Identified! VA - Annandale, WhtFem ~60, 245UFVA, 'NO CODE, DNR, No Penicillin', Dec'96 #2 - Joyce Meyer Sommers

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So glad to hear that Joyce has been identified and that her family now knows what happened to her.

As someone with estranged family members, the case hits home for me. I hope that Joyce is at peace and no longer suffering with with whatever bothered her.
 
oldmaid said:
Rest In Paradise, Joyce! This is such a sad story. I wonder if she was married? I expected her to be a mother since she was reported having a C-section scar.
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According to the news articles, she’d been married and divorced twice. As far as they know, she didn’t have any children, but there seem to be substantial gaps in her biography.

Regarding that scar—if someone had had a C-section, would she have a corresponding internal scar on her uterus? I’d think so. I know she requested no autopsy, but I’d hope they’d ignore her requests.
 
wary said:
According to the news articles, she’d been married and divorced twice. As far as they know, she didn’t have any children, but there seem to be substantial gaps in her biography.

Regarding that scar—if someone had had a C-section, would she have a corresponding internal scar on her uterus? I’d think so. I know she requested no autopsy, but I’d hope they’d ignore her requests.
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I may be totally wrong, but I think they had to do an autopsy by law?

As for the possible C-section scar and possible children, I have to wonder if, in the unaccounted-for gaps in Joyce's life, if she had a child who she either gave up for adoption or who died. It would make sense to me. There are a lot of things missing here.
 
Springrain said:
I may be totally wrong, but I think they had to do an autopsy by law?

As for the possible C-section scar and possible children, I have to wonder if, in the unaccounted-for gaps in Joyce's life, if she had a child who she either gave up for adoption or who died. It would make sense to me. There are a lot of things missing here.
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I agree. I’d hope that by law they had to do an autopsy.

And an unaccounted-for child would make sense.

I’m so glad that people who cared for her know what happened, now. Even sad news is better than none.
 
annemc2 said:
It's heartbreaking that a lack of quality mental health care likely contributed greatly to Joyce's suffering. Psychoanalysis can be a strange process, and an inexperienced or "quack" provider can contribute to continued or worsening psychological suffering. I wonder if, had she seen a behavioral therapist or medical psychiatrist, the trajectory of her life would have changed. The accounts of her siblings contrast starkly with the life that her book alludes to. Plus, she took her own life right around the advent of SSRIs, which were a revolutionary way to treat depression at the time.

What an interesting woman whose story was cut way too short. She had such a variety of experiences. The photo on the book jacket reminds me of a younger Betty White, and we know Joyce had a pretty good sense of humor. Thank you so much, @othram and thanks to everyone else who has contributed to keeping the story of our Annandale Christmas Tree Lady in motion for so many years!
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I would not necessarily assume that the sister is fully aware of Joyce's lived experiences. So often the oldest child becomes the scapegoat, and the younger siblings have no idea what the scapegoat went through because she protected them.

I know so many abuse victims whose siblings don't believe the abuse happened. I choose to believe Joyce.
 
My initial reaction to this news was "Thank God!". I honestly doubted she would ever be identified. I'd visited Annandale regularly for years as I had family there. The cemetary was near a nice apartment building and almost across the street from some sort of school with white buildings. I don't even know why I remembered it.

May she rest in peace. We all really cared so much.
 
Springrain said:
I may be totally wrong, but I think they had to do an autopsy by law?

As for the possible C-section scar and possible children, I have to wonder if, in the unaccounted-for gaps in Joyce's life, if she had a child who she either gave up for adoption or who died. It would make sense to me. There are a lot of things missing here.
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There are many abdominal surgeries that use the same type of incision. Virtually anything before laparoscopy came. Even today it is still standard for gut/colon surgery and others.
 
So pleased she has her name back and her remaining family have some closure. I do still wonder what the significance of the childs little bag was, just one of many things we will probably never know. RIP Joyce.
 
Susikatze said:
There are many abdominal surgeries that use the same type of incision. Virtually anything before laparoscopy came. Even today it is still standard for gut/colon surgery and others.
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I know there's similar types of incisions for surgeries in the abdomen, but would a coroner be able to tell the difference between those and a C-section scar?
 
Springrain said:
I know there's similar types of incisions for surgeries in the abdomen, but would a coroner be able to tell the difference between those and a C-section scar?
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Depends, not all coroners are medically trained. The scar never looked like a classical cesarean section scar to me (Paediatrician, see lots of babies born via section). She may have had other uterine surgery which would make it very difficult to distinguish, or any major abdominal surgery could look that way. It also could have been a surgical termination of pregnancy?
 
If you look up the term the "target child" or "targeted child" you'll see what Joyce meant. I was looking for her book and ended up reading more about that term. I had never heard that term before and I actually know a lot about abusive parent issues ( and family estrangement). I do believe Joyce about her abusive childhood although I understand her sister's perspective.


I'm glad her family was open ( or I should say sister, as her brother is obviously very elderly) about her story when they didn't have to be. My guess is her sister is so up in years as is her brother that they didn't feel it would cause the family embarrassment or anything at this point to have Joyce's true story out there..her sister felt it was just best to be open. Joyce unfortunately never found happiness in life at least for very long and Christmas and the holiday season can be a hard time for people who have family problems and estrangement as well as for lonely people. It could be that Christmas reminded of her traumatic holidays in her childhood, too. Just some thoughts on the time of year she committed suicide. The holiday season may well have been a tough time for her.

Of course, in winter, it was much less likely anyone would be visiting the cemetery or doing groundswork, mowing, etc and interrupt her plans. I wonder why Joyce thought her family should build her a house in Arizona. It doesn't sound like they had money. Her siblings obviously cared and care, but Joyce was obviously more at peace living her life in her own way..until the end. I wonder where she was living in late 1996. Maybe she lived close enough to walk to the cemetery? Some of the missing pieces of her story we will probably never know.
 
lizziginne said:
Depends, not all coroners are medically trained. The scar never looked like a classical cesarean section scar to me (Paediatrician, see lots of babies born via section). She may have had other uterine surgery which would make it very difficult to distinguish, or any major abdominal surgery could look that way. It also could have been a surgical termination of pregnancy?
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Thanks. I'm not well-versed on medical stuff so this is helpful :)
 
Springrain said:
I know there's similar types of incisions for surgeries in the abdomen, but would a coroner be able to tell the difference between those and a C-section scar?
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If it was a c-sec, she would have a scar on her uterus. Good thinking. The uterine incision is sewn with dissolvable sutures and the abdomen with glue/staples/dissolvable or nondissolvable sutures. Uterine incisions used during C-sections
 
Ray_of_hope said:
If it was a c-sec, she would have a scar on her uterus. Good thinking. The uterine incision is sewn with dissolvable sutures and the abdomen with glue/staples/dissolvable or nondissolvable sutures. Uterine incisions used during C-sections
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Thanks for the info! I feel like it would have to be noted in the autopsy if she did or did not have a scar on her uterus, so not sure about getting that info.
 
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