Found Deceased WY - Gabby Petito, Grand Teton National Park #86

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What was the thinking at the time when they released this statement...? "Our hearts go out to the Petito family and all who care about Gabby during this difficult time." Would have sounded too final, I suppose.

I don't know that it would have made a difference. Saying anything could have been a problem. After all, the judge did say if the L's had remained silent and had not spoken through their attorney, he would have dismissed the case.

One part of the judge's reasoning that makes no sense to me is he apparently agreed with Reilly that based on past cases, the fact that GP was dead made a difference in evaluating the outrageousness of SB's statement. But the "death cases" Reilly presented involved conduct that occurred when the family positively knew the person was dead and that's why the conduct was particularly pain-inducing and therefore outrageous. For example, in one case emotional distress was inflicted because a family was given false information about a family member's cause of death by the medical team. This was distressing in part because the family learned they had been lied to when the ME stopped the funeral. In another case cited in court and in the filings, police officers displayed photos and videos at a party that had been taken during an autopsy. The family of the deceased knew the person was dead, knew the person had been autopsied, and the family wasn't present at the party. However, people from outside the police dept were present at the party causing pain for the family.

I can understand the conduct in those two cases being deemed outrageous. I don't quite see why SB's statement falls in that category but since the judge thought it did given the claims of the P's he was mandated to temporarily assume were true (namely that the L's knew GP was dead and knew where her corpse was), I'm not sure anything said about the search would have been deemed acceptable. The P family didn't know for sure GP was dead when SB spoke, and in fact the L's may not have known either, but GP was, after all, dead.
JMO
 
I don't know that it would have made a difference. Saying anything could have been a problem. After all, the judge did say if the L's had remained silent and had not spoken through their attorney, he would have dismissed the case.

One part of the judge's reasoning that makes no sense to me is he apparently agreed with Reilly that based on past cases, the fact that GP was dead made a difference in evaluating the outrageousness of SB's statement. But the "death cases" Reilly presented involved conduct that occurred when the family positively knew the person was dead and that's why the conduct was particularly pain-inducing and therefore outrageous. For example, in one case emotional distress was inflicted because a family was given false information about a family member's cause of death by the medical team. This was distressing in part because the family learned they had been lied to when the ME stopped the funeral. In another case cited in court and in the filings, police officers displayed photos and videos at a party that had been taken during an autopsy. The family of the deceased knew the person was dead, knew the person had been autopsied, and the family wasn't present at the party. However, people from outside the police dept were present at the party causing pain for the family.

I can understand the conduct in those two cases being deemed outrageous. I don't quite see why SB's statement falls in that category but since the judge thought it did given the claims of the P's he was mandated to temporarily assume were true (namely that the L's knew GP was dead and knew where her corpse was), I'm not sure anything said about the search would have been deemed acceptable. The P family didn't know for sure GP was dead when SB spoke, and in fact the L's may not have known either, but GP was, after all, dead.
JMO
You make some very good arguments.
Yes, saying anything could have been a problem...

However, saying "The P family didn't know for sure GP was dead when SB spoke..." isn't quite accurate.

"Nicole Schmidt has revealed in the documentary, airing at 10pm on February 1, 2022, that the moment she heard Petito’s boyfriend Brian Laundrie was back in Florida without her, she knew her daughter was dead."


 
Hindsight is always 20:20, and I'm guessing that the L's question their actions concerning their son on a regular basis now that they no longer have him. They may well have been hoping to keep him out of prison, and I agree, he may have gotten a brief sentence or have been acquited, depending on how the jury saw the incident.

I bet the P's have regrets as well, since it appears there were signs that the young lovers relationship could turn toxic at times.

But, I believe that most people do what they feel is best in the moment. Sadly, none of us have a crystal ball. If we did, both sets of parents would likely have done their best to break-up that relationship.
What a good post!!
 
"I was probably more candid with her than I should've been,” Hulls recalls, warning Petito that her and Laundrie’s relationship had the markings of a “toxic” one."

“I was imploring with her to reevaluate the relationship, asking her if she was happy in the relationship with him, and basically saying this was an opportunity for her to find another path, to make a change in her life,” she said."

"I honestly haven’t looked at my body camera footage for that night. It’s hard to think about now because I feel like I could've said more to help her,” she said. “It’s hard not to second-guess myself, and wish I said more, or wish I had found the right words to make her believe that she deserved more.”

 
"I was probably more candid with her than I should've been,” Hulls recalls, warning Petito that her and Laundrie’s relationship had the markings of a “toxic” one."

“I was imploring with her to reevaluate the relationship, asking her if she was happy in the relationship with him, and basically saying this was an opportunity for her to find another path, to make a change in her life,” she said."

"I honestly haven’t looked at my body camera footage for that night. It’s hard to think about now because I feel like I could've said more to help her,” she said. “It’s hard not to second-guess myself, and wish I said more, or wish I had found the right words to make her believe that she deserved more.”

Gabby may have taken her words to heart. She may have taken the first emotional steps toward being done.... we know there's no more dangerous time for a women, than when she's trying to extricate herself from a bad relationship.

Also, those extrication attempts don't always happen definitively or even on linear fashion. Brian went home once. Maybe that was part break up. (Gabby might not have wanted to tell anyone -- not ready to tell, not sure herself, worried they'd be disappointed, etc, etc.) Maybe Brian wormed his way back in, maybe Gabby missed him and became hopeful. We all know, statistically, it often takes women five, six, seven attempts to leave abusive relationships before leaving for good.

The Merry Piglet event may have turned into a powder keg, especially if Brian felt he was losing control (of Gabby)... losing control, loses control... the ultimate way to stop her from leaving.

Gabby deserved better.

JMO
 
"I was probably more candid with her than I should've been,” Hulls recalls, warning Petito that her and Laundrie’s relationship had the markings of a “toxic” one."

“I was imploring with her to reevaluate the relationship, asking her if she was happy in the relationship with him, and basically saying this was an opportunity for her to find another path, to make a change in her life,” she said."

"I honestly haven’t looked at my body camera footage for that night. It’s hard to think about now because I feel like I could've said more to help her,” she said. “It’s hard not to second-guess myself, and wish I said more, or wish I had found the right words to make her believe that she deserved more.”

I wish that I could hug this ranger for trying to warn Gabby of the dangers of remaining in an abusive relationship. She if anything wasn't too candid, just the opposite.
 

Journalists still following the Laundrie's. Not sure how this is "news." BL's father walked in this area long before BL went off to that park/area. I wish the media would leave the L's alone and let them grieve in peace.
 
So did he pre-arrange this for money? Would a random person recognize him, take photos and then sell/snitch to a tabloid?

Journalists still following the Laundrie's. Not sure how this is "news." BL's father walked in this area long before BL went off to that park/area. I wish the media would leave the L's alone and let them grieve in peace.
Was this pre-arranged?
Were journalists following Laundries?
I don't know....
Laundries know the answer.
 
Journalists still following the Laundrie's. Not sure how this is "news." BL's father walked in this area long before BL went off to that park/area. I wish the media would leave the L's alone and let them grieve in peace.
However, I wouldn't begrudge a Dad wanting to go, walk by, or take time at where his son was last at. I may not like Laundries decisions, but everyone has the need to grieve and go where their loved one used to be.

I went where my Dad died. I wasn't close to him by any stretch of the imagination, but, it meant something for me to be there--go there.....
 
You make some very good arguments.
Yes, saying anything could have been a problem...

However, saying "The P family didn't know for sure GP was dead when SB spoke..." isn't quite accurate.

"Nicole Schmidt has revealed in the documentary, airing at 10pm on February 1, 2022, that the moment she heard Petito’s boyfriend Brian Laundrie was back in Florida without her, she knew her daughter was dead."


NS did say that. But NS said alot of things. The family wanted lots of press because that can help find a missing person. And while each of the adult family members (NS, JP, TP, & JS) spoke to the press at various times, NS did most of the talking and, understandably, she was all over the map. The two links in your post state she knew GP was dead when she heard about the van and that she revealed this for the first time in a new documentary aired in February 2022. That's not really true. She actually talked about that same thing last fall. Here's one example:


But I doubt the truth of referenced statement anyway. NS may have greatly feared GP was dead & the news the van was in FL may have been shocking. And she very likely had moments she thought GP was dead alternating with moments she hoped she was alive. But she didn't know for sure GP was dead until the body was found. And honestly, if she DID know she was dead earlier, while that would negate my argument from my previous post, that could ultimately weaken the P's case of IIED. And in their Complaint the P's say they "implored" the L's to tell them if GP was alive (after they knew the van was in FL) and if she wasn't, to tell them where her remains could be found. That suggests they didn't know she was dead no matter what NS said in an interview.

At any rate, the P's legal position in the current case seems to be they didn't know if GP was dead or alive before Sept 19. The Complaint doesn't provide a date when they claim they implored the L's to tell them if GP was alive or dead, but it sounds like that happened in conjunction with their attorney's statement on Sept 16. SB's statement was made on Sept 14. NS was told the van was in FL on Sept 11.

The judge said IF all claims the P's made were presumed to be true (claims that will still have to be proven at trial) the only outrageous action he found in the Complaint was SB's statement. The other instances of remaining silent and going camping for 2 days were not legally outrageous. And SB's statement was outrageous according to the judge because, IF the L's knew GP was dead (which still has to be proven), the statement was intended to give false hope GP would be found alive. I did not read the statement as claiming GP was alive myself. For me, the statement didn't take a position on life vs death. She could have been alive or might not have been. As I'm sure many here have, I've followed cases involving known deaths and missing bodies where LE has spoken of hoping to bring the victim home and families have said things like we want X brought home to us. That's no different from saying we want X to be reunited with her family, IMO.

If the P's knew for sure GP was dead that seems to go against claims made in their legal filings. It seems much of what gives them a case is that they didn't know if GP was alive when she was missing. If, after the fact, they are saying in interviews they knew all along she was dead, I don't think that helps their case. And in practical terms, if they knew she was dead, I don't think SB could have said anything that would have made them falsely think she was alive. Certainly the statement SB actually made wouldn't have done that.

So if the P's did know GP was dead, that would seem to negate the outrageousness of SB's statement. Or maybe it just negates it so far as NS goes. I would think it's possible an action could have harmed JP but not NS or vice versa. When he ordered that the original motion be rewritten, the judge noted separate cases needed to be made for each of the L's. It didn't seem to me that was done in a substantive way but merely depended on reformatting and providing new headings to meet the judge's order. Regardless, it would seem there could be separate effects on each of the P's. Even if they were still married to each other, they are separate people. What affects one may or may not affect the other in the same way.
JMO
 
I don't know that it would have made a difference. Saying anything could have been a problem. After all, the judge did say if the L's had remained silent and had not spoken through their attorney, he would have dismissed the case.

One part of the judge's reasoning that makes no sense to me is he apparently agreed with Reilly that based on past cases, the fact that GP was dead made a difference in evaluating the outrageousness of SB's statement. But the "death cases" Reilly presented involved conduct that occurred when the family positively knew the person was dead and that's why the conduct was particularly pain-inducing and therefore outrageous. For example, in one case emotional distress was inflicted because a family was given false information about a family member's cause of death by the medical team. This was distressing in part because the family learned they had been lied to when the ME stopped the funeral. In another case cited in court and in the filings, police officers displayed photos and videos at a party that had been taken during an autopsy. The family of the deceased knew the person was dead, knew the person had been autopsied, and the family wasn't present at the party. However, people from outside the police dept were present at the party causing pain for the family.

I can understand the conduct in those two cases being deemed outrageous. I don't quite see why SB's statement falls in that category but since the judge thought it did given the claims of the P's he was mandated to temporarily assume were true (namely that the L's knew GP was dead and knew where her corpse was), I'm not sure anything said about the search would have been deemed acceptable. The P family didn't know for sure GP was dead when SB spoke, and in fact the L's may not have known either, but GP was, after all, dead.
JMO
BBM - You have answered your own question here. As the claims in the complaint are seen as 'facts' by the judge - the claim that the L's knew GP was dead - is seen by the judge as 'fact' at this stage of the proceedings. It is for the P's to prove that this is indeed a fact at trial.
 
How coincidental is all of this? Just like the L's decide to search for Brian on their own and miraculously find him within in hours after dozens of others had searched forhim, literaly hundreds of man hours. And with his remains are his confessions. Another miraculous coincidence!

Quote RSBM.
The Laundries didn't find their son's remains nor his notebook. LE, who joined them for their search, did.
The area had been covered in water previously, making prior searches more difficult.
 
BBM - You have answered your own question here. As the claims in the complaint are seen as 'facts' by the judge - the claim that the L's knew GP was dead - is seen by the judge as 'fact' at this stage of the proceedings. It is for the P's to prove that this is indeed a fact at trial.
True but that's not really my question.

I do understand proof will be required. It's handy to have reminders of that because it seems some have read portions of the judge's order as proof of the L's culpability rather than a recitation of the P's claims. I do understand the claim SB's statement could have been intended to give false hope. I did not read the statement as implying GP was alive but I can see a person might. But for the false hope claim to be true, it will be necessary for the P's to prove the L's knew GP was dead. Not that they should have known, not that they should have strongly suspected, not that they could have found out she was dead if they had properly questioned BL, but that they did know she was dead. But my question in that previous post wasn't about false hope but, for lack of a better term, my question involved the "death magnifier."

The main reason I question whether the claim's outrageousness depended (partly) on there being a death, is not because of what the L's did or didn't know. It's because of what the P's did or didn't know.

The "death examples" provided in the plaintiffs' filing involved cases where the distressed persons knew a loved one had died and the distressing action was distressing precisely because they were in mourning. So, for example, hearing autopsy photos provided party entertainment was hurtful while mourning the deceased. I know @Warwick7 has posted articles showing NS said she knew GP was dead on Sept 11. But that's not what the P's Complaint says. So they weren't already in mourning for a known loss when SB spoke. (And if they were, how could false hope arise from an ambiguous statement?)

Imagine two moms take their children to a hospital to be evaluated for symptoms that could indicate a fatal disease. Both moms are berated for feeding their children a poor diet and letting them become fat. Child A has the disease and dies a month later. Child B doesn't have the disease and doesn't die. Even though the same things were said to the two moms and the moms were in exactly the same position when they heard those things, using the death reasoning, Mom A would have a case but Mom B might not. That seems weird.

But as I said before, it sounds like saying anything at all about the search would have been problematic. Maybe not for a false hope reason but for the death reason no matter what the L's actually knew.
JMO
 
NS did say that. But NS said alot of things. The family wanted lots of press because that can help find a missing person. And while each of the adult family members (NS, JP, TP, & JS) spoke to the press at various times, NS did most of the talking and, understandably, she was all over the map. The two links in your post state she knew GP was dead when she heard about the van and that she revealed this for the first time in a new documentary aired in February 2022. That's not really true. She actually talked about that same thing last fall. Here's one example:


But I doubt the truth of referenced statement anyway. NS may have greatly feared GP was dead & the news the van was in FL may have been shocking. And she very likely had moments she thought GP was dead alternating with moments she hoped she was alive. But she didn't know for sure GP was dead until the body was found. And honestly, if she DID know she was dead earlier, while that would negate my argument from my previous post, that could ultimately weaken the P's case of IIED. And in their Complaint the P's say they "implored" the L's to tell them if GP was alive (after they knew the van was in FL) and if she wasn't, to tell them where her remains could be found. That suggests they didn't know she was dead no matter what NS said in an interview.

At any rate, the P's legal position in the current case seems to be they didn't know if GP was dead or alive before Sept 19. The Complaint doesn't provide a date when they claim they implored the L's to tell them if GP was alive or dead, but it sounds like that happened in conjunction with their attorney's statement on Sept 16. SB's statement was made on Sept 14. NS was told the van was in FL on Sept 11.

The judge said IF all claims the P's made were presumed to be true (claims that will still have to be proven at trial) the only outrageous action he found in the Complaint was SB's statement. The other instances of remaining silent and going camping for 2 days were not legally outrageous. And SB's statement was outrageous according to the judge because, IF the L's knew GP was dead (which still has to be proven), the statement was intended to give false hope GP would be found alive. I did not read the statement as claiming GP was alive myself. For me, the statement didn't take a position on life vs death. She could have been alive or might not have been. As I'm sure many here have, I've followed cases involving known deaths and missing bodies where LE has spoken of hoping to bring the victim home and families have said things like we want X brought home to us. That's no different from saying we want X to be reunited with her family, IMO.

If the P's knew for sure GP was dead that seems to go against claims made in their legal filings. It seems much of what gives them a case is that they didn't know if GP was alive when she was missing. If, after the fact, they are saying in interviews they knew all along she was dead, I don't think that helps their case. And in practical terms, if they knew she was dead, I don't think SB could have said anything that would have made them falsely think she was alive. Certainly the statement SB actually made wouldn't have done that.

So if the P's did know GP was dead, that would seem to negate the outrageousness of SB's statement. Or maybe it just negates it so far as NS goes. I would think it's possible an action could have harmed JP but not NS or vice versa. When he ordered that the original motion be rewritten, the judge noted separate cases needed to be made for each of the L's. It didn't seem to me that was done in a substantive way but merely depended on reformatting and providing new headings to meet the judge's order. Regardless, it would seem there could be separate effects on each of the P's. Even if they were still married to each other, they are separate people. What affects one may or may not affect the other in the same way.
JMO
Your link established what I said in my earlier post. I appreciate we can discuss this back and forth. I do get lost sometimes in all your paragraphs. Ill leave it at NS's guts told her Gabby was dead when she heard the van and BL were back. But her suspicion wasn't confirmed until they found her sweatshirt and had an autopsy.
 
Your link established what I said in my earlier post. I appreciate we can discuss this back and forth. I do get lost sometimes in all your paragraphs. Ill leave it at NS's guts told her Gabby was dead when she heard the van and BL were back. But her suspicion wasn't confirmed until they found her sweatshirt and had an autopsy.
Yes, my Oct link said what your links from the spring said except-- the spring links seemed to suggest NS had never said that before. The spring links implied it was new news. It wasn't.

NS may very well have had a gut feeling on Sept 11 when told about the van. But the P's legal Complaint certainly does not suggest they already knew GP was dead when they requested information from the L's on Sept 16 through their attorney or when SB made a statement on Sept 14. In fact, the argument seemed to be they didn't know if she was dead or alive.
JMO
 
When was the L's camping trip again? If I recall correctly, the photos had everyone looking happy, and I can't imagine anyone looking happy if they suspected their son or brother of just committing a murder. I could see B faking it, but his family? I really don't think so. But, that's all just JMOO.
 
When was the L's camping trip again? If I recall correctly, the photos had everyone looking happy, and I can't imagine anyone looking happy if they suspected their son or brother of just committing a murder. I could see B faking it, but his family? I really don't think so. But, that's all just JMOO.
BBM

There is video of Sidney & Tammy Moore's daughter and son in law "cleaning" the vehicle and burning rags. All four of them looking happy. Going about everyday life like no murder had happened.

Patrick Fraser's mother went about life like nothing ever happened to her granddaughters mother. Yet got on the stand and plead the 5th to almost every question.

Lori and Chad Daybell portrayed a normal life being happy as well as taking a trip to Hawaii after the murder of her children.

Rhode family is murdered and Wagner family members went about their happy family lives.

Yes, it can happen when everyone is looking happy, even when they knew or suspected their son, brother, mother, father or daughter of just committing a murder.

 
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