CANADA Canada - Susan Tice, 45, & Erin Gilmour, 22, Toronto, Aug & Dec 1983
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Gilgo Beach LISK Serial Killer, Rex Heuermann, charged with 4 murders, July 2023 #10
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SaintGertrude
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I think the case is very close to being solved. They may have to dig up a grave if the suspect is already deceased to match DNA.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/genetic-genealogy-toronto-killings-erin-gilmour-susan-tice-1.5950504
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/genetic-genealogy-toronto-killings-erin-gilmour-susan-tice-1.5950504
I agree it will be solved. What does anyone think? Will it be random or someone known to the women?
SaintGertrude
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I am wondering why the focus on a family tree and who the family could be. Possibly someone or a particular family already known to the police at a guess.
I took it to me that they have DNA similarity that only at this point can be related to great grandparents of the person responsible. So they are going the opposite direction of the usual genealogical investigation - and it is a big family I think they said were at the time they spoke twenty something possible suspect males - though I am sure they were quickly able to narrow that down. I have no idea how long this work takes these days does anyone? If those great grandparents had say 8 sons each and they had 8 sons it would be a lot of males. But your question if a good one what kind of DNA to they have? I would expect a full profile but I don't think we know that.
LE mentioned a very large family with members living in small towns across Canada, some of whom were living in or visiting Toronto at the time of the murders, iirc imo, speculation.
Lengthy article.
May 15 2022
by Peter Edwards rbbm.
www.thestar.com
''Both women were bound and stabbed repeatedly in their Toronto homes in late 1983.
“Both scenes represent a sadistic offender,” Michael Arntfield, a Western University criminologist and former police officer, said in an interview.''
''Gilmour was a single, aspiring clothing designer from an extremely wealthy family.
Her father, David Gilmour, was the business partner of tycoon Peter Munk, co-founder of the mining company, Barrick Gold.''
''Tice was a recently divorced social worker and mother of four teenage children.
Tice earned a nursing degree from McMaster University and a Master’s in social work from The University of Toronto.
They were similar in death if, not in life.''
“Both Erin and Susan were found in their beds and both suffered significant physical and sexual violence,” Smith said.
Both women lived alone.
Both Gilmour and Tice lived low-risk lifestyles.''
How did their killer connect with each of them?
Why did the killer seem to disappear after the murders?
There’s no indication that the two women knew each other.
“Where did Susan Tice and Erin Gilmour’s lives intersect?,” Arntfield asked. “They had dramatically different lifestyles.”
On the surface, Tice and Gilmour appeared quite different.
“There is no record of Susan and Erin having anything in common,” Smith said.
There was, however, one notable difference in the two murder scenes.
Gilmour’s body was covered by a comforter, while there was nothing to cover Tice’s body.''
Arntfield doubts the killer felt any particular guilt or closeness to Gilmour.
“This is more of a compulsion than any act of remorse,” Arntfield says.
So why wasn’t Tice covered too? One can only guess.''
''Whoever killed Gilmour and Tice was obviously extremely angry. Both women were stabbed repeatedly. The word “overkill” has been used to describe the murders.''
"Since there was no sign of forced entry in either of their homes, it’s natural to assume that the killer was allowed inside and then attacked.
Tice and Gilmour were intelligent women. What sort of man would be able to easily enter both homes?
“Did they have a common delivery person? Repair person?” Arntfield asks.
Could the killer have been an electrical worker? Plumber? Property manager?
There are “countless” potential names, Arntfield says. “What happened to this person?”
Both women were relative newcomers to their homes.''
''Gilmour had recently gotten obscene calls. This was in the days before ubiquitous cell phones. Her phone number wasn’t listed''
“We are still working through the genetic process,” Smith said. “We are making good progress but there are a number of challenges that have made things difficult to account for. We are hoping to have answers for the families sometime in 2022.”
May 15 2022
by Peter Edwards rbbm.
Killers ‘don’t just stop after two’: DNA proves one man killed these Toronto women. Does it say where he went?
There are “countless” potential suspects who could be connected to both Erin Gilmour and Susan Tice, says criminologist Michael Arntfield. “What happened to this person?”
''Both women were bound and stabbed repeatedly in their Toronto homes in late 1983.
“Both scenes represent a sadistic offender,” Michael Arntfield, a Western University criminologist and former police officer, said in an interview.''
''Gilmour was a single, aspiring clothing designer from an extremely wealthy family.
Her father, David Gilmour, was the business partner of tycoon Peter Munk, co-founder of the mining company, Barrick Gold.''
''Tice was a recently divorced social worker and mother of four teenage children.
Tice earned a nursing degree from McMaster University and a Master’s in social work from The University of Toronto.
They were similar in death if, not in life.''
“Both Erin and Susan were found in their beds and both suffered significant physical and sexual violence,” Smith said.
Both women lived alone.
Both Gilmour and Tice lived low-risk lifestyles.''
How did their killer connect with each of them?
Why did the killer seem to disappear after the murders?
There’s no indication that the two women knew each other.
“Where did Susan Tice and Erin Gilmour’s lives intersect?,” Arntfield asked. “They had dramatically different lifestyles.”
On the surface, Tice and Gilmour appeared quite different.
“There is no record of Susan and Erin having anything in common,” Smith said.
There was, however, one notable difference in the two murder scenes.
Gilmour’s body was covered by a comforter, while there was nothing to cover Tice’s body.''
Arntfield doubts the killer felt any particular guilt or closeness to Gilmour.
“This is more of a compulsion than any act of remorse,” Arntfield says.
So why wasn’t Tice covered too? One can only guess.''
''Whoever killed Gilmour and Tice was obviously extremely angry. Both women were stabbed repeatedly. The word “overkill” has been used to describe the murders.''
"Since there was no sign of forced entry in either of their homes, it’s natural to assume that the killer was allowed inside and then attacked.
Tice and Gilmour were intelligent women. What sort of man would be able to easily enter both homes?
“Did they have a common delivery person? Repair person?” Arntfield asks.
Could the killer have been an electrical worker? Plumber? Property manager?
There are “countless” potential names, Arntfield says. “What happened to this person?”
Both women were relative newcomers to their homes.''
''Gilmour had recently gotten obscene calls. This was in the days before ubiquitous cell phones. Her phone number wasn’t listed''
“We are still working through the genetic process,” Smith said. “We are making good progress but there are a number of challenges that have made things difficult to account for. We are hoping to have answers for the families sometime in 2022.”
imstilla.grandma
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The most advanced police sketch ever might solve cold cases
Toronto’s new DNA tech could bring new light to old crimes
www.theverge.com
I don't now how long this is supposed to take but I am wondering how difficult it is to locate these twenty or so possible matches to the DNA. Some surely could fairly quickly be excluded. I am wondering whether they are having trouble locating one or more suspects not sure if suspect is the correct word to use here. Or they could be deceased though that sure not be a huge barrier surely. One thing for sure they don't need a police sketch they just need to find all the potential matches.The most advanced police sketch ever might solve cold cases
Toronto’s new DNA tech could bring new light to old crimes
Another interesting possibility is that the killer is the product of a casual relationship. After all it is even possible that a man might not even know about offspring. Not trying to confuse things just wondering what the obstacles are to a quick match.
All those things are possibilities.
I also wonder if the following things are part of reason why it's taking so long. Police might be doing a timeline on suspect(s), so they may end up clearing or connecting several cases by the time they announce identify. Are police investigating whether or not anyone in the suspect(s) inner circle obstructed justice? that could result in charges or plea deals.
I've even wondered if the suspect(s) left Canada at some point and that would add an international snag to this... many possibilities.
Off the top of my head so for now, imo, the perp apparently came from a large family living out in small towns across Canada. speculation.
2021 rbbm.
www.cp24.com
''Leaning on genetic genealogy and family tree websites, Smith, who heads the Toronto Police’s Cold Case and Missing Persons division, says he and his team have identified one family unit of interest, which encompasses all male relatives, including first cousins, brothers, fathers and sons.
"We're not talking 3,000, 5,000 people, but we're talking a family unit where there's a number of people still involved," Smith said, adding that he and his team are anxious to see more DNA testing processed before narrowing down their search even further.
He revealed that the killer is part of a "very large" family unit.
A number of those family members were also living or visiting Toronto at the time of the murders.
"We do believe that at least a number of members of the family are still alive and living in small towns throughout Canada," Smith said.''
''But it's unclear if the killer himself is alive today.
According to Smith, the chances of that are "50/50." Nevertheless, he says he hopes to make an arrest in the next "six to eight months."
Smith did not divulge any details about the family unit he’s investigating.''
Toronto police say they're narrowing in on Erin Gilmour's killer 38 years later
Nearly 40 years after the daughter of a wealthy Toronto businessman was brutally murdered, police say they have narrowed her killer down to a member of one family tree and are close to knowing who did it.
"We're not talking 3,000, 5,000 people, but we're talking a family unit where there's a number of people still involved," Smith said, adding that he and his team are anxious to see more DNA testing processed before narrowing down their search even further.
'IT'S SOMEONE FROM A SMALL TOWN IN CANADA'
Remaining tight-lipped about specifics, Smith said the suspect is a man from a "small town in Canada" and that he was in Toronto at the time of the murders.He revealed that the killer is part of a "very large" family unit.
A number of those family members were also living or visiting Toronto at the time of the murders.
"We do believe that at least a number of members of the family are still alive and living in small towns throughout Canada," Smith said.''
''But it's unclear if the killer himself is alive today.
According to Smith, the chances of that are "50/50." Nevertheless, he says he hopes to make an arrest in the next "six to eight months."
Smith did not divulge any details about the family unit he’s investigating.''
Thought I'd clarify, I meant the possibility of the person(s) being investigated being Canadian snowbirds
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Gina20
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I would like to state the obvious: we are at the eight-month marker with no further news.2021 rbbm.
''Leaning on genetic genealogy and family tree websites, Smith, who heads the Toronto Police’s Cold Case and Missing Persons division, says he and his team have identified one family unit of interest, which encompasses all male relatives, including first cousins, brothers, fathers and sons.Toronto police say they're narrowing in on Erin Gilmour's killer 38 years later
Nearly 40 years after the daughter of a wealthy Toronto businessman was brutally murdered, police say they have narrowed her killer down to a member of one family tree and are close to knowing who did it.
"We're not talking 3,000, 5,000 people, but we're talking a family unit where there's a number of people still involved," Smith said, adding that he and his team are anxious to see more DNA testing processed before narrowing down their search even further.
'IT'S SOMEONE FROM A SMALL TOWN IN CANADA'
Remaining tight-lipped about specifics, Smith said the suspect is a man from a "small town in Canada" and that he was in Toronto at the time of the murders.
He revealed that the killer is part of a "very large" family unit.
A number of those family members were also living or visiting Toronto at the time of the murders.
"We do believe that at least a number of members of the family are still alive and living in small towns throughout Canada," Smith said.''
''But it's unclear if the killer himself is alive today.
According to Smith, the chances of that are "50/50." Nevertheless, he says he hopes to make an arrest in the next "six to eight months."
Smith did not divulge any details about the family unit he’s investigating.''
So if they know who it is and are logically wondering what else this man has done would they lay charges in this case or take time to look at other cases?
Tatiana Anikejew is the one that seems close though police have not said if they have DNA I believe. There were reports that they had suspect, someone in her life but surely if that is the case and they have DNA it would be a solved case. It gets very little attention as is sometimes the case for no apparent reason. Young, a Seneca College student, alluring in photographs - it would be great if LE or a reporter could look at that case it should be solvable. Anyway I trust there is a good reason for the delay in Tice Gilmour.
Thanks for the reminder about Tatiana, off to bump her thread..
CANADA - Canada - Tatiana Anikejew, 23, Toronto, 1 Oct 1988
https://www.torontopolice.on.ca/homicide/case/39/1988 Homicide #39/1988 Victim: Tatiana ANIKEJEW Age: 23 Gender: Female Murdered on: October 1, 1988...
www.websleuths.com
TootsieFootsie
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Toronto cops name suspect in brutal 1983 Susan Tice-Erin Gilmour murders
Toronto Police homicide detectives have arrested a suspect in the 1983 murders of career girl Erin Gilmour and single mother Susan Tice.
Toronto Police homicide detectives have arrested a suspect in the shocking 1983 murders of career girl Erin Gilmour and single mother Susan Tice.
Cops are expected to make the announcement at a 10 a.m. Monday news conference at police headquarters, The Toronto Sun has learned.
The suspect is expected to be named at the news conference.
He was a security guard in Toronto at the time.Toronto cops name suspect in brutal 1983 Susan Tice-Erin Gilmour murders
Toronto Police homicide detectives have arrested a suspect in the 1983 murders of career girl Erin Gilmour and single mother Susan Tice.torontosun.com
Toronto Police homicide detectives have arrested a suspect in the shocking 1983 murders of career girl Erin Gilmour and single mother Susan Tice.
Cops are expected to make the announcement at a 10 a.m. Monday news conference at police headquarters, The Toronto Sun has learned.
The suspect is expected to be named at the news conference.
Welcome to @Ws HeadSpun, thank you for chiming in with this awesome news!