MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* #3

[dotr]

3 killed, 6 hurt in shooting at Michigan high school

Thread #1
Thread #2

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

No gun control discussion folks. It is not allowed at WS because it leads to bickering over the pros and cons, feelings get hurt, and nothing that is said at Websleuths will ever change anything in that regard.

Thanks for your understanding.

 

[Kristin Esq.]

Just so that we all have this, and the information doesn't get lost:

Ethan Crumbley
Probable Cause Conference: Dec. 13 @ 1:15pm
Preliminary Examination: Dec. 20 @ 1:15pm

James and Jennifer Crumbley
Probably Cause Conference: Dec. 14 @ 1:15pm
Preliminary Examination: Dec. 22 @ 9:45am.

 

[Facinatingtimes]

I get your point of view when you read this. But look at their website (I posted a screen shot earlier on this thread), these are not the typical kinds of cases they handle. I'd prefer a public defender that has the experience in manslaughter proceedings.

I doubt they are paying these attorneys though. I’m speculating they took this case against the parents pro bono for the challenge. Could the Crumbleys really afford to hire? No attorneys stepped up to represent EC pro bono so he gets the court appointed. Speculating by me…

 

[Kristin Esq.]

I doubt they are paying these attorneys though. I’m speculating they took this case against the parents pro bono for the challenge. Could the Crumbleys really afford to hire? No attorneys stepped up to represent EC pro bono so he gets the court appointed. Speculating by me…

My point is, that I don't know if these attorneys are properly equipped with handling this case, where EC's court appointed public defender may be better because they have the experience.

For example, I have mainly worked in the civil area, I would not volunteer to take on a murder case pro bono because I have no experience in it. These attorneys mainly handle sex crimes per their website.

 

[MoeInVA]

Has there been a civil suit filed against the Crumbleys yet?

From a selfishness perspective, I can see why they may think: They might as well go broke on their defense, because any assets will likely be lost in a civil suit anyway.

IMO: This case underscores why we should require liability insurance for gun owners like we do with car owners (and a higher level for those with minors in the home or other risk factors). At least then the insurers would have to pay a settlement to the victims and/or their families.

 

[Facinatingtimes]

My point is, that I don't know if these attorneys are properly equipped with handling this case, where EC's court appointed public defender may be better because they have the experience.

For example, I have mainly worked in the civil area, I would not volunteer to take on a murder case pro bono because I have no experience in it. These attorneys mainly handle sex crimes per their website.

Yes I totally agree with you. Either they are getting paid and that is their motivation to practice in an unfamiliar area, or they took it pro bono for other reasons (prestige, challenge, make a name for themselves, political, etc)? My point was just that I don’t think the parents necessarily are leaving the kid out to dry with a public defender. I think they don’t have money and their attorneys took the case pro bono, but no one did that for the kid. My speculation only!

 

[rob525]

I wonder how much the parents really knew. I almost get the notion that they knew what he was planning. I know it sounds crazy but they bought the gun, they were called to the school and notified that there was some concerns (obviously they knew he had access to a gun), they refused to remove him from the school yet did not even think to go home and locate said firearm? I may have missed something as I have not had time to read all of the thread. But the more the story moves along, the more I start to think about exactly how much involvement the parents may have had.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I definitely believe less government is better, that said, the school district is a government entity paid with our tax dollars, they are not a private business.

Not to mention, also, that the district's governing body, the Board of Education, are duly elected by their constituents.

 

[Facinatingtimes]

I wonder how much the parents really knew. I almost get the notion that they knew what he was planning. I know it sounds crazy but they bought the gun, they were called to the school and notified that there was some concerns (obviously they knew he had access to a gun), they refused to remove him from the school yet did not even think to go home and locate said firearm? I may have missed something as I have not had time to read all of the thread. But the more the story moves along, the more I start to think about exactly how much involvement the parents may have had.

I’m so interested in the any other evidence collected besides the texts and things we’ve already learned about. Maybe they knew even more than what we think…

 

[Jealoushe]

I wonder how much the parents really knew. I almost get the notion that they knew what he was planning. I know it sounds crazy but they bought the gun, they were called to the school and notified that there was some concerns (obviously they knew he had access to a gun), they refused to remove him from the school yet did not even think to go home and locate said firearm? I may have missed something as I have not had time to read all of the thread. But the more the story moves along, the more I start to think about exactly how much involvement the parents may have had.

Don't forget the " don't do it" text.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

I am baffled by the level of denial shown by the parents, but I do think we are looking at deep toxic denial on their part; they didn't think he would use the gun against others nor himself. (Although the risk was obvious.)
Also important - they've expressed no sympathy toward the victims. That may be on attorney advice, but it's ultimately their decision.
JMO.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Don't forget the " don't do it" text.

The text was 30 minutes after the shootings. When his parents heard of the shootings they went home, discovered the gun was missing and I am guessing also the journal's LE referred too. I don’t think the text is that much of a smoking gun, it could be Ethan wrote about suicide after the shootings. I do think what is a smoking gun is the fact that when they heard about the shootings they thought that Ethan could be the shooter, otherwise why would they go to their house to search for the gun. This is so telling to me, that they did have some type of prior knowledge that he was capable/wanting to do this. Repeating myself but how many parents would suspect their child is the shooter?

 

[rob525]

Don't forget the " don't do it" text.

My wonder is what are they telling him not to do? The shooting? Or as previous poster mentioned, did they discover him mentioning suicide in a journal and that was something that caused them to actually react? The fact they had previously been contacted about concerns that the school had and did not reply ( only to text their son "learn not to get caught"), refused to take him home from school etc. I remember a story about a parent either killing their daughters school rival or trying to arrange the killing a few years ago. Do we have some form of that situation here?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I was curious about when the Oxford Community Schools Board of Education would be meeting and noticed that a regularly scheduled meeting would have been held last night. That meeting was canceled, as was a special meeting on December 14 to recognize student arts, athletics, and academics. There is a special meeting scheduled for December 15 that might be the first opportunity that the public will have to express concerns about the shooting and how the district plans to move forward to keep students safe. Board of Education - Oxford Community School (oxfordschools.org)

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

December 6, A Message from School Board President - Oxford Community School (oxfordschools.org)

December 6, A Message from School Board President

Statement from Thomas E. Donnelly Jr., President of the Oxford Community Schools Board of Education

Dear Wildcat Community,

As your Board President, I wanted to take the opportunity to address the horrific shooting that occurred at our high school last week. The unspeakable tragedy we are just beginning to process and the immense trauma and grief we’re all experiencing has left us reeling and in shock. I take responsibility for not communicating sooner, but we too have been focused on the immediate crisis response and frankly we too are in shock and grieving as well.

In this moment of crisis, we must take time to begin to fully understand this tragedy and get answers to the understandable questions many of us have about what happened and why. As your Board President, I want you to know I support full transparency and having a third-party review of all the events that led up to and occurred on Nov. 30.

As a community, we are heartbroken. I want you to know there is professional help and healing opportunities available for students, staff and families. Professionally trained crisis response specialists are working with the school district to provide ongoing mental health support and there is more information about these services on the district’s website. I strongly encourage our community members to connect with these professionally trained crisis response specialists, therapists and counselors. Having the appropriate support will play a critical role as our students, families, staff and entire Wildcat community begin the healing process and will be a key element of gradually reopening schools while supporting our staff, students and community...

 

[dotr]

My wonder is what are they telling him not to do? The shooting? Or as previous poster mentioned, did they discover him mentioning suicide in a journal and that was something that caused them to actually react? The fact they had previously been contacted about concerns that the school had and did not reply ( only to text their son "learn not to get caught"), refused to take him home from school etc. I remember a story about a parent either killing their daughters school rival or trying to arrange the killing a few years ago. Do we have some form of that situation here?

Funny the possibility of a rival went through my mind wrt the "don't do it'' text.
Wondered if the step. b. and mother were in the area? speculation, imo.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Funny the possibility of a rival went through my mind wrt the "don't do it'' text.
Wondered if the step. b. and mother were in the area? speculation, imo.

Speaking of possible "rivals", has anyone found information about clubs, groups, organizations, sports, etc. in which Ethan participated? Who were his close friends? EC was a sophomore at Oxford High School and one would think that he was involved in some type of school-related activities.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Oxford High School will remain closed into January, principal says (detroitnews.com)

Oxford — Students at Oxford High School, the scene of a deadly shooting a week ago, will not resume formal classes until at least January, school officials said on Monday.

School officials have not announced plans for reopening the building where about 1,800 students attended classes, but that won’t happen before the scheduled holiday break ends on Jan. 2, Principal Steve Wolf wrote in a letter to parents and students.

"We truly miss you and can’t wait to see you soon. It has been extremely difficult working through this tragedy...We plan to create many opportunities to keep connected as we work through this traumatic event. Emotions will continue to shift and change as we begin to process all we have been through. This experience is more than anyone can be expected to handle on their own," Wolf said in the letter...

 

[jenn83]

Speaking of possible "rivals", has anyone found information about clubs, groups, organizations, sports, etc. in which Ethan participated? Who were his close friends? EC was a sophomore at Oxford High School and one would think that he was involved in some type of school-related activities.

Might not be. My high school child isn't interested in being involved in any clubs or school activities.