GUILTY OH - Pike Co, 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #66

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I agree whatever they have told the state matches to all the evidence found, they would not have taken DP off for them all if what JW first confessed to was not totally corroborated by what their investigations and evidence showed, I think JW confession is as close to what exactly happened that night, as the state dropped the DP against all 4 of them and this is a case of 8 murders from JW confession alone, everything he said tallied with what they knew, and then AW had to have had to have told a similar version (hers may vary is some ways as she was not their).

I agree with you, but JW/ AW/lawyers also had all of the evidence/discovery (other than JW proffer in AW case) the state had on them before they confessed. They knew what the state could prove and could not prove. They could have gone by that to tweak their confessions in some ways. I do think for the most part the confessions are probably accurate. The state said in the hearing JW confirmed things they knew and they found out some things from him they did not know. I believe they thought G4 was a principal offender up until JW's confession. The state obviously feels confident in their confessions and takes them as the truth.

G4 Motion 75 states that the thrust of motion 73 was based on a statement that JW made to the state. I believe that to be their reason for requesting him to be at the next hearing for G4 although I am not sure how it will help them very much if JW says G4 was involved. It seems that would come out at that hearing if JW is testifying.
 
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I agree with you, but JW/ AW/lawyers also had all of the evidence/discovery (other than JW proffer in AW case) the state had on them before they confessed. They knew what the state could prove and could not prove. They could have gone by that to tweak their confessions in some ways. I do think for the most part the confessions are probably accurate. The state said in the hearing JW confirmed things they knew and they found out some things from him they did not know. I believe they thought G4 was a principal offender up until JW's confession. The state obviously feels confident in their confessions and takes them as the truth.

G4 Motion 75 states that the thrust of motion 73 was based on a statement that JW made to the state. I believe that to be their reason for requesting him to be at the next hearing for G4 although I am not sure how it will help them very much if JW says G4 was involved. It seems that would come out at that hearing if JW is testifying.
That whole JW testifying at a hearing strikes me as really weird. IMO, him testifying to GW4's guilt or innocence is what the trial is for. I can't imagine the judge allowing it, but I certainly could be wrong. Hopefully there is a deal in the works for GW4. If so, then the issue of JW testifying at a hearing before trial is a moot point. JMO
 
That whole JW testifying at a hearing strikes me as really weird. IMO, him testifying to GW4's guilt or innocence is what the trial is for. I can't imagine the judge allowing it, but I certainly could be wrong. Hopefully there is a deal in the works for GW4. If so, then the issue of JW testifying at a hearing before trial is a moot point. JMO

Yes he will not be testifying if there is a deal. Suspects are allowed to call people to testify at their hearings. I would think the state will fight it if it gets to that point, not sure if that will be successful. While JW testimony on one hand may help them in their minds, it seems on the other hand some of JW testimony would not help them.
 
In looking at GW4's docket in CourtView, there's something I'm curious about.

  • DEFENDANT'S MOTION NO. 62, entitled "MOTION TO REVOKE ANDREW D. WILSON'S APPOINTMENT AS SPECIAL PROSECUTING ATTORNEY," filed on January 22, 2021
  • October 25, 2021...On agreement of the parties, DEFENDANT'S MOTION NO. 62, entitled "MOTION TO REVOKE ANDREW D. WILSON'S APPOINTMENT AS SPECIAL PROSECUTING ATTORNEY," filed on January 22, 2021, has been submitted to the Court for decision upon the memoranda previously filed by the parties and without any further evidence or oral argument
  • 11/17/2021DECISION AND JOURNAL ENTRY REGARDING DEFENDANT'S MOTION NO 62 -- IT IS ORDERED THAT DEFENDANT'S MOTION NO. 62 IS OVERRULED AND DENIED
  • 11/19/2021SUBPOENA ISSUED PCSO FOR TRANSPORT OF INMATE EDWARD JACOB WAGNER TO HEARING ON DECEMBER 22, 2021 AT 9:00AM
https://pikecountycpcourt.org/eserv...zg*3SUoQqQ1C8wukM8by7Mj9biUhZuuzTLT7so6yub8dQ

Is it a coincidence that GW4's attorneys suddenly issued the subpoena for JW to testify on 12/22/21 just two days after the judge denied their motion to have Andrew Wilson removed from the prosecution team? What is the reason GW4's team didn't want Andrew Wilson on the prosecution team?

Just curious.
 
In looking at GW4's docket in CourtView, there's something I'm curious about.

  • DEFENDANT'S MOTION NO. 62, entitled "MOTION TO REVOKE ANDREW D. WILSON'S APPOINTMENT AS SPECIAL PROSECUTING ATTORNEY," filed on January 22, 2021
  • October 25, 2021...On agreement of the parties, DEFENDANT'S MOTION NO. 62, entitled "MOTION TO REVOKE ANDREW D. WILSON'S APPOINTMENT AS SPECIAL PROSECUTING ATTORNEY," filed on January 22, 2021, has been submitted to the Court for decision upon the memoranda previously filed by the parties and without any further evidence or oral argument
  • 11/17/2021DECISION AND JOURNAL ENTRY REGARDING DEFENDANT'S MOTION NO 62 -- IT IS ORDERED THAT DEFENDANT'S MOTION NO. 62 IS OVERRULED AND DENIED
  • 11/19/2021SUBPOENA ISSUED PCSO FOR TRANSPORT OF INMATE EDWARD JACOB WAGNER TO HEARING ON DECEMBER 22, 2021 AT 9:00AM
https://pikecountycpcourt.org/eserv...zg*3SUoQqQ1C8wukM8by7Mj9biUhZuuzTLT7so6yub8dQ

Is it a coincidence that GW4's attorneys suddenly issued the subpoena for JW to testify on 12/22/21 just two days after the judge denied their motion to have Andrew Wilson removed from the prosecution team? What is the reason GW4's team didn't want Andrew Wilson on the prosecution team?

Just curious.
All the defense teams tried to get him removed months ago.They said it was a conflict due to who he reports to and it could have some backlash against them or somehthing like that. It was denied for those teams quite some time ago. They just got around to that motion on G4 recently. It does not seem to me that it has anything to do with the motion being filed.
 
All the defense teams tried to get him removed months ago.They said it was a conflict due to who he reports to and it could have some backlash against them or somehthing like that. It was denied for those teams quite some time ago. They just got around to that motion on G4 recently. It does not seem to me that it has anything to do with the motion being filed.
Thanks!
 
@Covert Operative - Thank you so much for this - I greatly appreciate it!

I would also like to say thanks for all your contributions and posts that you bring to the thread. You are willing to agree to disagree when necessary, but yet still considerate and respectful of other posters opinions, thoughts and ideas. :)

Thank you so much for those words. You are kind. Glad I could find that video finally.
 
I believe the gun shot wound to the torso fractured his spine. Doesn't say healed fracture, meaning it was currently fractured at time of autopsy.

Bullets fracture and paralyze people's spines frequently from torso shots.

Gunshot Injuries to the Spine

Spinal cord injury from gun shot wounds may be due to direct injury (transection/laceration/contusion).

Indirect injury from a concussive/blast effect.

Vascular injury resulting in spinal cord ischemia (a restriction in blood supply to any tissue).
I respectfully disagree about "healed" fracture. I have had fractures of 2 different lumbar vertebrae in the remote past and in more recent radiographic studies on different occasions, it will say in radiologist's interpretations, that there are the fractures noted on previous films of L1 and L3, etc. and does not ever mention "healed" fractures, but rather does note the fractures that were there previously, and of course, any new findings/abnormalities that he may see in his interpretation /view of the radiographic studies.

JMO and what has happened in my personal experiences with fractured vertebrae.

ETA - and you can still be active with fractures of the spine, but may have activity limitations based on what level of the spine the fracture is at and the severity of the fracture/injury and several other things may be considered as well such as age, other pre-existing and/or current medical conditions, how the injury occurred, etc.
 
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IMO, G4 isn't getting out of the murder charges or any charges for that matter. He was clearly present (or nearby) when the murders took place, he had the option to not be involved... yet he chose to participate in some way. So IMO it shouldn't matter if he pulled a trigger or not... he did NOTHING to try to stop any of this.

Wusses don't bode well in prison, and IMO there will be 4 of them ripe for attacks hopefully soon.
 
I respectfully disagree about "healed" fracture. I have had fractures of 2 different lumbar vertebrae in the remote past and in more recent radiographic studies on different occasions, it will say in radiologist's interpretations, that there are the fractures noted on previous films of L1 and L3, etc. and does not ever mention "healed" fractures, but rather does note the fractures that were there previously, and of course, any new findings/abnormalities that he may see in his interpretation /view of the radiographic studies.

JMO and what has happened in my personal experiences with fractured vertebrae.

ETA - and you can still be active with fractures of the spine, but may have activity limitations based on what level of the spine the fracture is at and the severity of the fracture/injury and several other things may be considered as well such as age, other pre-existing and/or current medical conditions, how the injury occurred, etc.

Just chiming in to say that CC doesn't think he had a "healed" fracture, she in fact has always thought it was caused by a shot to his torso. Sorry if I misinterpreted your post. :)
 
Hello Folks, I've been following along in the media but haven't posted a lot over the last few months. I was reading some articles, and doing some pondering lately. Although I have known about Jake's announcement, (obviously planned on the anniversary of the murders, imo), to testify against his brother and parents, to get DP off the table for not only him, as well as the other three family members. He stated that his brother, father, and mother, were active participants, but he himself murdered five people and shot a sixth. He is still charged with the murders of all eight. If Jake's deal comes to fruition, he will die in prison, if he does not follow through, he will face the DP.

The last time that GW3 was in court "the judge denied a request from his defense attorneys to dismiss the death penalty before he goes on trial. The prosecution has said his youngest son, Edward “Jake” Wagner must testify against Billy first and that his plea agreement says the state gets to decide if he held up his end of the plea deal." So as of now GW3 still has DP on the table.

AW has decided to follow suit, it seems, with her youngest, JW. Atty. Junk said, Wagner pleaded to conspiracy to commit aggravated murder, several counts of aggravated burglary, tampering with evidence, and other charges as part of a plea deal. The remaining eight counts of aggravated murder were dismissed. "The prosecution is recommending Wagner receive 30 years with no possibility of the death penalty (which, if she lives that long in prison, will make her close to 80 upon release). As part of the plea, she has agreed to testify against the other defendants. It will be up to the prosecution to determine if she fulfills her plea agreement. Junk says the victim’s family was aware of the plea and agreed to the terms."

GW3 has not had a trial date set. George Wagner IV, will go on trial April 4, 2022 His is the only dna that is not found at the scenes (Note S was in the care of the Ws the night of the murders). It does not get him off the hook, b/c he played an active role in the planning, obstruction, tampering, etc..., even if he may not have been there at the scenes, it would not matter (he may have thought otherwise though). He might possibly have stayed at home with his son and neice, or was the driver that night. S was old enough to talk, as was G3's own son.

Rita Newcomb, was accused of helping her family members evade arrest and lying to a grand jury. She was initially charged with obstruction of justice, perjury and forgery but wound up pleading guilty only to obstruction of official business, a misdemeanor. The other charges were dismissed.

Billy Wagner’s mother, Fredericka Wagner, also was charged but those were eventually dropped.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, with all that said, no one is yet free from the DP yet, there are conditions. JW and AW have to testify against the other parties, and each other most likely. AW against both sons and her husband. JW, against his mother, father, and only sibling. JW realized that he would very likely get the DP if he fought the case. His lawyers laid it out to him. His best bet was to make the plea and die in prison. In turning against his family, if he testifies to suit the prosecution, the DP comes off of his family's cases too. It's a no brainer. AW followed suit. If she testifies, she can save herself, her husband and her eldest, who don't seem to be getting it through their heads theat they are sunk. GW3's and GW4's own lawyers could be advising them to plea, but they don't have to take their lawyer's advice. Just jotting down my thoughts and, in addition, making a placeholder, as I'm not on often these days.

Happy holidays!
_________________________________________________


Pike County Massacre: Wagner family patriarch returns to court

Jake Wagner pleads guilty in Pike County massacre

Pike County Massacre: Angela Wagner pleads guilty
 
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I believe the gun shot wound to the torso fractured his spine. Doesn't say healed fracture, meaning it was currently fractured at time of autopsy.

Bullets fracture and paralyze people's spines frequently from torso shots.

Gunshot Injuries to the Spine

Spinal cord injury from gun shot wounds may be due to direct injury (transection/laceration/contusion).

Indirect injury from a concussive/blast effect.

Vascular injury resulting in spinal cord ischemia (a restriction in blood supply to any tissue).
BBM - @Caylee Advocate

The above post by @Cool Cats is what my post was in reference to. BBM is the 1st sentence that says "Doesn't say healed fracture, meaning it was currently fractured at time of autopsy."

And my point in my post was, just because it doesn't say "healed" fracture in the report does not mean that it was currently fractured at time of autopsy In other words, just because the autopsy report didn't say "healed fracture" does not mean that this fracture was a current fracture versus possibly an old injury.

Hopefully, this clears up any confusion.
 
Just chiming in to say that CC doesn't think he had a "healed" fracture, she in fact has always thought it was caused by a shot to his torso. Sorry if I misinterpreted your post. :)
@Caylee Advocate - please see my post above to explain my reply to Cool Cats post. Hopefully it explains what I was trying to say and if not, just disregard it then. LOL :)
 
rsd1200 said:
snipped by me....

Billy Wagner’s mother, Fredericka Wagner, also was charged but those were eventually dropped.

Actually per my notes:
6/26/19 Charges were dismissed without prejudice.

You probably know this - but I'll post anyway. :)

A case dismissed with prejudice is over and done with, once and for all, and can't be brought back to court. case dismissed without prejudice means the opposite. It's not dismissed forever. Involuntary dismissals happen when the judge decides the case can't go forward because of a legal reason.

So - she CAN be charged if the prosecutor wants to.
 
Any news on the "private hearing" from yesterday? Probably not since it was "private"....

TIA if anyone finds anything.
animated-smileys-christmas-033.gif
 
I respectfully disagree about "healed" fracture. I have had fractures of 2 different lumbar vertebrae in the remote past and in more recent radiographic studies on different occasions, it will say in radiologist's interpretations, that there are the fractures noted on previous films of L1 and L3, etc. and does not ever mention "healed" fractures, but rather does note the fractures that were there previously, and of course, any new findings/abnormalities that he may see in his interpretation /view of the radiographic studies.

JMO and what has happened in my personal experiences with fractured vertebrae.

ETA - and you can still be active with fractures of the spine, but may have activity limitations based on what level of the spine the fracture is at and the severity of the fracture/injury and several other things may be considered as well such as age, other pre-existing and/or current medical conditions, how the injury occurred, etc.

Well he was shot in the chest and stomach so I believe it caused his spine fracture. Otherwise there is no need to even mention it and if mentioned it probably would have been worded as a previous fracture of the spine.

Noted is a previous fracture to the spine vs noted is a spinal fracture.

There is a spinal fracture present tense + shot to chest + shot to abdomen + described as a man doing hard physical labor = gunshot wound(s) to torso caused spinal fracture.

Just my take on it only, not stated as fact. It's OK to see it differently.

"The autopsy states he was shot nine times in the head, chest, stomach and forearm, possibly a defensive wound."
New information released in unsolved Rhoden family massacre
 
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Hello Folks, I've been following along in the media but haven't posted a lot over the last few months. I was reading some articles, and doing some pondering lately. Although I have known about Jake's announcement, (obviously planned on the anniversary of the murders, imo), to testify against his brother and parents, to get DP off the table for not only him, as well as the other three family members. He stated that his brother, father, and mother, were active participants, but he himself murdered five people and shot a sixth. He is still charged with the murders of all eight. If Jake's deal comes to fruition, he will die in prison, if he does not follow through, he will face the DP.

The last time that GW3 was in court "the judge denied a request from his defense attorneys to dismiss the death penalty before he goes on trial. The prosecution has said his youngest son, Edward “Jake” Wagner must testify against Billy first and that his plea agreement says the state gets to decide if he held up his end of the plea deal." So as of now GW3 still has DP on the table.

AW has decided to follow suit, it seems, with her youngest, JW. Atty. Junk said, Wagner pleaded to conspiracy to commit aggravated murder, several counts of aggravated burglary, tampering with evidence, and other charges as part of a plea deal. The remaining eight counts of aggravated murder were dismissed. "The prosecution is recommending Wagner receive 30 years with no possibility of the death penalty (which, if she lives that long in prison, will make her close to 80 upon release). As part of the plea, she has agreed to testify against the other defendants. It will be up to the prosecution to determine if she fulfills her plea agreement. Junk says the victim’s family was aware of the plea and agreed to the terms."

GW3 has not had a trial date set. George Wagner IV, will go on trial April 4, 2022 His is the only dna that is not found at the scenes (Note S was in the care of the Ws the night of the murders). It does not get him off the hook, b/c he played an active role in the planning, obstruction, tampering, etc..., even if he may not have been there at the scenes, it would not matter (he may have thought otherwise though). He might possibly have stayed at home with his son and neice, or was the driver that night. S was old enough to talk, as was G3's own son.

Rita Newcomb, was accused of helping her family members evade arrest and lying to a grand jury. She was initially charged with obstruction of justice, perjury and forgery but wound up pleading guilty only to obstruction of official business, a misdemeanor. The other charges were dismissed.

Billy Wagner’s mother, Fredericka Wagner, also was charged but those were eventually dropped.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, with all that said, no one is yet free from the DP yet, there are conditions. JW and AW have to testify against the other parties, and each other most likely. AW against both sons and her husband. JW, against his mother, father, and only sibling. JW realized that he would very likely get the DP if he fought the case. His lawyers laid it out to him. His best bet was to make the plea and die in prison. In turning against his family, if he testifies to suit the prosecution, the DP comes off of his family's cases too. It's a no brainer. AW followed suit. If she testifies, she can save herself, her husband and her eldest, who don't seem to be getting it through their heads theat they are sunk. GW3's and GW4's own lawyers could be advising them to plea, but they don't have to take their lawyer's advice. Just jotting down my thoughts and, in addition, making a placeholder, as I'm not on often these days.

Happy holidays!
_________________________________________________


Pike County Massacre: Wagner family patriarch returns to court

Jake Wagner pleads guilty in Pike County massacre

Pike County Massacre: Angela Wagner pleads guilty

Thanks for that recap. You brought up an important point. Do you remember if it was said in a hearing or where that G4 is the only DNA that was not found at the scenes? They mentioned in court that his was not found but did not mention the others DNA that I can remember. AC implied in the statement of facts that AW was not at the scenes. If her DNA was at the scenes then JW and AW lied and it would mean AC accepted that lie knowing AW was there because they had her DNA there. That would definitely be a contradiction and an important detail.
 
Has the judge granted for Jake to attend Court on 22 December? Could he say no. I don't get what good it would be having Jake there as he can't be questioned by G4 defence team, can he?


Sorry if the above sounds stupid but I've still not got to grips with law over there. Here in UK it wouldn't be permitted until trial.
 
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