Australia - JS, 32 y.o. man, charged w/ murder of 9 y.o. girl , Mt Wilson, 13 January 2022

[Cagney&Lacey]

In the full police interview it was mentioned they had knowledge of a phone conversation between JS & KM on the Thursday regarding the purchase of sandbags and fuel for the boat. It was specifically stated as a phone conversation not a text. How would LE be aware of that conversation as it was prior to CM being reported missing? Only 2 scenarios I can think of is KM advised them of this or someone overheard the conversation and has since reported it. Can any one else come up with another scenario?

 

[katydid23]

Has the legal team for JS been published??

I have not seen him named. I have only seen articles that described his requests to help his client feel more comfortable while incarcerated.

<modsnip>

 

[Beans]

In the full police interview it was mentioned they had knowledge of a phone conversation between JS & KM on the Thursday regarding the purchase of sandbags and fuel for the boat. It was specifically stated as a phone conversation not a text. How would LE be aware of that conversation as it was prior to CM being reported missing? Only 2 scenarios I can think of is KM advised them of this or someone overheard the conversation and has since reported it. Can any one else come up with another scenario?

I thought it might be a mistake but perhaps the conversation was recorded at one end on CCTV with audio or something similar?

 

[Wexford]

In the full police interview it was mentioned they had knowledge of a phone conversation between JS & KM on the Thursday regarding the purchase of sandbags and fuel for the boat. It was specifically stated as a phone conversation not a text. How would LE be aware of that conversation as it was prior to CM being reported missing? Only 2 scenarios I can think of is KM advised them of this or someone overheard the conversation and has since reported it. Can any one else come up with another scenario?

Yes I had similar thoughts that she may have told them (or someone who passed the info on). It also occurred to me that one phone could have been under surveillance for other reasons. Or that the wedding reception venue had CCTV with sound.

 

[Juzlooking]

No, I think he just meant that "firstly" they were certain of one thing, and "secondly" they were certain of the other. I do not think he is implying that he put her in the barrel before she was deceased.

I am of the same opinion - I think they’re making it clear at this stage that they know he placed her in the barrel and disposed of her body - I have not read anything stating they’re certain he was responsible for her actual death.
In saying this, is a murder charge possible in NSW if he were not the one directly responsible for the death.

 

[CP244]

I think it was accidental. A drug addict probably doesn't have a lot of patience? Maybe he just smacked her and she fell back and hit her head on something and died. That's the way I think it will turn out. I don't honestly believe anyone set out to end her life.

I don't think that it was accidental at all. MOO.

 

[sleepinoz]

Yes, they can. That is how we know the names of Vicky Barton, Samantha Knight and lots of others.MOO

Not at all - Vicky Barton - 1969 Samantha Knight - 1986

This legislation was made 1998

 

[Detective Willy]

In the full police interview it was mentioned they had knowledge of a phone conversation between JS & KM on the Thursday regarding the purchase of sandbags and fuel for the boat. It was specifically stated as a phone conversation not a text. How would LE be aware of that conversation as it was prior to CM being reported missing? Only 2 scenarios I can think of is KM advised them of this or someone overheard the conversation and has since reported it. Can any one else come up with another scenario?

If a person has been convicted of trafficking a commercial quantity of drugs previously it is possible that they could be under surveillance and have their phone tapped if they were suspected of being up to no good again. I wondered about this as well. The Police were very quick to pounce on him.

 

[ximenalaballena]

In the full police interview it was mentioned they had knowledge of a phone conversation between JS & KM on the Thursday regarding the purchase of sandbags and fuel for the boat. It was specifically stated as a phone conversation not a text. How would LE be aware of that conversation as it was prior to CM being reported missing? Only 2 scenarios I can think of is KM advised them of this or someone overheard the conversation and has since reported it. Can any one else come up with another scenario?

Hi there - you may want to watch the presser yourself, as it has been significantly misinterpreted and misquoted here and in MSM.

It was NOT stated that there were phone calls regarding these purchases. It was stated that there were phonecalls. Following the phonecalls, then actions were taken.

They were not aware of the conversation prior - they have looked at phone records since and can see simply that phone calls took place. The contents of the phone-calls are unknown.

 

[ximenalaballena]

Yes I had similar thoughts that she may have told them (or someone who passed the info on). It also occurred to me that one phone could have been under surveillance for other reasons. Or that the wedding reception venue had CCTV with sound.

Hi there - you may want to watch the presser yourself, as it has been significantly misinterpreted and misquoted here and in MSM.

It was NOT stated that there were phone calls regarding these purchases. It was stated that there were phonecalls. Following the phonecalls, then actions were taken by the accused who proceeded to purchase sandbags, etc etc.

LE were not aware of the conversations prior to her being reported missing. They have analysed phone records since investigating her disappearance, and can see simply that phone calls between the accused and the mother took place. The contents of the phone-calls are unknown. They most definitely did not state there was discussion between the parties about these things.

Watch here from 12:13 to clear this up:

 

[Marg944]

Respectfully the above is incorrect and based on an incorrect interpretation of the what the Deputy Commissioner said at the press conference, which we have either all seen or heard ourselves, or can do so. It is on the web.

He did not say that they intercepted calls on Thursday 13th, or that JS told KM about the sandbags and fuel. In fact they would had to have Nostradamus intuition in order to pre empt that. They can also not retrospectively 'record' your conversation after the fact. That metadata simply does not exist, even if they were given the right to access.

What he said that, from call logs, GPS and other electronic records (eg purchases and CCTV), they have ascertained that JS made calls to KM , then bought sandbags, fuel and tried to launch boat.
The transcript was posted in the previous thread. I will try and find one again.

If we all stick to the original facts, rather than quoting sensationalist tabloid sources, we can keep this discussion going, otherwise it will go in the direction of the previous one.

thanks

Yes I had similar thoughts that she may have told them (or someone who passed the info on). It also occurred to me that one phone could have been under surveillance for other reasons. Or that the wedding reception venue had CCTV with sound.

I had mentioned the phone interception idea early in this thread. I would have no doubt that LE usually do intercept phone conversations if they had someone under their radar already for other matters. I wonder if a person is on bail for whatever reason, drug dealing, or whatever major offence, that LE already were intercepting calls, just incase a person relapses into bad habits again? It is a well known fact that LE certainly do this. Not that I know if anyone in this matter were on bail or whether drugs were involved.... it is just a scenario that I am discussing. IMO.

I have attached an interesting article by the Australian Institute of Criminology on the subject.

https://www.aic.gov.au/sites/defaul...bile_phones_to_buy_and_sell_illicit_drugs.pdf

 

[they'll get you]

I find it far too much of a coincidence that she might have ingested drugs or that he might have been overcome by violence on the one night he allegedly had unsupervised access to a young girl. I’m sorry. You all know where I’m going with that so I’ll leave it there.

The autopsy will show everything but I doubt we will ever know.

 

[Chunkie Charlie]

In the full police interview it was mentioned they had knowledge of a phone conversation between JS & KM on the Thursday regarding the purchase of sandbags and fuel for the boat. It was specifically stated as a phone conversation not a text. How would LE be aware of that conversation as it was prior to CM being reported missing? Only 2 scenarios I can think of is KM advised them of this or someone overheard the conversation and has since reported it. Can any one else come up with another scenario?

They do not know contents of call, only the logs of calls that were made <modsnip>

 

[Marg944]

If a person has been convicted of trafficking a commercial quantity of drugs previously it is possible that they could be under surveillance and have their phone tapped if they were suspected of being up to no good again. I wondered about this as well. The Police were very quick to pounce on him.

Absolutely spot on Detective Willy!

 

[Marg944]

They do not know contents of call, only the logs of calls that were made. <modsnip>

<modsnip: referenced post snipped> In Deputy Commissioner David Hudson's press conference yesterday, he states that they used "electronic means" as well as other methods to obtain information on JS. The wording "electronic means" would encompass telephone interception, as well as electronic banking, etc. I have posted an article further up in this thread, regarding the interception being placed on "some" peoples telephones. Of course the Deputy Commissioner would not openly state that they had an interception on JS's phone....
Electronic does cover phone data....
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Electronic data can stand for. data in general that is exchanged via electronic communication lines. digital data in particular. Data (computing), i.e. computer-processable data as opposed to executable code.
All IMHO

 

[ximenalaballena]

<modsnip> In Deputy Commissioner David Hudson's press conference yesterday, he states that they used "electronic means" as well as other methods to obtain information on JS. The wording "electronic means" would encompass telephone interception, as well as electronic banking, etc. I have posted an article further up in this thread, regarding the interception being placed on "some" peoples telephones. Of course the Deputy Commissioner would not openly state that they had an interception on JS's phone....
Electronic does cover phone data....
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Electronic data can stand for. data in general that is exchanged via electronic communication lines. digital data in particular. Data (computing), i.e. computer-processable data as opposed to executable code.
All IMHO

hi Marg - have you watched the specific discussion?

Around 12:13 - it really doesn't seem like a matter of having bugged him prior to the reporting of her disappearance. If they had, surely they would have 'pounced' much sooner than an entire week after she was potentially killed.

If you watched the press, it is very clear that they moved to look into him as a suspect after his version of events did not corroborate what they were able to track by "electronic means", which includes:

* Logs of phonecalls between JS and KM
* GPS data of movement to various locations and shops
* CCTV at shops/petrol stations purchasing certain items, and shop records of what was purchased

I don't think it is helpful to suggest that the police were across this a full day before she was reported missing. I would urge you to watch the specific discussion which does not suggest at all that KM and JS discussed the sandbags - it is clear that they are aware only that there were discussions.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10418059/heartbroken-cousin-issues-message-sweet-innocent-cousin.html

 

[Cagney&Lacey]

Hi there - you may want to watch the presser yourself, as it has been significantly misinterpreted and misquoted here and in MSM.

It was NOT stated that there were phone calls regarding these purchases. It was stated that there were phonecalls. Following the phonecalls, then actions were taken.

They were not aware of the conversation prior - they have looked at phone records since and can see simply that phone calls took place. The contents of the phone-calls are unknown.

Thanks for that clarification Xim. I was not suggesting LE knew of the phone calls prior to when CM was reported missing. I had in actual fact listened to the presser myself but may have interpreted the pause between 'telephone conversations' and 'to purchase a number of sandbags..." incorrectly. When reading the written statement from the Daily Mail it seems clearer.

RSBM
'(There were) a number of telephone conversations, to purchase a number of sandbags - 20 kilos sandbags from the hardware store - to fuel a boat and then try and float that boat on the water at one of the one of the docks in inner Sydney,' Deputy Police Commissioner David Hudson said.

CM: Inside Surry Hills unit block where Justin Stein was arrested over barrel murder | Daily Mail Online

The above article gives a lot of insight into the living conditions of the unit block JS was arrested at.

Edited for clarity

 

[Spiralscientist]

I personally think that it is possible that:

*Grandmother last spoke to CM on Monday or Tuesday and she may have requested to talk to her from then on and been given excuses. That might be how they are getting idea of possible time the incident occurred?
*Then from then on they were able to track where he had been by looking retrospectively at the GPS signal and CCTV of his car and boat, saw he had been to Bunnings and petrol station, saw he went to Hawksbury River (which I believe they searched within a day of CM reported missing)
*They would have checked the CCTV at Bunnings and petrol station and seen him making the purchases there, they likely could have even checked what he had purchased through the register logs. Seeing that he bought so much sand would have been suss.
*Perhaps he was seen on phone whilst in Bunnings and the call logs might show that he was on phone to KM at that point? Likely their stories had been that they were both at the house on those days, with CM, so the location of him on CCTV elsewhere, and calls between them when their story was that they were together was further suss.
*The final Colo destination would have been evident via GPS/CCTV, thus how they found the barrel

Questions:
*Do we know for sure who alerted LE? I saw last night somewhere that "a family member phoned Triple O" I wondered if it was actually Grandma.
*If a person is regularly using ice, is it possible that they haven't been able to be interviewed/questioned/approached due to them having withdrawals and thus being dangerous/violent? Have I seen too many movies
*I hope that KM doesn't have access to internet to be working out their story. Someone here said that saw her Facebook status had changed.
*If both KM and JS were involved I think that they would not have said they couldn't remember what she was wearing. I don't know what to think about it. I guess a possibility is that they said what they thought she was wearing but Grandma said she didn't have anything like that packed.

 

[centred]

Thanks for that clarification Xim. I was not suggesting LE knew of the phone calls prior to when CM was reported missing. I had in actual fact listened to the presser myself but may have interpreted the pause between 'telephone conversations' and 'to purchase a number of sandbags..." incorrectly. When reading the written statement from the Daily Mail it seems clearer.

RSBM
'(There were) a number of telephone conversations, to purchase a number of sandbags - 20 kilos sandbags from the hardware store - to fuel a boat and then try and float that boat on the water at one of the one of the docks in inner Sydney,' Deputy Police Commissioner David Hudson said.

CM: Inside Surry Hills unit block where Justin Stein was arrested over barrel murder | Daily Mail Online

The above article gives a lot of insight into the living conditions of the unit block JS was arrested at.

Edited for clarity

The only thing that is clear to me re this article by DM is the continual misinterpretation
of what was actually said . I would be more inclined to take what the presser by the Commissioner actually said and go with that because it makes sense if taken verbatim . It is the only option for clarity IMO