FL - Sara Morales, 35, shot dead by motorcyclist she hit with car, Orange City, 20 Nov 2021

[JayWill]

That's exactly what I'm saying. I would have stayed locked inside until the police arrived or until they broke in instead of going outside with a gun and confronting them. We are not sure they would have broken in that's an assumption.

In MY mind, it would have been less of an escalation to stay in the house until the police arrived. Even if they broke in.

And she was on the phone with the police when she was being chased. I wonder how long after the shooting did the police arrived.

And it is an assumption of yours that they were not going to break in. They were right on her property.
Even if they broke in? Really? Do only men have the right to defend their property and women just have to stay inside? They escalated by chasing her and being on her property.

 

[Snoods]

If I was a victim of a traffic road rage incident, the last thing I would do is follow the enraged person and confront them at their home, in close proximity. I would call 911 and try to get a pic of their tag and note a description of the car and driver, (especially traveling with my buddies that should be easily doable).
The alleged road rage victim didn’t call 911 until after he shot her, then his buddy called.

It seems they wanted to show her who’s boss. Honestly I don’t believe she really hit him. Violent road rage with nary a scratch on man nor vehicle? Didn’t even nudge him a little bit off his bike?

Let’s not forget she had her mother and child in her house. She probably thought the weapon was going to be a deterrent and scare the men off. She was literally telling them she was intimidated by them while on her 911 call and got blown away.

 

[MizKim]

Please do not remain at an accident scene if anything is dangerous. Law enforcement advises women not to do this.

Already stated I would leave if I felt threatened or in danger.

You would be making a big mistake to remain at the scene with bikers - they would find out your name, your address, and your phone number. Do you want bikers to know your name, your address, and your phone number? And once they have your address and phone number, they could find out when your adult son or brother or boyfriend or husband is not home.

All that information would be available on a police report or by getting my license plate number.

So how does waiting on a public street/place with lots of people around change this issue? Do you want the motorcycle gang to learn your address and phone number and name? I don't understand how a public place changes any of this.

I'm saying I wouldn't leave IF I didn't feel threatened.

I don't understand any of this. We don't even know if Sara really pointed a gun, since one hand was holding the phone to her ear.

We don't. Did she perhaps have on bluetooth earbuds or headset?

And if Sara was a man defending her 11-year-old daughter and older mother, she'd be a hero. So what if Sara went outside to confront the men?

Not judging Sara at all. She had every right to go outside and confront those men and defend her property and unfortunately there were bad consequences for her.

The men were trying to get inside the house anyway. And maybe she just snapped or was panicked.

Maybe she did snap or panic. I can see that in the heat of the moment as I said logic leaves and emotions and adrenaline take over.

This has nothing to do with a traffic accident. In my opinion, the three male bikers tracked her down with the intention to rape or kill her. They had plenty of opportunity to leave the premises but did not leave.

1. They should not have followed her.
2. They should have left when they had the opportunity to leave.
3. But the facts are they didn't and there were fatal consequences.

 

[PremeditatedCrime]

Already stated I would leave if I felt threatened or in danger.



All that information would be available on a police report or by getting my license plate number.



I'm saying I wouldn't leave IF I didn't feel threatened.


We don't. Did she perhaps have on bluetooth earbuds or headset?

Not judging Sara at all. She had every right to go outside and confront those men and defend her property and unfortunately there were bad consequences for her.


Maybe she did snap or panic. I can see that in the heat of the moment as I said logic leaves and emotions and adrenaline take over.



1. They should not have followed her.
2. They should have left when they had the opportunity to leave.
3. But the facts are they didn't and there were fatal consequences.

One of the bikers stated that Sara was holding the landline (it was cordless) to her ear with one hand.

 

[MizKim]

One of the bikers stated that Sara was holding the landline (it was cordless) to her ear with one hand.

Okay I missed that.

 

[mjp1228]

I don't get this. Three obviously armed men are chasing her and you seem critical that when she gets home, she gets her gun. Why isn't she allowed the gun to protect herself in her own home? Those men could have got her car number and called police too.

Where did you see that the men were “obviously armed?” I missed that. Do you have a link I can read?

 

[mjp1228]

Well, my theory or opinion is that law enforcement is afraid of motorcycle gangs, and that's why law enforcement is siding with the three men. But that's just my opinion.

It's also my opinion that the three men had the intention of raping or killing Sara. In other words, this was premeditated. In my opinion, they followed her home with the intention of raping or killing her. One source says that the 911 Dispatcher advised the three men to leave, but they did not leave the premises. Why not just leave?

What? Don’t you think if their intention was to rape or murder her that she would never made it in the door?

 

[Bishop Black]

I find it very bizarre that the MSM has sided with the bikers. And it's been my opinion that is because law enforcement is driving the narrative; and law enforcement fears motorcycle gangs. But the prevalence of "Karen mass hysteria" (Sara was both white and Latina) is probably also a factor. Who is driving the narrative that Sara deserved it for being a "Karen"?

Yeah, anything's possible, but if they had "sided with Sara", some would be whining that they only sided with her because "she was a woman" and immediately assumed that the men were "violent offenders". So pick your poison.

While I admire the man for coming forward, I have to ask why people have sympathy for older women but not for attractive young women like Sara. Had Sara been unattractive, or very attractive but older, I think people would be more sympathetic to Sara. We would sympathize with Sara's mother, but not with Sara!

I don't keep count, but if anything I see the opposite more often. I'm sure that if they "sided" with her, some would whine that they only sided with her against the bikers because she's a "hot chick".

<modsnip: quoted posts were removed; off topic>

 

[Sillybilly]

This thread is closed for review and cleanup.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Tone down the attitudes, the bickering and disrespectful, inflammatory comments and personalizing toward other members. If members can’t discuss the known facts of this case respectfully without being antagonistic or flat-out rude to other members, they will lose posting privileges either temporarily or permanently.

When stating information as fact, a link must be provided to substantiate. If a member asks for a link, please provide MSM or LE links to support; none of this “google is your friend” type of response. Just find a link and post it.

Websleuths is fact based and relies on both MSM and LE rather than social media rumors or hearsay. Stick with MSM who at least are responsible for vetting their sources, and LE who are at least accountable for the job they do. As WS is primarily pro LE, generalized bashing of LE is not allowed.

Stay on topic. The thread is dedicated specifically to discussion of Sara’s case. Race and Rittenhouse have no place in this conversation.

Thread is open again.

 

[katydid23]

I don't get this. Three obviously armed men are chasing her and you seem critical that when she gets home, she gets her gun. Why isn't she allowed the gun to protect herself in her own home? Those men could have got her car number and called police too.

I am not critical of her getting her gun. I am critical of her going back outside with it. The 3 men were out on the sidewalk, and not on her property.

If they had come up to her door and began aggressively shouting or knocking, then she could point her gun towards them and if any of them tried to break a window or kick in the door, ONCE THEY HAVE BREACHED THE HOME--then she is allowed to begin shooting in self defense.

But by going outside of the safety of her home and brandishing a weapon, she becomes the aggressor. JMO

 

[everybodhi]

I am not critical of her getting her gun. I am critical of her going back outside with it. The 3 men were out on the sidewalk, and not on her property.

If they had come up to her door and began aggressively shouting or knocking, then she could point her gun towards them and if any of them tried to break a window or kick in the door, ONCE THEY HAVE BREACHED THE HOME--then she is allowed to begin shooting in self defense.

But by going outside of the safety of her home and brandishing a weapon, she becomes the aggressor. JMO

reposting.

This link has a video with both 911 calls, it also clearly shows a motorcycle on her porch. The shooter was very close as you can clearly hear him speaking after the shots in her 911 call. It appears another male caller made a 911 call after the gunfire, not before.
Either one of the bikers drove onto her porch or someone from her house also has a bike.
Lots of unanswered questions here, I don’t think a librarian just intentionally hit a biker in a group of bikers out of the blue, there must be more to this story.

View attachment 325043

Pregnant Librarian Drove into Motorcyclist on Purpose and Pulled Gun on Him When He Followed Her Home, Cops Said. The Man Allegedly Shot and Killed Her

 

[everybodhi]

reposting.
b&ubm
Florida's 'stand your ground' law explained: Q&A

Additionally, “stand your ground” only applies if the person who uses force in self defense is in a place where they’re legally allowed to be.
A person who is threatened while trespassing or breaking into someone’s home can’t claim self-defense under “stand your ground.”

“Duty to retreat” is the expectation that a person who’s being threatened with bodily harm will make a reasonable attempt to escape from the situation before resorting to using deadly force. In almost than half of U.S. states, it’s only legal to use deadly force in self-defense if you’ve attempted other avenues of escape or de-escalation unless you're in your own home, according to Findlaw.com.

This is not the case in Florida. A person who is obeying the law and in a place where he or she is permitted to be has no obligation to try to get away.

 

[Cryptic]

How do we know that Sara pointed a gun? We don't know how heavy the handgun was. A small woman (which Sara was) generally requires two hands to point a gun.

Nearly all women can raise and point a handgun with one hand. Many women, and a some men, however, may find that it is far easier to fire it accurately with two hands.

But.... a certain number of gun owners never fire the weapons they own.

Besides, if Sara pointed the gun, the guys should have said: "Hands up, Mam. Can I have twenty seconds to leave the premises."

Or, they could have concluded that Sara was actually going to fire the weapon immediately.

Being a woman and living in a middle class area does not mean that the individual cannot commit murder.

 

[Knitty]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

There is no indication at this time that these men were part of a criminal biker gang. They could have been like the group from my neighborhood, all professional men and women, who ride on the weekends. Or like the group that will be at the American Legion near me this weekend, eating BBQ and collecting Toys for Tots. We don't know. Yet.

 

[moonriverfarm]

Hasn't it been posted that there was no damage to the motorcycle Sara "hit"?

 

[Cryptic]

I don’t think a librarian just intentionally hit a biker in a group of bikers out of the blue, there must be more to this story.

The biker whom Sara pointed the weapon at was not wearing anything remotely resembling 2% / outlaw biker patches, vests leather and other I guess "regalia".

Rather, as @Knitty mentioned, he could have been part of an American Legion etc. charity social riding group. Or, he could have been a man who just likes riding motorcycles with his friends.

Likewise, there is nothing mystical that prevents librarians, teachers, or other government employees from being aggressive by personality or in actions.

 

[Snoods]

According to Perez (Sara Morales’ boyfriend), Flaherty saw her daughter with her hands in the air telling Derr and the others to leave when she was shot.

I don’t know if this is possible? SB was on the phone with 911 when she was shot. She couldn’t have been holding a phone to her ear with her hands in the air? Was phone on speaker? Granted this wasn’t a direct quote from her mother so maybe some confusion on her boyfriend’s part.

Pregnant Librarian Shot Dead After Pulling Gun on Biker Who Followed Her Home in Road Rage Incident: Police

 

[everybodhi]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

There is no indication at this time that these men were part of a criminal biker gang. They could have been like the group from my neighborhood, all professional men and women, who ride on the weekends. Or like the group that will be at the American Legion near me this weekend, eating BBQ and collecting Toys for Tots. We don't know. Yet.

The biker whom Sara pointed the weapon at was not wearing anything remotely resembling 2% / outlaw biker patches, vests leather and other I guess "regalia".

Rather, as @Knitty mentioned, he could have been part of an American Legion etc. charity social riding group. Or, he could have been a man who just likes riding motorcycles with his friends.

Likewise, there is nothing mystical that prevents librarians, teachers, or other government employees from being aggressive by personality or in actions.

We cannot discuss anything about his criminal background unless he is charged in this case, even if there was a history of violence targeting vulnerable people or even if there were prior incidents of road rage involving him, no matter how relevant it may seem to be we can’t talk about it here.
So there’s that.
If you can find information about him participating in charity riding clubs or the American Legion, I think you can post, correct me if I’m wrong about that.
We can discuss that SM had no prior criminal charges before her death.
In the online memorials she is remembered by many as a kind and loving person, they closed the libraries at one point after her death in her honor.

 

[everybodhi]

I don’t know if this is possible? SB was on the phone with 911 when she was shot. She couldn’t have been holding a phone to her ear with her hands in the air? Was phone on speaker? Granted this wasn’t a direct quote from her mother so maybe some confusion on her boyfriend’s part.

Pregnant Librarian Shot Dead After Pulling Gun on Biker Who Followed Her Home in Road Rage Incident: Police

Listening to her 911 call during the shooting, I think she was on speaker phone due to the clarity of the voice of the man speaking in obvious close proximity, the only way he could be that clear otherwise would be if he grabbed her phone from her hand and spoke into the mic immediately after the shooting, which seems highly unlikely.