TX - Uvalde; Robb Elementary, 19 children and 3 adults killed, shooter dead, 24 MAY 2022

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CocoChanel said:
REPEATING THE ADMIN WARNING FROM YESTERDAY:

In the face of such unspeakable tragedy, Websleuths tries to be a place where members can come to get factual information while working through the emotions that are brought forth by this type of horrific news. Websleuths has long stated that generalized debate about society’s ills does not belong here because it cannot be solved through discussion on a true crime forum. If there was a possibility that point/counterpoint arguments on our forum would prevent the next tragedy, Websleuths would allow it. Those critical discussions should absolutely take place, but not here.
Please do not debate guns, politics, mental illness, inherent evil, or other generalized topics that can only lead to conflict on this thread.

Thank you for respecting Websleuths guidelines on this.
May love and light lead the way in this dark time.
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Friendly bump.
 
sds71 said:
“A video, posted to a parent’s Facebook account and reviewed by The Washington Post, shows that families waiting outside Robb Elementary School were frustrated by the police response and wanted to attempt to enter the building themselves”

Security experts are questioning whether the standard protocol in responding to a school shooting was followed. Guidelines developed in the aftermath of the 1999 Columbine massacre instruct officers to immediately target the gunman. Kenneth Trump, a national school security expert, said that any delay in going inside will be hard to explain. McCraw has defended the response, saying officers saved lives.

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The article has a paywall so couldn't find out who McCraw is and what his views are.

If LE were being fired upon and we know that at least two who were present were injured, then the delay in going inside is certainly understandable.

Following a review of the facts of this case, I think we will eventually know more, it is too soon, IMO, to draw any conclusions since we don't have all the information yet.
 
Sundog said:
The article has a paywall so couldn't find out who McCraw is and what his views are.

If LE were being fired upon and we know that at least two who were present were injured, then the delay in going inside is certainly understandable.

Following a review of the facts of this case, I think we will eventually know more, it is too soon, IMO, to draw any conclusions since we don't have all the information yet.
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agree and If I was a parent waiting nothing would be fast enough ... even though I would not be able to do anything I would be wanting to get in and try to save my child. Just my opinion.
 
sds71 said:
“A video, posted to a parent’s Facebook account and reviewed by The Washington Post, shows that families waiting outside Robb Elementary School were frustrated by the police response and wanted to attempt to enter the building themselves”

Security experts are questioning whether the standard protocol in responding to a school shooting was followed. Guidelines developed in the aftermath of the 1999 Columbine massacre instruct officers to immediately target the gunman. Kenneth Trump, a national school security expert, said that any delay in going inside will be hard to explain. McCraw has defended the response, saying officers saved lives.

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Those poor parents.
I don't blame them if they're angry about the delay in breaching the classroom where the innocents lost their lives.

Here's another video courtesy of the daily mail :
www.dailymail.co.uk

Texas school shooting cops restrained parents trying to save kids

New video shows police restraining desperate parents outside Robb Elementary School and telling them 'we're taking care of it' while they took an hour to capture the killer inside.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
  • As they struggled to get him inside, desperate parents were held back from the school by cops with tasers
  • In new video, police are shown restraining one frantic man who asked them why they weren't in the school
  • 'We're taking care of it!' yelled one officer who was holding parents back from the scene
I get it, that the police needed to restrain the parents to prevent more deaths; but it was horrible to hear their frantic cries.
Ghastly.

My take on it is that the same restrictions already in place -- that keep the criminals out --- also hindered the police from getting into the school sooner ?

I want to know how the shooter got into the building in the first place !


Edited to add : Answered in post # 559.
Thanks, @stattlich1 !

This, to me, is the first action that should've been prevented.
My .02.
 
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I have 20 years experience working in public school. An administrator and I actually disarmed a midde school student who had a loaded .25 caliber pistol in his sock and another loaded magazine in his pocket. We even had a crazed lunatic adult enter with a baseball bat. Knives, machetes, drugs......all of what you can conjur.

Epic failure number one in this case is found in the following article, failure to secure entry doors. Our principal would be LIVID if someone left a side or rear door open, or propped open, during the school day. BIG. NO. NO.

"managed to slip in through a back door"

www.upi.com

Police: Texas shooter slipped by school officer; mom says Salvador Ramos not a 'monster' - UPI.com

Authorities are learning more about the man accused of killing 21 people at an elementary school in Uvalde, Texas -- including that he was apparently confronted by a school officer before he entered the building.
www.upi.com www.upi.com

MUST. HARDEN. THE. PUBLIC. SCHOOLS.

There were numerous teachers, and I mean numerous, who already had their concealed carry permits in our school. Almost ALL of them would have no problem carrying during the school day, and concealment would be no issue.

The local Sheriff actually is the one who issues the concealed carry permits. That is local Law Enforcement. I happen to know him.

<modsnip>

The police hesitated to enter. This killer was in that building for 40 minutes, some reports say an hour. Remember, no LE has a legal obligation in the United States to protect YOU from harm. They simply don't.

apnews.com

Onlookers urged police to charge into Texas school

A mass shooting at a Texas elementary school left 19 children and two adults dead, adding to a gruesome series of mass killings in America.
apnews.com apnews.com

We live in a violent world. The United States has it's share of violence. So does the world. <modsnip>

Schools are soft targets. If that doesn't change, the shootings in American schools will likely continue.
 
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Lusitana said:
And who's going to pay for that? What happens when a teacher simply can't deal with that?



Exactly, I didn't sign up for any of this. I'm there to teach, I'm not there to shoot anyone and to have to die and see my students die because someone with a gun decided it would be a great idea to murder a bunch of innocent people.
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There are two school districts where I live. One allows teachers to carry, one does not, though it has continued to come up. Teachers in the first district don't have to carry. It is totally voluntary. They have to do another background check, receive training etc. The sheriff's department provides the training. It has been in place for 4-5 years I believe.
 
Lusitana said:
And who's going to pay for that? What happens when a teacher simply can't deal with that?



Exactly, I didn't sign up for any of this. I'm there to teach, I'm not there to shoot anyone and to have to die and see my students die because someone with a gun decided it would be a great idea to murder a bunch of innocent people.
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I swap between clinical practice and university teaching in Canada.

For at least the last 8-10 years we have had "safety plans" in place alongside lockdown training at my downtown med school.

When a few years back a colleague asked the police instructor why university shootings were relatively rarer than those in schools her answer was simple: "Littler kids are easier to kill."

As an outsider looking into the US I see no end to this carnage without significant changes and I'm not sure the will is there. I suspect that these mass murder events are now "priced in" for some politicians in terms of what they need to say and do to retain constituent support. Appear, say "thoughts and prayers.. bad people... man traps" and move on until next time.

I don't think motive really matters in cases like these. Interventions anywhere along the way, whether that's via family services, direct mental health support and/or making the instrument(s) of mass murder much harder to acquire are clearly required. But I think all are likely needed for these incidents to be reduced in scope and number.

Revolution needed, perhaps.
 
Curiousobserver said:
Armed police engaged this suspect before he entered he school and yet he went in anyway. Lot's of good guys with guns and it made no difference what so ever.
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This is getting lost in the debate. The police did engage the shooter, he injured them and walked in past them. He barricaded himself inside a classroom. At that moment, it became a sort of hostage situation and the police were right to call for backup. The CBP tried to get into the classroom, again fell back to injuries, finally, someone got a clear shot of the killer.

Easy to criticize if you don't know the details of what happened in the chaos.
 
Anance said:
This is getting lost in the debate. The police did engage the shooter, he injured them and walked in past them. He barricaded himself inside a classroom. At that moment, it became a sort of hostage situation and the police were right to call for backup. The CBP tried to get into the classroom, again fell back to injuries, finally, someone got a clear shot of the killer.

Easy to criticize if you don't know the details of what happened in the chaos.
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and it actually did make some difference, he dropped ammo at the gate , he didn't get to take it all in with him.
 
Anance said:
This is getting lost in the debate. The police did engage the shooter, he injured them and walked in past them. He barricaded himself inside a classroom. At that moment, it became a sort of hostage situation and the police were right to call for backup. The CBP tried to get into the classroom, again fell back to injuries, finally, someone got a clear shot of the killer.

Easy to criticize if you don't know the details of what happened in the chaos.
Click to expand...

First responders on the scene recognized that the attacker, Salvador Ramos, had barricaded himself inside a classroom and was not targeting other classrooms. The early reporting on the shooting included confusion about whether Ramos targeted one or two classrooms.

“It was two rooms that were connected, so that’s why there’s misinformation. The gunman went into both,” the federal official said. “By entering the door from the hallway, you’d have access to both.”

Ramos had barricaded himself inside the joint classroom with his AR-style semi-automatic rifle, a weapon superior to the handguns police were carrying. The official said that breaching the room was seen as nearly impossible because of the disparity.

“If you have a barricaded subject and he has the advantage because he’s barricaded — if you rush through the door, not only do you have dead kids but dead cops,” the official said. "It’s suicide to try to rush a barricaded subject."

www.washingtonexaminer.com

Border Patrol agents saw taking down Uvalde gunman as 'suicide' mission

EXCLUSIVE — UVALDE, Texas — The elite tactical agents in the Border Patrol credited with taking down the gunman in Tuesday’s mass shooting at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, thought they were attempting a “suicide” mission in charging a barricaded shooter, a senior Homeland Security…
www.washingtonexaminer.com www.washingtonexaminer.com

Two or three Border Patrol Tactical Unit, or BORTAC, agents and one Border Patrol Search, Trauma, and Rescue, or BORSTAR, agent chose to attempt busting into the classroom and taking on the direct fire. Two sheriff’s deputies accompanied the agents inside.

"I don’t think a lot of people would make that decision. To me, it just speaks to those individuals who decided to make entry," the official said.
 
www.dailymail.co.uk

Grandfather of Texas school shooter reveals his blood-soaked home

New footage has revealed the blood-spattered interior of the home where Texas school shooter Salvador Rolando Ramos shot his grandmother in the face.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

New footage has revealed the blood-spattered interior of the home where Texas school shooter Salvador Rolando Ramos shot his grandmother in the face.

Independent journalist Ali Bradley shared the footage from inside the house in Uvalde, where 18-year-old Ramos began his deadly shooting spree on Tuesday by wounding his 66-year-old grandmother Celia Gonzalez.

'There's blood all over,' said the shooter's grandfather Rolando Reyes, as he gestured at an interior door frame. 'There was a pool of blood here.'

After shooting his grandmother, who called 911, the gunman fled in her truck to nearby Robb Elementary, where he barricaded himself in a classroom and killed 19 kids and two teachers before being shot dead by police.
 
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