

Indications of multiple attackers, the faked break-in, footprints of several people in the hall and bathroom, mixed DNA of Knox and Meredith, the cleaning up, posing the body long after Rudy left, the murder weapon in Sollecito's possession with Knox's DNA on the handle and the victim's DNA on the blade...

First, there are no indications of multiple attackers. In the first trial seven experts testified and six of them said the evidence either supported a single killer or at least didn't necessitate multiple killers. Only one expert said otherwise. The room was small, 2,91x3,36m (pg 48), leaving little place for three people to commit a bloody murder with two of them not leaving a trace.

Second, the break-in wasn't faked. Rudy Guede had broken into at least one other place with a similar method - throw a rock through a second-story window and climb the wall. The glass spray and locations of the shards support this - there were shards lifted from the bottom of the frame and placed on the windowsill outside, something that could only be done deliberately, and with the likeliest purpose to make it easier and safer to reach inside and open the latch. While roommate Filomena's table hadn't been disturbed, her clothes had been dumped from her closet, and other roommate Laura's room had a clothes drawer open. Rudy would later claim that Meredith hid her rent money in her underwear drawer, and that Amanda had taken it, but we know that he went through Meredith's bags after she died.

Third, the footprints are of bare feet going between Amanda and Meredith's rooms and their shared bathroom. They were tested and shown not to be made from blood, so it's just proof that they lived together.

Fourth, the mixed DNA was found in the bathroom, which they both used. There is also video evidence of the forensic scientists wiping large areas with swabs, meaning it's far from certain that it was mixed to begin with.

Fifth, there was no cleaning up. With the exception of some half-hearted attempts to wipe up the pools of blood by Meredith's corpse with towels (which Rudy admitted to), there is no evidence of clean-up. Luminol showed no tell-tale streaks where a mop or a rag had been used.

Sixth, there was no post-mortem posing. Going by the blood stains Meredith was given her fatal wound while facing the closet in a low position, after which she collapsed on the floor. Drag marks and a handprint from her on the side of the closet indicate Rudy flipped her over and dragged her closer to the bed (a distance of only a handful of inches), before he began molesting her. We know that she was still alive as he stripped her (while she was on her back) due to aspirated blood drops from her neck wound having landed both on the cups of her bra and on the naked breasts underneath. Rudy didn't move her from that position, only tossed a duvet over her body.

Seventh, that knife wasn't the murder weapon. Of all the knife wounds on Meredith, it was incapable of doing all of them except for the last one. And that last one is only possible, not certain. Certainly a pocket knife, of the kind Rudy had carried, could have done all the wounds (which makes sense too), and there is an imprint on the sheet of a bloody knife that matches this perfectly. The DNA from Amanda was on the handle, but the DNA from Meredith on the blade was likely contamination, since the amount was so small it was almost non-existant and the lab wasn't capable of testing that without eliminating the risk of contamination. The forensic scientists were sharply criticized by independent experts appointed by the court.

The final verdict that Knox was in the house that night washing her hands of the victim's blood makes the most sense if she was one of the killers:

Another element against her [Amanda Knox] is the mixed traces, her and the victim’s one, in the ‘small bathroom’, an eloquent proof that anyway she had come into contact with the blood of the latter, which she tried to wash away from herself...


MOO

The job of the final verdict was to see if the last appeal trial had been properly made, not to retry the facts. And in this case, the Supreme Court found that the appeal court had ignored exculpatory evidence. Regarding the mixed traces, the Supreme Court says that the appeal court was allowed to use them as evidence she had come into contact with the blood, but that the complete lack of material evidence in the murder room meant that it was impossible for her to have participated in the murder, and so any contact would have had to occurred at a later time and in another part of the house.

Any further and more meaningful value would be, in fact, resisted by the fact - which is decisive - that no trace leading to her was found at the scene of the crime or on the victim’s body, so that - if all the above is accepted - her contact with the victim’s blood would have occurred after the crime and in another part of the house.
 
First, there are no indications of multiple attackers. In the first trial seven experts testified and six of them said the evidence either supported a single killer or at least didn't necessitate multiple killers. Only one expert said otherwise. The room was small, 2,91x3,36m (pg 48), leaving little place for three people to commit a bloody murder with two of them not leaving a trace.

For me it's not a matter of the number of people testifying, it's the quality of the testimony. That Meredith was restrained while being threatened and cut with two knives persuaded the court and persuades me there were multiple attackers.

Second, the break-in wasn't faked. Rudy Guede had broken into at least one other place with a similar method - throw a rock through a second-story window and climb the wall. The glass spray and locations of the shards support this - there were shards lifted from the bottom of the frame and placed on the windowsill outside, something that could only be done deliberately, and with the likeliest purpose to make it easier and safer to reach inside and open the latch. While roommate Filomena's table hadn't been disturbed, her clothes had been dumped from her closet, and other roommate Laura's room had a clothes drawer open. Rudy would later claim that Meredith hid her rent money in her underwear drawer, and that Amanda had taken it, but we know that he went through Meredith's bags after she died.

AFAICT all the law enforcement personnel who viewed the 'burglary' scene concluded that it was staged. I agree with them.

Third, the footprints are of bare feet going between Amanda and Meredith's rooms and their shared bathroom. They were tested and shown not to be made from blood, so it's just proof that they lived together.

There were also footprints consistent with Sollecito revealed by the luminol. As we know, luminol is much more sensitive than other methods of detecting traces of blood, so it's no surprise the less sensitive method failed.

Fourth, the mixed DNA was found in the bathroom, which they both used. There is also video evidence of the forensic scientists wiping large areas with swabs, meaning it's far from certain that it was mixed to begin with.

Mixed DNA of Knox and Kercher was discovered in the room where the burglary was staged. Curiously, no evidence Guede was ever in that room.

Fifth, there was no cleaning up. With the exception of some half-hearted attempts to wipe up the pools of blood by Meredith's corpse with towels (which Rudy admitted to), there is no evidence of clean-up. Luminol showed no tell-tale streaks where a mop or a rag had been used.

Sollecito's half a bloody footprint on the bath mat should be sufficient to show that there was some kind of clean up. I don't think he flew there, must have walked. Where did the prints between go? The simplest explanation is that there was a clean up.

Sixth, there was no post-mortem posing. Going by the blood stains Meredith was given her fatal wound while facing the closet in a low position, after which she collapsed on the floor. Drag marks and a handprint from her on the side of the closet indicate Rudy flipped her over and dragged her closer to the bed (a distance of only a handful of inches), before he began molesting her. We know that she was still alive as he stripped her (while she was on her back) due to aspirated blood drops from her neck wound having landed both on the cups of her bra and on the naked breasts underneath. Rudy didn't move her from that position, only tossed a duvet over her body.

Sollecito left his DNA on Meredith's bra when stripping her after the murder.

Seventh, that knife wasn't the murder weapon. Of all the knife wounds on Meredith, it was incapable of doing all of them except for the last one. And that last one is only possible, not certain. Certainly a pocket knife, of the kind Rudy had carried, could have done all the wounds (which makes sense too), and there is an imprint on the sheet of a bloody knife that matches this perfectly. The DNA from Amanda was on the handle, but the DNA from Meredith on the blade was likely contamination, since the amount was so small it was almost non-existant and the lab wasn't capable of testing that without eliminating the risk of contamination. The forensic scientists were sharply criticized by independent experts appointed by the court.

That the DNA of the stabbing victim on Sollecito's knife got there by stabbing is the most likely scenario, especially since Sollecito made up a story about how he 'innocently' stabbed Meredith on another occasion. If this knife which connects murderer and victim isn't capable of producing all the knife wounds, it stands to reason more than one knife was involved in the attack - which indicates multiple attackers.

The job of the final verdict was to see if the last appeal trial had been properly made, not to retry the facts. And in this case, the Supreme Court found that the appeal court had ignored exculpatory evidence. Regarding the mixed traces, the Supreme Court says that the appeal court was allowed to use them as evidence she had come into contact with the blood, but that the complete lack of material evidence in the murder room meant that it was impossible for her to have participated in the murder, and so any contact would have had to occurred at a later time and in another part of the house.

For my part, it is difficult for me to imagine any scenario where Knox was present in the house at the time of the murder, washed the victim's blood off herself, and lied about being there, and then accused an innocent man of the killing without her participation in the crime.

MOO
 
For me it's not a matter of the number of people testifying, it's the quality of the testimony. That Meredith was restrained while being threatened and cut with two knives persuaded the court and persuades me there were multiple attackers.

The initial judge wrote down his reasoning and the poor quality thereof is what shifted a lot of the opinion in Amanda and Raffaele's favor. Meredith's martial arts lessons would not have prevented a knife-wielding man from suprising and/or over-powered her.

AFAICT all the law enforcement personnel who viewed the 'burglary' scene concluded that it was staged. I agree with them.

Yes, the tunnel vision was evident from an early stage. However, when the only person proven to have been in the murder room with the victim has at least one burglary with the same method under his belt, it just shows that they should have branched out earlier. How does staging explain the glass shards removed from the lower part of the frame and placed on the window sill? How does staging explain the glass spray? How does staging explain the rock tearing through the paper bag? The only way to explain all the evidence in a staging scenario is to have the "stager" actually commit the burglary.

There were also footprints consistent with Sollecito revealed by the luminol. As we know, luminol is much more sensitive than other methods of detecting traces of blood, so it's no surprise the less sensitive method failed.

Well, the defense proved that the "compatible" print was three cm shorter than Sollecito's foot, so what we're left with are naked footprints, not made in blood, between the bathroom and the bedrooms of two girls. And TMB (the test used to rule out false positives) is also very sensitive, and would certainly not fail to detect when the luminescence from the luminol was as strong as it was. The prosecution themselves admitted that negative TMB tests mean there wasn't blood there.

Mixed DNA of Knox and Kercher was discovered in the room where the burglary was staged. Curiously, no evidence Guede was ever in that room.

Which was, again, not blood (and found over a month after the murder, in an unsecured crime scene). It was identified as a "blob", but as far as I know no image of this blob has ever been shown. It's also known that the majority of testing was done in the murder room.

Sollecito's half a bloody footprint on the bath mat should be sufficient to show that there was some kind of clean up. I don't think he flew there, must have walked. Where did the prints between go? The simplest explanation is that there was a clean up.

No, the simplest explanation is that Guede removed his shoe (and sock) to wash off the leg of his pants in the bidet of the small bathroom (which he admitted to entering), stepped on the bathmat with bloody water having run down to the sole of his foot, wiped his foot (with the towels he admitted to taking from the bathroom), put his sock and shoe back on and walked back into the murder room. Absence of evidence is not evidence of clean-up. The fact remains that the luminol failed to show any traces of cleaning.

In this article you can see an image of what a luminol-revealed clean-up looks like. There was nothing like it in the bathroom or hallway.

Sollecito left his DNA on Meredith's bra when stripping her after the murder.

The problem with that (apart from the bra clasp having been forgotten by the police in an unsecured crime scene for more than a month, with visible proof of the place having been turned upside down) is that Sollecito is one of multiple (non-Guede) males whose DNA was found on the bra clasp in similar miniscule amounts, none of which the police bothered to identify. That means contamination.

That the DNA of the stabbing victim on Sollecito's knife got there by stabbing is the most likely scenario, especially since Sollecito made up a story about how he 'innocently' stabbed Meredith on another occasion. If this knife which connects murderer and victim isn't capable of producing all the knife wounds, it stands to reason more than one knife was involved in the attack - which indicates multiple attackers.

The most likely scenario is contamination. The lab wasn't equipped to handle LCN DNA, precisely because of the risk of contamination, yet they went ahead anyway. That's not even getting into the logic. The knife was a kitchen knife that would have had to be moved from Raffaele's apartment to the murder room - why? And why keep it in the drawer? It wasn't picked for testing because it matched the wounds - the police who took it didn't know what the murder weapon looked like, and took the kitchen knife because it looked cleaner than the others. Not to mention the blade having starch on it, showing that the only thing it had cut was vegetables or bread. A pocket knife not only could make the final wound, bruising around the edges indicates it was shoved in to hilt, which would be impossible for the kitchen knife.

For my part, it is difficult for me to imagine any scenario where Knox was present in the house at the time of the murder, washed the victim's blood off herself, and lied about being there, and then accused an innocent man of the killing without her participation in the crime.

MOO

Sure, which is easiest explained by her not being in the house at the time of the murder, not having washed the victim's blood off herself, only said she had been there after hours of being threatened and bullied by police, who wanted her to accuse an innocent man of the killing.
 
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there is just too much nonsense about who was where and when.. and running across town with mops in the middle of the night and Sollecito even saying he stabbed at MK with that knife..I mean it's ridiculous, anyone with eyes can see two rich white kids getting off Scott free.

I will never believe Amanda...they were probably all tripping on mushrooms or some other drugs, which explains all the oddball behavior and the need to leave places and comeback and do murders then stand around outside..and do cartwheels at the police station.

you can't convince me otherwise...they made it out by the skin of their teeth, because of a few mistakes.

mOO
 
there is just too much nonsense about who was where and when.. and running across town with mops in the middle of the night and Sollecito even saying he stabbed at MK with that knife..I mean it's ridiculous, anyone with eyes can see two rich white kids getting off Scott free.

I will never believe Amanda...they were probably all tripping on mushrooms or some other drugs, which explains all the oddball behavior and the need to leave places and comeback and do murders then stand around outside..and do cartwheels at the police station.

you can't convince me otherwise...they made it out by the skin of their teeth, because of a few mistakes.

mOO
:) Running around with mops.

What's glaring is all the cleaned up traces but not that handprint of Guede.
 
there is just too much nonsense about who was where and when.. and running across town with mops in the middle of the night and Sollecito even saying he stabbed at MK with that knife..I mean it's ridiculous, anyone with eyes can see two rich white kids getting off Scott free.

I will never believe Amanda...they were probably all tripping on mushrooms or some other drugs, which explains all the oddball behavior and the need to leave places and comeback and do murders then stand around outside..and do cartwheels at the police station.

you can't convince me otherwise...they made it out by the skin of their teeth, because of a few mistakes.

mOO

"Anyone with eyes" may see what they want, but anyone who has read the casefiles knows the truth.

No one was running around with mops in the middle of the night. Amanda took a mop from her flat because Raffaele didn't have one in his home (the "rich white kid" had maidservice) and the two returned it when they went back to check if there had actually been a break-in. This was between 11 and 12 in the morning, so not in the middle of the night.

Raffaele never said he "stabbed" at Meredith. It's a passage from his prison diary where he speculates he may have pricked her during a cooking session because he had no idea how her DNA could have gotten on the blade otherwise.

And as we now know, that's because the knife in question wasn't the murder weapon. It didn't fit the wounds, it didn't fit the bloody outline on the sheet, the idea that it was transported from Raffaele's apartment to be used in a murder and then returned is ludicrous, it was taken as evidence on a whim by a police officer who didn't know the shape of the murder weapon, it was tested negative for blood and only got a positive hit for DNA when the incompetent forensic scientist did a LCN test without the lab being qualified and with no safeguards against contamination.

Amanda and Raffaele were tested for drugs. The tests were negative.

She didn't do cartwheels in the police station.

They "stood around outside" (along with all the others) because the police had ordered them to. Like with most things, doing what the police said gained them little.

:) Running around with mops.

What's glaring is all the cleaned up traces but not that handprint of Guede.

And yet there are no traces of a clean-up. That was the whole point of the luminol tests: to find those traces. And nothing was found.

It's 2022, the case has been settled for seven years. Essentially all the information, the interviews, the phone logs, the forensic data, everything is available online. I do think it's rather irresponsible to spread misinformation about living people who have been publicly exonerated.
 

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