CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #18

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re- reading this article trying to absorb the multitude of complicated relationships, work and otherwise..
''Feb 20, 2021 — Legally, Kay was still one of the four trustees of the Sherman estate, along with Jonathon, family holding company boss Alex Glasenberg, ...''

2021 rbbm.
“Currently several persons have been implicated, through witness statements, as responsible for the murders of Bernard Sherman and Honey Sherman,” a homicide detective wrote in an application for a production order in June 2018. But the detective noted that “to date, there is no evidence to elevate any of the forementioned parties to the status of a suspect.”

The detective had a long list of cellular phone numbers and they wanted access to the call log and geolocation data that would tell them who was and was not around the Sherman residence at 50 Old Colony Rd. the evening of Wednesday, Dec. 13, 2017.''

More specific allegations were made to police by the four Sherman children — Jonathon, Lauren, Alexandra and Kaelen — and a handful of Sherman friends interviewed by police.

There are extensive redactions in this part of the police documents — the names of at least three men who separately knew their father and the children’s theories as to why they were involved.

Jonathon gave two sworn statements. In one he said “there are people out there who would have a grudge against them and would have a reason to hurt them.” Jonathon’s husband of three years, Fred Mercure, also suggested a name of someone to investigate.

Lauren, the eldest Sherman child, who lives in Whistler, B.C., also pointed police in a direction.''
Daughters Alexandra and Kaelen, and their respective partners Brad Krawczyk and Jared Render, also provided their suspicions,
the documents reveal.

The Star knows, through interviews with family members including Jonathon and Alexandra, the identities of at least two of the individuals — both men — put forward by the children as potential suspects. We are not identifying them at this time. Both men were interviewed by the police and the Star, both provided alibis to police and the Star for their whereabouts, and said they had nothing to do with the murders.''
Dotr, you are ALWAYS finding new stuff! Thank you for all of it!
 
When I read 'he had twins', it kinda shocked me, because I don't think I've ever heard or thought that before, although it would make sense, considering the methods. I know I have read that he now has two male children, but I had never given thought to them both coming from the same pregnancy from the same female surrogate. If it's true the original surrogate carried and gave birth to twins, then wouldn't that substantially increase the amount to be paid to her? More risk, more wear-and-tear on the body, more after-effects to deal with, potentially more medical bills, etc? Could that be why the amounts being paid out for the surrogacy seemed so high?
Possibly, or possibly JS padded the amount just to get more money out of BS.

And earlier in the thread @newclues asked whether there were any other murders by children due to an intent by parents to give money away to charity instead of them. I'm not sure specifically if these exact circumstances existed, but there are a lot of greedy children who kill because they don't want to wait for dear old mum and dad to pass on to get their hands on the inheritance. Off the top of my head Heather Mack who killed her mom Sheila Von Wiese Mack in Bali and there was a guy named Christopher who drove from his college to his parents house then back. Below is an article with others:


In some respects, every murder is unique. But in others, the motives are all similar. Money, greed, revenge, lust, power.
 
Possibly, or possibly JS padded the amount just to get more money out of BS.

And earlier in the thread @newclues asked whether there were any other murders by children due to an intent by parents to give money away to charity instead of them. I'm not sure specifically if these exact circumstances existed, but there are a lot of greedy children who kill because they don't want to wait for dear old mum and dad to pass on to get their hands on the inheritance. Off the top of my head Heather Mack who killed her mom Sheila Von Wiese Mack in Bali and there was a guy named Christopher who drove from his college to his parents house then back. Below is an article with others:


In some respects, every murder is unique. But in others, the motives are all similar. Money, greed, revenge, lust, power.
In fact, there is a trial going on currently (just ending) with more of the same, from Dundas, Ontario. Adult son Richard Taylor is on trial for the first degree murders of his mother and her longterm husband (Carla and Al Rutherford), by fire set at the foot of their bed as they slept. I don't recall a case however, where the wealthy parents had willed giving their estate to charity. But greed is greed, no matter who was supposed to inherit it, or when. imo.
 
I know from a close and very reliable friend who knows them all that BK and JS are extremely close.
I wonder for how long BK and JS had been friends, when and how they became friends, how old at the time, and is their friendship how BK and AS met and ultimately became partners, or was it the other way around, where perhaps AS and GK had met and become partners prior to BK and JS developing a close friendship?
 
In fact, there is a trial going on currently (just ending) with more of the same, from Dundas, Ontario. Adult son Richard Taylor is on trial for the first degree murders of his mother and her longterm husband (Carla and Al Rutherford), by fire set at the foot of their bed as they slept. I don't recall a case however, where the wealthy parents had willed giving their estate to charity. But greed is greed, no matter who was supposed to inherit it, or when. imo.

Motives based on revenge over financial matters are not always obvious especially if it’s blended with mental illness. You might recall the horrific murders of the Likeness couple and their grandson in Calgary. Garland, who was the brother-in-law of Alvin’s son held a simmering grudge for years just over not being named jointly on a patent for a device that never made it to market. Prior to the arrest prevailing SM theories focused everywhere but on the culprit because nobody knew anything about the long ago dispute.
 
Motives based on revenge over financial matters are not always obvious especially if it’s blended with mental illness. You might recall the horrific murders of the Likeness couple and their grandson in Calgary. Garland, who was the brother-in-law of Alvin’s son held a simmering grudge for years just over not being named jointly on a patent for a device that never made it to market. Prior to the arrest prevailing SM theories focused everywhere but on the culprit because nobody knew anything about the long ago dispute.
Everyone in the family seemed to know about the long-time/old-time dispute though. I think in time it would've been disclosed to LE by one of the family members, and if LE was doing their job they would've then investigated the killer, Garland, and found enough suspicion to look deeper... I think it was the evidence of a neighbouring home's CCTV catching his identifiable truck that made the investigation turn to him quickly and continue on until his conviction. In this case, there doesn't seem to have been any disgruntled people worthy of pursuing yet. jmo.
 
Everyone in the family seemed to know about the long-time/old-time dispute though. I think in time it would've been disclosed to LE by one of the family members, and if LE was doing their job they would've then investigated the killer, Garland, and found enough suspicion to look deeper... I think it was the evidence of a neighbouring home's CCTV catching his identifiable truck that made the investigation turn to him quickly and continue on until his conviction. In this case, there doesn't seem to have been any disgruntled people worthy of pursuing yet. jmo.

Yes it was the unique green coloured truck spotted on CCTV that broke that case. But I’m not sure sure there was anything on the surface that made him a #1 suspect in the family’s eyes. It seemed he wasn’t able to overcome his ongoing irrational rage, including with the psychiatrist whom he was seeing weekly. Virtually everyone knows somebody who might hold a petty grudge or grievance against others but IMO it takes a special kind of crazed lunitic to act on it by killing including taking the lives of other innocent family members at the same time. What‘s burning inside the minds of some humans isn’t always noticeable by others at all. Other than domestic violence cases, without knowing anything that’s happening inside an investigation, who the perpetrator turns out to be is often not possible by outsiders to predict. JMO
 
Last edited:
Yes it was the unique green coloured truck spotted on CCTV that broke that case. But I’m not sure sure there was anything on the surface that made him a #1 suspect in the family’s eyes. It seemed he wasn’t able to overcome his ongoing irrational rage, including with the psychiatrist whom he was seeing weekly. Virtually everyone knows somebody who might hold a petty grudge or grievance against others but IMO it takes a special kind of crazed lunitic to act on it by killing including taking the lives of other innocent family members at the same time. What‘s burning inside the minds of some humans isn’t always noticeable by others at all. Other than domestic violence cases, without knowing anything that’s happening inside an investigation, who the perpetrator turns out to be is often not possible by outsiders to predict. JMO
Such bad thoughts can plague someone for a very long time repeating over and over in their minds with very detrimental affects and if left untreated may result in something bad happening as a way to try to relieve it.
 
BK may have influence over AK(AS) as a husband and AP may have influence over JS as a business associate.
and to extend that, someone close to BK or AP who is not close to any or one of the children could still benefit from a distance, who knows if someone is ashamed enough for past sins and is being extorted to pay hush money and if BS was chopping down access to that money tree? The potential outsider could have eliminated any hindrance to much more money than they could get their hands on before both B&H were killed.
 
I was watching Homicide Hunter the other day. It was a case where a mother and son had been shot in their home.

Lt. Kenda said ' I have found in cases such as these, it is always family or someone very close to family'. Kenda solved over 400 homicides in his career.
 
I was watching Homicide Hunter the other day. It was a case where a mother and son had been shot in their home.

Lt. Kenda said ' I have found in cases such as these, it is always family or someone very close to family'. Kenda solved over 400 homicides in his career.
Ha! Was about to post the exact same thing that the LE said about families and murder!
Apparently there were many people considered ''family'' by BS, wondering if he felt that way about his employees too? speculation, imo.

Re-post of some long ago info that came to mind.. rbbm.

Claire Brownell, Adrian Humphreys, Jake Edmiston
Dec 22, 2017
“They hate us. They have private investigators on us all the time, trying to investigate. The thought once came to my mind, why didn’t they just hire someone to knock me off,” Robinson quoted Barry as saying in the book Prescription Games''

''His paranoia about the lengths to which his competitors might go to undermine him wasn’t entirely irrational.

Paul Whybrow, a former undercover fraud detective with London’s famed Scotland Yard police who later worked as a private investigator, confirmed to the Post that a big pharma company had once hired him to target Sherman for investigation.

“I met Sherman a couple of times in the mid ‘90s, having worked my way up the Apotex management structure whilst posing undercover as an international pharmaceutical procurement agent looking to buy product,” Whybrow said. “At this time the pharmaceutical industry had some very dark corners.”

''Robinson’s book gives an account, which Whybrow did not deny, of a discreet meeting at a European pub in the ‘90s between Whybrow, another private investigator and a middleman for a Big Pharma company that was anxious to have the thorn-in-the-side Canadian out of the drug business.''

''Two of the investigators had just returned from Canada where they had staked out Apotex. To get up close, they had dressed as workers holding clipboards at the company’s loading bays and eating hot dogs with employees at picnic tables outside. The middleman was grasping for more''.

“What’s his sexual preference?” he asked the investigators. “Could we get him hooked up with little girls, or even underaged boys?” Though there was never any indication Sherman was interested in such things, the man was eager to “take (Sherman) out of the game,” Whybrow recalled, “whatever it takes.” If there was no basis for a sex sting, the middleman mused about setting Sherman up with a half-kilo of cocaine in his trunk.

Whatever further ideas the middleman had for dirty tricks, Whybrow said it didn’t include him, although he retains an image of Sherman as a troublesome and aggressive businessman.''

“As a businessman I believe that Sherman was ruthless in pursuit of fame and indeed fortune. Without doubt, in those days, he made enemies and was not the philanthropic all-round good guy that he is now being painted. He was always politically connected, but I believe he saw this as a form of, perhaps, protection.”
 
I was watching Homicide Hunter the other day. It was a case where a mother and son had been shot in their home.

Lt. Kenda said ' I have found in cases such as these, it is always family or someone very close to family'. Kenda solved over 400 homicides in his career.
I have such respect for him and his show, I would consider him an expert, wonder if he would ever offer up his 2 cents on current cases outside of Colorado Springs. Too bad he is retired - I assume he is not doing private investigations, if he was I would hope one of the Sherman family members would hire him, just for his valued observations and experience alone.
 
June 16 2022
''Warning: Contains graphic content.

The first person to find the bodies of Barry and Honey Sherman inside the pool room of their Forest Hill home had no doubt they were the victims of a double homicide.

“Someone has killed my clients,” Sherman real estate agent Elise Stern told the 911 operator on Dec. 15, 2017. The grotesque tableau she witnessed was to her untrained eye a double murder. The gardener, who saw the bodies a few minutes after, came to the same conclusion.''

''While eyewitnesses to the crime scene had described it to me, and a judge had released search warrant documents detailing the scene, the pictures I have seen back up, in stark fashion, what outside investigators hired by the Shermans — and the Sherman lawyer — have said from day one. That it was clearly a double murder followed by staging of the bodies.


Before I get into this story, a word of caution. It contains graphic descriptions of the Sherman bodies at the crime scene, and during their autopsies. Based on my description (from photos I viewed, police notes, and interviews with people who saw the bodies that day), Toronto Star artist Susan Kao has prepared an anatomical sketch to show the positioning of the bodies. I never met the Shermans, but I have spent a lot of time with their closest friends and some family members, both for my Star research and my book on the case. Through them, I have come to understand the tremendous grief and loss they feel. As distressing as it is for this information to be published, we believe it is important for the public to see an artist’s rendering approximating what the pathologist and the detectives saw.''
1655377432485.png

''The bodies have been placed in such a manner that someone walking in would see Honey first, then Barry, on the other side of Honey''
 
Last edited:
June 16 2022
''Warning: Contains graphic content.

The first person to find the bodies of Barry and Honey Sherman inside the pool room of their Forest Hill home had no doubt they were the victims of a double homicide.

“Someone has killed my clients,” Sherman real estate agent Elise Stern told the 911 operator on Dec. 15, 2017. The grotesque tableau she witnessed was to her untrained eye a double murder. The gardener, who saw the bodies a few minutes after, came to the same conclusion.''

''While eyewitnesses to the crime scene had described it to me, and a judge had released search warrant documents detailing the scene, the pictures I have seen back up, in stark fashion, what outside investigators hired by the Shermans — and the Sherman lawyer — have said from day one. That it was clearly a double murder followed by staging of the bodies.


Before I get into this story, a word of caution. It contains graphic descriptions of the Sherman bodies at the crime scene, and during their autopsies. Based on my description (from photos I viewed, police notes, and interviews with people who saw the bodies that day), Toronto Star artist Susan Kao has prepared an anatomical sketch to show the positioning of the bodies. I never met the Shermans, but I have spent a lot of time with their closest friends and some family members, both for my Star research and my book on the case. Through them, I have come to understand the tremendous grief and loss they feel. As distressing as it is for this information to be published, we believe it is important for the public to see an artist’s rendering approximating what the pathologist and the detectives saw.''
View attachment 349649

''The bodies have been placed in such a manner that someone walking in would see Honey first, then Barry, on the other side of Honey''
Thanks Dotr. Blockbuster article today in the Star IMO With lots of new and specific information. I do not doubt the accuracy of the content of the article in any way. Will this case ever be solved?
 
June 16 2022
''Warning: Contains graphic content.

The first person to find the bodies of Barry and Honey Sherman inside the pool room of their Forest Hill home had no doubt they were the victims of a double homicide.

“Someone has killed my clients,” Sherman real estate agent Elise Stern told the 911 operator on Dec. 15, 2017. The grotesque tableau she witnessed was to her untrained eye a double murder. The gardener, who saw the bodies a few minutes after, came to the same conclusion.''

''While eyewitnesses to the crime scene had described it to me, and a judge had released search warrant documents detailing the scene, the pictures I have seen back up, in stark fashion, what outside investigators hired by the Shermans — and the Sherman lawyer — have said from day one. That it was clearly a double murder followed by staging of the bodies.


Before I get into this story, a word of caution. It contains graphic descriptions of the Sherman bodies at the crime scene, and during their autopsies. Based on my description (from photos I viewed, police notes, and interviews with people who saw the bodies that day), Toronto Star artist Susan Kao has prepared an anatomical sketch to show the positioning of the bodies. I never met the Shermans, but I have spent a lot of time with their closest friends and some family members, both for my Star research and my book on the case. Through them, I have come to understand the tremendous grief and loss they feel. As distressing as it is for this information to be published, we believe it is important for the public to see an artist’s rendering approximating what the pathologist and the detectives saw.''
View attachment 349649

''The bodies have been placed in such a manner that someone walking in would see Honey first, then Barry, on the other side of Honey''
Thanks, dotr!!!!
from the pic only, I have not read the article yet. Wow! Do you think this is a truly "seated" position? IMO it is more a semi-laying position? where are the coats holding the arms back? I see shoes on feet and note that the two belts are not tied in the same fashion, HS has a long straight section, and BS is double tied and not wrapped around the railing in the same fashion as HS. Was this to make it appear BS hung himself up? is that how investigators close up thought maybe BS did it?

Another note the belt buckle is visible on both necks so the belt length was used to wrap the rail and "latched" at the neck.

In no way does this look like the statues to me anyway, I also assume that the bodies may have moved during the rigor process, maybe HS was in a more seated position and slid down and the belt lengthened.

The blood smear, whose blood and was it direct transfer from a person or the culprit had it on their hand and made a smudge of a victim's blood? did it show gloves used?

Also, note I do not see any blood on the floor, reports said HS was sitting in her own blood, yet it is not in the diagram.

edit to add, not sure why the pic does not have the hot tub included, the real room had a hot tub and glass wall at this end of the room.
 
Last edited:
Thanks, dotr!!!!
from the pic only, I have not read the article yet. Wow! Do you think this is a truly "seated" position? IMO it is more a semi-laying position? where are the coats holding the arms back? I see shoes on feet and note that the two belts are not tied in the same fashion, HS has a long straight section, and BS is double tied and not wrapped around the railing in the same fashion as HS. Was this to make it appear BS hung himself up? is that how investigators close up thought maybe BS did it?

Another note the belt buckle is visible on both necks so the belt length was used to wrap the rail and "latched" at the neck.

In no way does this look like the statues to me anyway, I also assume that the bodies may have moved during the rigor process, maybe HS was in a more seated position and slid down and the belt lengthened.

The blood smear, whose blood and was it direct transfer from a person or the culprit had it on their hand and made a smudge of a victim's blood? did it show gloves used?

Also, note I do not see any blood on the floor, reports said HS was sitting in her own blood, yet it is not in the diagram.

edit to add, not sure why the pic does not have the hot tub included, the real room had a hot tub and glass wall at this end of the room.
Some answers from the article
- HS may have moved/slumped down further as part of decomposition process. She is definitely lying at a greater angle than BS
- HS belt is located in the back of her neck. The belts aren't tight enough (ie enough weight) to have caused the strangulation
- thin ligature marks found on necks under the belts, indicating they were strangled with something other than the belts
- under the wrists showed signs of wrists being bound. No markings on outside of wrists. Did first pathologist miss this?
- belts were buckled around the neck and the other end looped or tied around the railing
- no info on blood smear. HS had blood on her face, possibly from the strangulation. No mention of blood on floor
- the drawing is a high level one, not meant to show all the details
- apparent drag marks on floor indicating murders may have happened elsewhere in the house and the bodies moved to their final position
 
June 16 2022
''Warning: Contains graphic content.

The first person to find the bodies of Barry and Honey Sherman inside the pool room of their Forest Hill home had no doubt they were the victims of a double homicide.

“Someone has killed my clients,” Sherman real estate agent Elise Stern told the 911 operator on Dec. 15, 2017. The grotesque tableau she witnessed was to her untrained eye a double murder. The gardener, who saw the bodies a few minutes after, came to the same conclusion.''

''While eyewitnesses to the crime scene had described it to me, and a judge had released search warrant documents detailing the scene, the pictures I have seen back up, in stark fashion, what outside investigators hired by the Shermans — and the Sherman lawyer — have said from day one. That it was clearly a double murder followed by staging of the bodies.


Before I get into this story, a word of caution. It contains graphic descriptions of the Sherman bodies at the crime scene, and during their autopsies. Based on my description (from photos I viewed, police notes, and interviews with people who saw the bodies that day), Toronto Star artist Susan Kao has prepared an anatomical sketch to show the positioning of the bodies. I never met the Shermans, but I have spent a lot of time with their closest friends and some family members, both for my Star research and my book on the case. Through them, I have come to understand the tremendous grief and loss they feel. As distressing as it is for this information to be published, we believe it is important for the public to see an artist’s rendering approximating what the pathologist and the detectives saw.''
View attachment 349649

''The bodies have been placed in such a manner that someone walking in would see Honey first, then Barry, on the other side of Honey''
Does this new position of the bodies have a different meaning than the position, we thought of knowing before?? Why were BS' legs crossed, when the position of both bodies otherwise didn't fit the sitting of the sculptures? - Strange, all together. Especially, because it seems to have been a slight problem for the killer/s, have the victims positioned in that way at all.
 
Some answers from the article
- HS may have moved/slumped down further as part of decomposition process. She is definitely lying at a greater angle than BS
- HS belt is located in the back of her neck. The belts aren't tight enough (ie enough weight) to have caused the strangulation
- thin ligature marks found on necks under the belts, indicating they were strangled with something other than the belts
- under the wrists showed signs of wrists being bound. No markings on outside of wrists. Did first pathologist miss this?
- belts were buckled around the neck and the other end looped or tied around the railing
- no info on blood smear. HS had blood on her face, possibly from the strangulation. No mention of blood on floor
- the drawing is a high level one, not meant to show all the details
- apparent drag marks on floor indicating murders may have happened elsewhere in the house and the bodies moved to their final position
Big Thank you!

still no mention of these coats that we heard in the beginning, where did that come from, it is mentioned in this article


edit to add this article


it really states it:

Counting further against the murder-suicide theory was the scene itself: The Shermans died from what police described as “ligature neck compression,” and had been found hanging from a low railing beside their indoor swimming pool with belts around their necks, their legs outstretched and their winter coats pulled back over their arms. The scene’s arrangement conveyed a baroque drama and would have been physically challenging to compose – which didn’t accord with either Barry’s personality or physical capabilities. Beyond that, it didn’t look like a murder-suicide scene. Nothing about it made sense.

why would the artist not include a winter coat if they were in them? they show BS legs crossed at his ankles and the details of shoes, pants, and what appear to be just an upper body, no shirt sleeve end like you see the pant leg hem not a bulky winter coat?

It makes me think the winter coat detail is untrue, if so why say that, who started that rumor? it was said by someone who the reporter felt was legit, so the reporter felt they had inside knowledge of the crime scene? why suggest this?
 
Last edited:
The article in the Star has some interesting new details that I was unaware of, such as the fact that the pool was at the rear of the house and that it had not been used for some time; the room was rarely cleaned because it was not used. The author speculates that the killer(s) chose that part of the house because it would likely be some time before the bodies were discovered (in fact, they were discovered two days later by a real estate agent showing the house to prospective buyers). This means that the killer(s) was quite familiar with the house, not only knowing where the pool was located but also knowing that almost nobody went there. That would narrow the field of suspects, wouldn't it?
 
Big Thank you!

still no mention of these coats that we heard in the beginning, where did that come from, it is mentioned in this article


edit to add this article


it really states it:

Counting further against the murder-suicide theory was the scene itself: The Shermans died from what police described as “ligature neck compression,” and had been found hanging from a low railing beside their indoor swimming pool with belts around their necks, their legs outstretched and their winter coats pulled back over their arms. The scene’s arrangement conveyed a baroque drama and would have been physically challenging to compose – which didn’t accord with either Barry’s personality or physical capabilities. Beyond that, it didn’t look like a murder-suicide scene. Nothing about it made sense.

why would the artist not include a winter coat if they were in them? they show BS legs crossed at his ankles and the details of shoes, pants, and what appear to be just an upper body, no shirt sleeve end like you see the pant leg hem not a bulky winter coat?

It makes me think the winter coat detail is untrue, if so why say that, who started that rumor? it was said by someone who the reporter felt was legit, so the reporter felt they had inside knowledge of the crime scene? why suggest this?
There are details missing from the drawing like bs glasses, facial features etc. Maybe KD will comment on the coats in a future article
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
215
Guests online
2,545
Total visitors
2,760

Forum statistics

Threads
592,231
Messages
17,965,509
Members
228,728
Latest member
Hoist Gracie
Back
Top