MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* #2

[Kristin Esq.]

This is happening today:

Detroit artist Andrzej Sikora will be interviewed by the Oakland County Sheriff's Office. He is linked to the commercial space where detectives say Jennifer and James Crumbley were hiding. Sheriff says they are investigating possible obstruction of justice.

"He maintains his innocence throughout this process and is fully cooperating with law enforcement to assist in their investigation" -lawyer for Sikora told WXYZ.

https://twitter.com/BrianEntin/status/1467653301902659591

 

[Elley Mae]

Kris Brown, president of the gun control group Brady United, said that Michigan, unlike nearly 30 other states, did not have what was known as a child-access prevention law requiring adults to keep any guns in their home out of the reach of children.

States like California and New York set tougher safety standards for gun owners while more gun-friendly states in the Southeast impose penalties only if a child actually obtains or fires a gun.

“Michigan doesn’t have a strong law or a weak law,” Ms. Brown said. “It has no law on this.”

Behind the Charges Faced by the Parents of the Michigan Shooting Suspect

 

[Elley Mae]

Is it possible they could get reduced bail or get out?

Eta with no law on this what could they be held on?

 

[steeltowngirl]

Is it possible they could get reduced bail or get out?

Eta with no law on this what could they be held on?

A couple of legal experts talk about the challenges the prosecution will face in the case against the parents.

Eric Ruben, a professor at Southern Methodist University's Dedman School of Law, said whether prosecutors succeed depends on the facts and on their approach. He said a case focusing on what the Crumbleys did - like buying the gun despite knowing it posed a high risk - is likely stronger than one homing in on what they failed to do.

Lawrence Dubin, a professor of law at University of Detroit Mercy, said that if the parents knew that their son had a dangerous state of mind but gave him easy access to the gun anyway, it could support the manslaughter charges.

Manslaughter charges against Michigan shooter's parents break new legal ground

 

[Kristin Esq.]

School officials in Michigan had legal grounds to search shooting suspect Ethan Crumbley's backpack and locker, Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald told CNN on Monday. She did not rule out seeking charges against school staff members in the case.

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1467856367683784704

 

[x_files]

Something "in the air" made some students decide not to go to school that day -- dunno what, of course, but something made them suspicious enuff to stay home...

Teens talk. The whisper network, where teachers may not be privy to online gossip and chat.

 

[MimosaMornings]

Isn't the father a diabetic and on meds for that?

Depends if type 1 or 2.
The trump letter referenced a stroke and broken back for him.
JMO

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Teens talk. The whisper network, where teachers may not be privy to online gossip and chat.

Watched an analysis of Ethan from youtube by a man that studies school shootings, it was posted on here a few days ago. He said, with a few exceptions, the kids always know, the shooters always talk. He went on to say that this makes it difficult for the shooter to back out, change course. The other kids already know and in the shooter’s mind, they don’t want to be made fun of, thought of as a coward for not following thru. He emphasized that a good anonymous system is needed that allows people to report these rumors without repercussions.

 

[MoeInVA]

I just wanted to lift up a point that some may not have noticed. The student who very early on told media that Ethan had been bullied is also one of the students who told media he had stayed home that day due to feeling unsafe. This student, TB, is a senior at the 1,600 student High School (whereas Ethan was a sophomore). TB reportedly asked his mom if he could stay home after texting with his younger cousins in the morning.

"Kids just, like they’re just mad at each other at this school,” she said.

Bryant said he texted several younger cousins in the morning and they said they didn’t want to go to school, and he got a bad feeling. He asked his mom if he could do his assignments online.

Bryant said he had heard vague threats “for a long time now” about plans for a shooting at the school.

MOO: Based on interviews, it seems like senior TB did not have any direct knowledge of bullying and was not his friend, but he did know who EC was in passing. He thought he seemed like a normal, average kid. It seems likely to me that whatever impression TB or other students (such as his younger cousins) had that EC was bullied may have came from what EC himself may have put out there online re: trouble he was having. Add his posts brandishing a weapon, and it is easy to see how they would be feeling uneasy.

This does not fall on the other students AT ALL. But of course I do wish they or their parents had done more to ring alarm bells about their concerns that morning. Especially those who may have seen EC's posts directly. (IMO, TB spoke out, but I think there is a very decent chance he did not follow EC's posts and only heard about them from others).

I think both of these theories below have a lot of merit based on what we know so far. JMO

A "what if" scenario -

What if EC was indeed being bullied? What if his parents encouraged him to defend himself, fight back? The timeline of events was so tight - only five days from when JRC bought the gun to the day JLC took EC to the gun range to the day of the shooting.

Newly "empowered", what if EC let it be known at school he had a brand new gun, either through whispers or perhaps even showing it off to a select few? He did, indeed, post on social media about his "new beauty". Word gets around like lightning these days. Maybe that was the catalyst for the rumors of trouble coming, a shooting coming - rumors so strong that some students stayed home that day.

Considering what we already know about his parents, I believe this theory is not beyond the realm of possibility.

Pure speculation, nothing more. JMO

Teens talk. The whisper network, where teachers may not be privy to online gossip and chat.

 

[happyday]

I just wanted to lift up a point that some may not have noticed. The student who very early on told media that Ethan had been bullied is also one of the students who told media he had stayed home that day due to feeling unsafe. This student, TB, is a senior at the 1,600 student High School (whereas Ethan was a sophomore). TB reportedly asked his mom if he could stay home after texting with his younger cousins in the morning.

"Kids just, like they’re just mad at each other at this school,” she said.

Bryant said he texted several younger cousins in the morning and they said they didn’t want to go to school, and he got a bad feeling. He asked his mom if he could do his assignments online.

Bryant said he had heard vague threats “for a long time now” about plans for a shooting at the school.

MOO: Based on interviews, it seems like senior TB did not have any direct knowledge of bullying and was not his friend, but he did know who EC was in passing. He thought he seemed like a normal, average kid. It seems likely to me that whatever impression TB or other students (such as his younger cousins) had that EC was bullied may have came from what EC himself may have put out there online re: trouble he was having. Add his posts brandishing a weapon, and it is easy to see how they would be feeling uneasy.

This does not fall on the other students AT ALL. But of course I do wish they or their parents had done more to ring alarm bells about their concerns that morning. Especially those who may have seen EC's posts directly. (IMO, TB spoke out, but I think there is a very decent chance he did not follow EC's posts and only heard about them from others).

I think both of these theories below have a lot of merit based on what we know so far. JMO

Man—the kids’ anger in this school and EC’s parents’ anger (indicated by her letter to Trump) really reflects our country at the moment. IMO So divisive and angry. It’s really sad.

I agree we don’t know he was actually bullied. It wouldn’t surprise me, but sometimes kids aren’t directly bullied, but they just feel like they don’t fit in. Sometimes for good reason b/c high school is hard and kids can be mean. It seems to me there was a general angry vibe both at his school and his home.

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

This is happening today:

Detroit artist Andrzej Sikora will be interviewed by the Oakland County Sheriff's Office. He is linked to the commercial space where detectives say Jennifer and James Crumbley were hiding. Sheriff says they are investigating possible obstruction of justice.

"He maintains his innocence throughout this process and is fully cooperating with law enforcement to assist in their investigation" -lawyer for Sikora told WXYZ.

https://twitter.com/BrianEntin/status/1467653301902659591

I'm wondering if they had the $4000 on them when they were arrested, and if not, is a certain AS "holding" it for them for "safe keeping." Moo.

 

[Only4Justice]

Watched an analysis of Ethan from youtube by a man that studies school shootings, it was posted on here a few days ago. He said, with a few exceptions, the kids always know, the shooters always talk. He went on to say that this makes it difficult for the shooter to back out, change course. The other kids already know and in the shooter’s mind, they don’t want to be made fun of, thought of as a coward for not following thru. He emphasized that a good anonymous system is needed that allows people to report these rumors without repercussions.

great post. Can you share the YouTube video with me?

I am sickened by this crime. This needs to stop.

I am dumbfounded that the school didn’t have more security. I’ll leave it at that.

I am local and the kids were sick and nervous today at local schools. Hate they have to go through this.

all IMO

 

[MrsWatson]

Michigan school officials had legal grounds to search shooting suspect's backpack and locker but did not, prosecutor says - CNN

School officials in Michigan had legal grounds to search shooting suspect Ethan Crumbley's backpack and locker but did not do so, Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald told CNN on Monday.

McDonald also said there was evidence beyond what has already been revealed that she will use in prosecuting Crumbley and his parents in the shooting that left four students dead.

 

[x_files]

There is no indication Ethan threw a deer head off the school roof. Not related.

I didn't say it was Ethan who left the deer head I was responding that obtaining a one would NOT be difficult.

 

[MoeInVA]

A bit of good news! The 14 year old girl who was on a ventilator after the shooting was released from the hospital and is back home!
Click through to see her smiling with a fellow gun shot wound survivor (article implies it's her boyfriend who also survived quite a harrowing ordeal with a gunshot through his open mouth and out his cheek).
Phoebe Arthur, Oxford High shooting survivor, leaves hospital

As of Sunday only one victim remained hospitalized and she was a 17 year old girl in stable condition.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Man—the kids’ anger in this school and EC’s parents’ anger (indicated by her letter to Trump) really reflects our country at the moment. IMO So divisive and angry. It’s really sad.

I agree we don’t know he was actually bullied. It wouldn’t surprise me, but sometimes kids aren’t directly bullied, but they just feel like they don’t fit in. Sometimes for good reason b/c high school is hard and kids can be mean. It seems to me there was a general angry vibe both at his school and his home.

So true. Angry vibes, subtle bullying, it’s happening everywhere. Even among adults, it prevalent in the news and on social media. Right here on this very page.

 

[Iona]

Probably a court paid attorney. Indigent defense.

Correct, while these “ fine, specimens of something have hired, choreographed, and corralled an entire law firm for their defense… Everyone should just pause a few minutes and think about that…

 

[Amstorrs]

Not completely caught up on this thread but I’ve seen a lot of posts about the school knowing about threats and sending emails about possible threats to the school. And wanted to add my 2 cents.
I live in a city in Connecticut of about 70,000 people, and here we average less than 1 Murder a year. Most crime is domestic and/or drug related in my city, but honestly even that is minimal (the crime, not the drugs, we’re not immune to the opioid epidemic here) and it’s a really safe place to live overall.
That being said, I get an email like the one I’m attaching probably monthly, and upon further investigating of past, similar emails, the root cause can range from a kid getting a detention and making a comment (though not direct threat) like “I hope this school blows up I hate it here” to the opposite end of the spectrum, where there is a pointed threat to harm specific people/schools in a specific manner.
As a parent, it can be hard to decipher how serious to take each email. Im unsure how much “say” the school administration has in what procedure to follow if the police say they found the threat unsubstantiated. I’m curious is anyone knows more or has more insight into this.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

great post. Can you share the YouTube video with me?

I am sickened by this crime. This needs to stop.

I am dumbfounded that the school didn’t have more security. I’ll leave it at that.

I am local and the kids were sick and nervous today at local schools. Hate they have to go through this.

all IMO

It is beyond words horrifying that school is no longer a safe place. Here, is the link. Fyi, I wasn’t sure if he was saying he thought the schools knew about the journal and video or if because Ethan was at a place where he was being obsessive they should have recognized that behavior. I thought he made a great point that since he was searching ammunition it was logical to think that he had a gun and why didn’t they specifically make that connection, ask him about guns per the internet search and the drawing.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Watched an analysis of Ethan from youtube by a man that studies school shootings, it was posted on here a few days ago. He said, with a few exceptions, the kids always know, the shooters always talk. He went on to say that this makes it difficult for the shooter to back out, change course. The other kids already know and in the shooter’s mind, they don’t want to be made fun of, thought of as a coward for not following thru. He emphasized that a good anonymous system is needed that allows people to report these rumors without repercussions.

I was reading some of the Michigan school safety documents and there is a reporting ‘OK2SAY’ hotline. I wonder if it really is anonymous? Or if students even know about it. It’s probably like our “anonymous” surveys at work. People usually know the source of a report, since an incident and participants have to be described in order to report it at all!

Ok2Say - OK2Say
MSP - Office of School Safety