Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #70

[Awakening]

FGM was reading the paper when WT & LT were drawing.

And it was minutes later that WT jumped off and disappeared.

Presumably this was when FM was inside making tea.

I wonder how long FGM read the paper for after FM returned with the tea and went to look for WT.

I wonder if FGM might have been absorbed in her paper and underestimated the time both had been gone?

 

[SleepyJoe]

I find it strange that you would put a bandage on your hand for a graze IMO

Not only that, but whatever injury she had was significant enough that she was still wearing a bandage 6 days later in the walkthrough. I would have expected a minor graze to have scabbed up within 6 days and require a sticky plaster at the most at that stage. I'm not sure what injury she had or why she still had it bandaged at day 6 but it certainly raises questions!

 

[JLZ]

Not only that, but whatever injury she had was significant enough that she was still wearing a bandage 6 days later in the walkthrough. I would have expected a minor graze to have scabbed up within 6 days and require a sticky plaster at the most at that stage. I'm not sure what injury she had or why she still had it bandaged at day 6 but it certainly raises questions!

Did she say it was the same injury? Otherwise possibly she might also have injured a hand during the past several days of searching.

 

[Eloise]

I just don’t believe there was enough time to cover up an accident, even taking into account a dodgy timeline. Then add in a couple of other people into the mix that you to have to keep quiet? Just doesn’t make any sense to me. I struggle to believe the police have any more idea now than they did back then……I hope I’m wrong. IMO

Still where I'm at too, honestly. As much as it all looks very, very bad for the fosters right now I still can't fathom how even with the shaky timeline, that there was any time to perform a cover up and hide a body this well.
edit: (Yes, cover ups of violence/negligence happen all too often... do the perpetrators usually only wait an hour or two before telling the cops? Not to my knowledge, based on my time here at WS seems like they give themselves a number of hours, or overnight, a few days, even a week or more. The fact that FFC called in the cops relatively quickly - of course, assuming WT was there at the times we have all been led to believe he was - makes me think it really can't be her, as much as it really looks bad for them. She really made sure there was NO evidence at the scene, and the body was hidden THAT well, and it hasn't been uncovered (literally or metaphorically) for nearly 8 years?!)

 

[LIBPOP]

Still where I'm at too, honestly. As much as it all looks very, very bad for the fosters right now I still can't fathom how even with the shaky timeline, that there was any time to perform a cover up and hide a body this well.

Completely agree. There would have to be some sinister undertone here that would lead me to believe the FF would try to cover an accidental death up. News reports suggest the FFC took WT to the ED when he hurt his eye and sustained bruising, he was also in day care, there were more eyes on him that suggest there was not sustained child abuse that they would be trying to cover up.

 

[SleepyJoe]

She really made sure there was NO evidence at the scene,

We.actually don't know what evidence was left at the scene because the whole area was trampled by hundreds of searches before any type of thorough forensic examination of the house and yard was done. And it seems that the FGMs car wasn't forensically tested at the time (that we know about).

 

[Awakening]

Not sure if it's a tissue or bandage in FM's hand but FF appears to be holding a tissue.

 

[Eloise]

We.actually don't know what evidence was left at the scene because the whole area was trampled by hundreds of searches before any type of thorough forensic examination of the house and yard was done. And it seems that the FGMs car wasn't forensically tested at the time (that we know about).

Yes but if (and we really don't know what happened, of course) it was something that left blood at all she would have at least cleaned that up, she wouldn't leave it there. That takes time. It's possible there was nothing at the alleged, possible scene to clean up, which would have given her more time, but even still... still not a lot of time to hide the body and come up with some kind of story that fooled LE this well IMO

 

[SleepyJoe]

Yes but if (and we really don't know what happened, of course) it was something that left blood at all she would have at least cleaned that up, she wouldn't leave it there. That takes time. It's possible there was nothing at the alleged, possible scene to clean up, which would have given her more time, but even still... still not a lot of time to hide the body and come up with some kind of story that fooled LE this well IMO

To be honest, if you think of potential and likely fatal mechanisms of injury that  may have occurred to a 3yo, they're not bloody affairs. Head trauma, strangulation/ suffocation, internal bleeding from trauma/violence etc don't result in a lot of blood loss, if any. IF FFC either caused his death directly or it was an accident, I doubt there would have been much or any blood to clean up. I don't think stabbing is high on the list of probabilities IMO. Quickly putting his tiny body in the car and driving it down the road, hiding it in the bushes, wouldn't have taken much time at all. JMO.

 

[Karin1974]

Yes but if (and we really don't know what happened, of course) it was something that left blood at all she would have at least cleaned that up, she wouldn't leave it there. That takes time. It's possible there was nothing at the alleged, possible scene to clean up, which would have given her more time, but even still... still not a lot of time to hide the body and come up with some kind of story that fooled LE this well IMO

I completely agree with you, despite how bad it is looking for them right now, my trouble is believing they could be so clever as to to have covered it up so well & for so long, just seems doubtful. IMO

 

[Karin1974]

To be honest, if you think of potential and likely fatal mechanisms of injury that  may have occurred to a 3yo, they're not bloody affairs. Head trauma, strangulation/ suffocation, internal bleeding from trauma/violence etc don't result in a lot of blood loss, if any. IF FFC either caused his death directly or it was an accident, I doubt there would have been much or any blood to clean up. I don't think stabbing is high on the list of probabilities IMO. Quickly putting his tiny body in the car and driving it down the road, hiding it in the bushes, wouldn't have taken much time at all. JMO.

To hide a body so well in so little time & for it still not to have been uncovered leads me to believe he’s not there. (Kendall) IMO

 

[SleepyJoe]

To hide a body so well in so little time & for it still not to have been uncovered leads me to believe he’s not there. (Kendall) IMO

Revered veteran homicide detective Ron Iddles has this to say:
"Mr Iddles said evidence could be missed during the early stages of a homicide investigation and bodies could sometimes be moved several times." BBM So, I think you're right - William isn't there, now anyway.

William Tyrrell case explained by top former detective Rod Iddles

Legendary homicide detective Ron Iddles hopes the mystery of three-year-old William's disappearance can still be solved but believes the latest large-scale search is 'the last roll of the dice'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[LIBPOP]

To be honest, if you think of potential and likely fatal mechanisms of injury that  may have occurred to a 3yo, they're not bloody affairs. Head trauma, strangulation/ suffocation, internal bleeding from trauma/violence etc don't result in a lot of blood loss, if any. IF FFC either caused his death directly or it was an accident, I doubt there would have been much or any blood to clean up. I don't think stabbing is high on the list of probabilities IMO. Quickly putting his tiny body in the car and driving it down the road, hiding it in the bushes, wouldn't have taken much time at all. JMO.

Totally agree. I once had the misfortune, with a bunch of other backpackers, of coming across a young man who had fallen from a cliff face to his death. There was no blood, his neck was broken.

 

[seekingjustice**]

Yes but if (and we really don't know what happened, of course) it was something that left blood at all she would have at least cleaned that up, she wouldn't leave it there. That takes time. It's possible there was nothing at the alleged, possible scene to clean up, which would have given her more time, but even still... still not a lot of time to hide the body and come up with some kind of story that fooled LE this well IMO

I'm thinking more along the lines that it could possibly have been an injury such as a broken neck, however if there was any blood it looks quite bushy under the railing which would be a good cover. I also struggled with the time line initially feeling that it might be a lack of time to hide a body, but as more details have come out over the past few months and listening to the FGM who said the "FFC disappeared (FGM's words) for some time" makes me believe that FFC has taken his body, put it in the FGM's car and driven somewhere local that she knows is secluded - then raced back to the house and raised the alarm. I believe the reason she called the Police when she did was only due to the circumstances of other people (FGM and neighbour) being witness to a missing child. I also don't believe that FFC left the body in the original hiding spot - she either went back there that evening or the one after or while on the way to the airport and moved his body somewhere else. IMO

 

[SleepyJoe]

Totally agree. I once had the misfortune, with a bunch of other backpackers, of coming across a young man who had fallen from a cliff face to his death. There was no blood, his neck was broken.

Have managed a lot of trauma victims in my career, there's often not a lot of blood and sometimes none.

 

[Awakening]

Unless it was something like this?

 

[SouthAussie]

I also don't believe that FFC left the body in the original hiding spot - she either went back there that evening or the one after or while on the way to the airport and moved his body somewhere else. IMO

So, the thinking is that FM took FGM and William's sister to move William's body then they all went to Port Macquarie airport to pick up the family visitor at 5pm?

(I am pretty sure that we heard from the inquest that FGM and William's sister went to the airport with FM.)

I think the only other time FM left the property (prior to driving home 9 days or so later) was the afternoon visit to the beach with a police officer, a few days later - which I think was likely so the police could go over the house with a forensic microscope (so to speak).

There was a police command centre set up outside FGM's home for days and days.

imo

 

[Green beans]

Completely agree. There would have to be some sinister undertone here that would lead me to believe the FF would try to cover an accidental death up. News reports suggest the FFC took WT to the ED when he hurt his eye and sustained bruising, he was also in day care, there were more eyes on him that suggest there was not sustained child abuse that they would be trying to cover up.

Child abuse unfortunately, like all things starts somewhere then forms a pattern. So I don’t think it can be discounted because nothing had been observed or raised prior to Williams disappearance.
That’s not to say it’s definitely what’s happened.
IMO -There is red flags to me given the current situation & removal of other foster child.

 

[T-dawg420]

Personally imo I believe its a tissue. My reasoning for this is I believe I see her thumb constantly holding onto the tissue to her palm. I don’t believe this is something you would do if its attached by adhesive to your hand.

I would be more worried about trying to read her hand movements and demonstrative hand gestures and head touching myself…of course MOO and IMO

 

[SleepyJoe]

I am pretty sure that we heard from the inquest that FGM and William's sister went to the airport with FM

I hadn't heard that before. It hasn't been reported in the media, but perhaps one of our sleuths who attended the inquest can confirm? And if they could also let us know if they can recall whether FFC's hand injury was discussed at the inquest and what was said about it?