MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, shooting at Oxford High School, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents*

[Gardenista]

Sheriff on CNN Don Lemon show saying that this is the first time in 21 yrs that charges were announced at a press conference without notifying his office beforehand so they could pick up the accused and get them in custody. His office learned of the charges from the media

Not surprised. You could tell she thought she was having a moment of glory, but when the question came about having them in custody, she started stammering. This entire situation has been a cluster from the start.

 

[airportwoman]

Teens see school shootings in the news trending and it gives them ideas. The Columbine Effect.
You'll see a few in the next two weeks:
Marjory Stoneman Douglas Student Arrested For Allegedly Threatening School Shooting

Does Media Coverage Inspire Copy Cat Mass Shootings?

That MJS story absolutely blew my mind! Maybe he wasn't living here in 2018, but that is not an excuse.

This must be the 2020s equivalent of bomb threats. Those were fairly common in the 1970s, a decade when there was a shooting at my junior high (1972) and even though I went there just a few years later, I never knew about it until people who were there told the story on that school's Facebook account! In short, a boy who was being bullied brought a rifle to school and fired a few bullets into the wall, and was tackled by a teacher before he could shoot any more. Several kids had minor injuries from jumping out a first-floor window; the teacher was given a leave of absence for the rest of the year, and I heard that he died recently at the age of 80.

 

[bestill]

You still need a passport to get into Canada, and you bet the nearest border guards are on high alert.

I personally hope they are found soon and alive, and take nobody else out with them.

Of course they are now but prior to the BOLO they had a good chance of entering if they had a covid test, vaccine card and passport.

 

[epiphany]

Not surprised. You could tell she thought she was having a moment of glory, but when the question came about having them in custody, she started stammering. This entire situation has been a cluster from the start.

Well, Lemon's interviewing her now (after the sheriff)

 

[epiphany]

I got the impression during the sheriff's interview, possibly incorrectly, that the sheriff's office did not expect the charges to be of the magnitude they were

 

[Marysmith]

Of course they are now but prior to the BOLO they had a good chance of entering if they had a covid test, vacine card and passport.

True. IMO though I am guessing they don’t have all of those. It’s a PCR test that you need so they’d have to plan it a bit. I bet they’re still in a northern state…

 

[dotr]

rbbm.
Where are Ethan Crumbley’s parents? Were red flags ignored before Oxford High School shooting?
''Oakland County Undersheriff Michael McCabe said if the parents have not turned themselves in yet -- then that means they are wanted by police.

Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald is very upset that the couple hasn’t been arraigned yet. She said it was not a hard decision to make to charge the parents.

“Dad, you know, upon hearing there was an active shooter -- not going to the school like every other parent and wondering if their kid was OK. He drove to his house and looked to see if the gun was there. Which tells me he absolutely had reason to believe that his son might harm somebody,” McDonald said.''

 

[airportwoman]

I wonder if they refused to take him home because his drawing and his words gave them reason to be afraid of him…that he would kill them. Kip Kinkel’s “voices” told him to kill his parents, so he did, even though he loved them. Then he went and shot up the school.

And if he hadn't killed his parents, they too would have been charged, because they supplied the guns.

 

[JJ Ray]

BBM. This year has been especially tough on school staff. My principal still receives threats on a regular basis from parents angry over mask mandates, etc. Our board meetings are filled with ranting parents upset about masks, curriculum, etc. The last 2 years have been tough on staff and students. Our administration is constantly reminding us about giving grace and understanding to the students who are almost having to relearn how to be in school. There is no winning. I'm sure the administration will regret their decision forever. There were supposedly no prior discipline reports for EC. The district may not have known he had access to a gun. I'm sure they did not realize/think he posed an immediate threat or they would have handled things differently. They may have thought they were supporting him in encouraging parents to seek help while not "punishing" him by kicking him out. In hindsight it's easy to see/say what should have been done.

Totally agree with this breakdown of school admin actions/non-actions.

 

[Snoopster]

I'm not sure what crimes you are talking about? I don't know about the terms of the court appearance, so are they fugitives, has there been a warrant for their arrest?

Do we have proof, or only gossip, (social media) if this was a gift to their son. I had originally heard it was the father's gun, and the son only said again on social media that it was a gift to him. And if so, in my rural area, young people do receive guns as gifts, it doesn't mean that they are immediately responsible, but the parents in my area take their children hunting or gun practice. It's not an immediate inheritant skill the children have but is learned. Since the gun was only bought recently, maybe dad was going to teach skills of how to handle the gun to his son?

As far as mom's text, don't do it, I truly feel that was a gut reaction after the school meeting that morning, possibly she saw something in his attitude that seemed defeated. Don't do it could have meant, don't hurt yourself?

I am truly at a lost why you would bring into the conversation about the fathers child support for his older children? If you follow any kind of law, or in the court, that is inadmissible because it isn't even relevant to the case. This is why, if I ever did anything wrong to be tried in court, I would only choose to be judged by a judge, not a jury. I am honestly astounded by the response tonight. I pray our justice system prevails and crimes will be tried, if guilty, punished, but no one will be swept into incarceration by public opinion alone. Let the facts decide. MOO

regarding the point I bolded, the mother's social media is her own words. She, herself, said it was a gift for her son. Do you want to believe the parents or not? You were blaming the media before. And now you are discounting the mother's own words since she posted them on 'social media'.

While I may not agree with buying young people guns, I certainly recognize that that is an accepted practice elsewhere. But I'm going to guess that if your child had emotional problems, you wouldn't arm him/her with a gun. That would be a recipe for disaster. There is no way that this guy's emotional/mental problems just popped up over a few days. The parents would have seen things. And yet they discounted what the school was telling them.

I'm sure you are a great parent. It's clear that you care. But these people do not seem to be responsible parents.

 

[Angleterre]

His eyes...

That was my first thought too….

 

[jenn83]

Wow, Sheriff says they were never notified of the charges, and prosecutor says she was in contact with the detectives the entire time

 

[Doghairrules]

Here real estate career didn't last very long:
View attachment 325210

That’s interesting because the heavy article said she worked for a realtor that immediately took her off their website when the shootings happened.

 

[Arkay]

I'm not sure what crimes you are talking about? I don't know about the terms of the court appearance, so are they fugitives, has there been a warrant for their arrest?

Do we have proof, or only gossip, (social media) if this was a gift to their son. I had originally heard it was the father's gun, and the son only said again on social media that it was a gift to him. And if so, in my rural area, young people do receive guns as gifts, it doesn't mean that they are immediately responsible, but the parents in my area take their children hunting or gun practice. It's not an immediate inheritant skill the children have but is learned. Since the gun was only bought recently, maybe dad was going to teach skills of how to handle the gun to his son?

As far as mom's text, don't do it, I truly feel that was a gut reaction after the school meeting that morning, possibly she saw something in his attitude that seemed defeated. Don't do it could have meant, don't hurt yourself?

I am truly at a lost why you would bring into the conversation about the fathers child support for his older children? If you follow any kind of law, or in the court, that is inadmissible because it isn't even relevant to the case. This is why, if I ever did anything wrong to be tried in court, I would only choose to be judged by a judge, not a jury. I am honestly astounded by the response tonight. I pray our justice system prevails and crimes will be tried, if guilty, punished, but no one will be swept into incarceration by public opinion alone. Let the facts decide. MOO

I think I was pretty clear about their crimes.

A mandatory court appearance to face criminal charges is a mandatory court appearance to face criminal charges. Missing it makes someone a fugitive from the law. A criminal.

We have proof that the gun was bought specifically for 15- year old Ethan because it is the mother who put that on her own social media. It is not some outside gossip. We also have Ethan on his own social media holding this gun in his own hands and praising it.

I don’t live in a rural area where fathers and sons bond over guns. I’ve lived in NYC all my 64 years. Yet even in your scenario of a rural father and son, the father is present in your version and supervising the son. What happened here in REALITY is the son was given the gun to have independently of his father or any supervision. That is not legal. So it’s criminal.

I did say that the father’s lack of paying child support was not germane to this case, but I alluded to it because it shows a pattern of disregard for the law.

The mother’s text of “don’t do it” may be interpreted in several ways, yes. In context though with her earlier text to Ethan, in which she laughed about him looking up ammo and told him to learn how “not to get caught,” I interpret it as her realizing he had the gun and was going to hurt others. Even if as you say, she worried he’d hurt himself, IMO that certainly shows she knew he had the gun with him, doesn’t it? And that’s illegal since he was underage.

I’m astonished, as well, but not for the same reason as you.

 

[whitelilac]

The parents' behavior all round, the manner in which they dismissed the red flags, ignored the school's entreaty to get the kid in counseling, coddling their son, gifting him a flipping gun, did they not for one minute consider the potential harm an immature (and obviously unstable) 15 year old could do to others, even to himself? "Lol, don't get caught" they told him after he's caught looking up ammunition in the classroom. smh.

Four students died, shot in school, youngsters who should have had a future, others who are severely injured and who may never be the same again, grieving traumatized families etc.
Have they expressed one word of sympathy to these families? Is it all about them? Entitlement and self preservation?
I'm speechless.

 

[Doghairrules]

Wow, Sheriff says they were never notified of the charges, and prosecutor says she was in contact with the detectives the entire time

I find the sheriff less than credible in this instance. The prosecutor said from her first public statements that charges against the parents were likely coming. If I knew, how did the sheriff not know?

 

[CrimeAway]

I'm assuming if they had crossed the closest border into Canada that their tags would have been read?

I'm sure that Canadian border patrol will have been alerted to the situation by FBI, Homeland Security, or similar US government authorities. JMO.

 

[JJ Ray]

My questions are when you are presented with this:

On Nov. 30, 2021, the morning of the shooting the next day, Ethan Crumbley’s teacher came upon a note on Ethan’s desk which alarmed her to the point that she took a picture of it on her cellphone. The note contained the following: a drawing of a semiautomatic handgun, pointing at the words: “The thoughts won’t stop. Help me.” In another section of the note was a drawing of a bullet, with the following words above that bullet: “Blood everywhere.” Between the drawing of the gun and the bullet is a drawing of a person who appears to have been shot twice and bleeding. Below that figure is a drawing of a laughing emoji. Further down the drawing are the words, “My life is useless.” And to the right of that are the words, “The world is dead.”

why aren’t you asking the parents the hard questions, are there guns in the home, does he have access to the gun is there a possibility he has one at school, do a search. I hope they did ask these questions of the parents, if the parents lied, there should be more charges. If they did not ask the parents these questions I consider that a failure under the circumstances of having this disturbing drawing. Whether they viewed the drawing as possibly referring to suicide or a threat to others I don’t understand sending him back to the classroom because the parents failed to take him home. I understand it is a very difficult atmosphere these past 2 years but this drawing goes beyond routine discipline situations. MOO

My speculation only:
And when the parents push back and say "oh he's a good kid we have no problems at home. Just do your damn job." And they don't offer that they just bought him a gun. And there is no other evidence except the day before and the day of?

It's like progressive discipline at work. You jump to fast to termination and you get sued for wrongful termination. Do we know that the parents didn't threaten legal action over the edict that he get counseling within 48 hours as a form of defamation? We don't. Let's see if more doesn't come out about that conversation. Then we can parse blame.

 

[MassGuy]

I find the sheriff less than credible in this instance. The prosecutor said from her first public statements that charges against the parents were likely coming. If I knew, how did the sheriff not know?

Even if the sheriff did know though, the idea of holding a press conference to announce charges before you know for a fact the suspects are in custody, just seems like a massive error.

I can't think of any good reason why you would do something like that.

Why rush?

 

[JJ Ray]

sorry but these parents are idiots, IMO- the shooter in CT killed his mother (Sandy Hook, Adam Lanza) - why did they feel safe? And who tells your child "I'm not mad at you; you need to learn not to get caught." That is the icing on the cake for me, IMO.

Well to be fair, he was JUST SEARCHING FOR AMMO ON HIS PHONE! that he needed not to get caught for. Geez, what a mom!