Anne Heche in critical condition following fiery car crash, 5 August 2022

[BeginnerSleuther]

If she was having a psychotic episode, could that explain her being able to still talk and flail about after being in a burning car for so long? Maybe combined with shock?

Psychosis is a thought disorder. There is nothing about psychosis that allows a person to still talk or flail about after being on fire.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't her previous mental health troubles in the context to substance abuse as opposed to an organic mental illness?

 

[GoBuckeyes]

A toxicology screen would be a routine order if alcohol/drug ingestion was suspected.

In an emergent situation, the life and health of the patient is their only concern. A similar case went to trial about 3 years back. The nurse was found innocent of all charges. She refused to do the draw until the patient was stabilized. She was actually arrested. The medical facility backed the nurse 100%.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Psychosis is a thought disorder. There is nothing about psychosis that allows a person to still talk or flail about after being on fire.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't her previous mental health troubles in the context to substance abuse as opposed to an organic mental illness?

I don't know her prior history or current history. But an organic mental health issue could easily be exacerbated by substances.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I don't know her prior history or current history. But an organic mental health issue could easily be exacerbated by substances.

I know. But my understanding was that her issues were entirely in the context of substance. There is a difference between an organic mental illness (schizophrenia) and a substance-induced psychosis. Just trying to refresh my memory on her earlier troubles.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

We should never justify reckless drivers.

They are potential killers.

MOO

That means we all are. I don't know one person who has not at one time or another driven recklessly, at least by LE standards. (speeding, eating, cell phone, headlight out, trying to find a station on the radio, dropped something in the floor, and, yes, substances fit in there too.)

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I know. But my understanding was that her issues were entirely in the context of substance. There is a difference between an organic mental illness (schizophrenia) and a substance-induced psychosis. Just trying to refresh my memory on her earlier troubles.

I'm not sure that information is available to the public. After all of the trauma she endured in her formative years, it would not surprise me at all if she has battled both an organic issue and substance abuse.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

That means we all are. I don't know one person who has not at one time or another driven recklessly, at least by LE standards. (speeding, eating, cell phone, headlight out, trying to find a station on the radio, dropped something in the floor, and, yes, substances fit in there too.)

I don't think changing the radio channel qualifies as reckless driving. I, for one, don't think I've ever been guilty of driving recklessly. I don't speed beyond 2-5 miles over the limit, don't eat, don't text, and have definitely never done drugs or alcohol while driving. I drove with a headlight out once by accident and as soon as I realized it was out, I got it fixed.

That isn't to suggest we shouldn't have compassion for AH, even if she was drinking behind the wheel. Addiction is an illness. But I think it's wrong to normalize drunk driving and suggest there's no difference between someone drinking and driving and someone changing a radio channel (assuming they're keeping an eye on the road).

 

[Stunned]

That poor man who was trying to get her out of the car when she first crashed, he tried and for his sake I’m glad there were no fatalities because he would feel responsible he didn’t try harder. He did everything he could.
I’m sure those Minis lock while in drive. She had a chance then to stop and listen to him. She continued on her entitled tantrum, harsh but true imo.

I‘m sad if she was in a manic state but a vehicle is a deadly weapon just like a gun.
Death by gun?
Death by vehicle?
Same, same in my eyes.

Suicide by gun…
Suicide by vehicle..
I wonder if that’s what we almost saw?

 

[SandyQLS]

Actor Anne Heche 'expected to pull through' following fiery Los Angeles crash, ex says

The crash into a home sparked a “heavy fire,” a Los Angeles Fire Department spokesman said.

www.nbcnews.com

Quote: "... A Los Angeles Police Department spokesperson said the crash was under investigation and that there was no immediate indication regarding its cause.

It was possible, he said, the patient would be subject to a blood draw as part of the police investigation. In California, police don't need a warrant for a blood draw if a person was arrested on a DUI charge prior to the test.

Such arrests can be made based on officers' observations and circumstantial evidence such as drugs or alcohol in a vehicle. ..."

I wonder why NBC chose to include this information while DM and some other entertainnent outlets are pushing the narrative that she cannot be tested?

 

[Stunned]

Actor Anne Heche 'expected to pull through' following fiery Los Angeles crash, ex says

The crash into a home sparked a “heavy fire,” a Los Angeles Fire Department spokesman said.

www.nbcnews.com

Quote: "... A Los Angeles Police Department spokesperson said the crash was under investigation and that there was no immediate indication regarding its cause.

It was possible, he said, the patient would be subject to a blood draw as part of the police investigation. In California, police don't need a warrant for a blood draw if a person was arrested on a DUI charge prior to the test.

Such arrests can be made based on officers' observations and circumstantial evidence such as drugs or alcohol in a vehicle. ..."

I wonder why NBC chose to include this information while DM and some other entertainnent outlets are pushing the narrative that she cannot be tested?

Is she under contract to anyone?

 

[gliving]

In an emergent situation, the life and health of the patient is their only concern. A similar case went to trial about 3 years back. The nurse was found innocent of all charges. She refused to do the draw until the patient was stabilized. She was actually arrested. The medical facility backed the nurse 100%.

Well, obviously the hospital will draw arterial blood gasses to assess any airway trauma from the fire, so there's the opportunity to run a tox screen. She'd be catheterized so there's the urine.

 

[White_Mountains]

In an emergent situation, the life and health of the patient is their only concern. A similar case went to trial about 3 years back. The nurse was found innocent of all charges. She refused to do the draw until the patient was stabilized. She was actually arrested. The medical facility backed the nurse 100%.

I believe Alex Wubbles is the nurse you are referring to who was protecting the unconscious patient’s rights. There is a video of the body cam footage in the link if anyone is interested. I use this video in a university class I teach and students are often stunned.

While it would be easy to use a blood draw at the hospital to determine serum ethanol level, in MOO, it isn’t always that easy. It isn’t that easy to obtain one for the purpose of evidence even if there is implied consent by the patient (according to California laws, this could be the case but I am not certain). The BAC procedure requires special collection, handling, and processing in such a way that the sample isn’t contaminated by alcohol used on the skin prior to the venipuncture, must have an acceptable anticoagulant and preservative in the vacutainer collection tubes, and have a documented chain of custody. Of course, there is also a time restriction since alcohol metabolizes rather quickly compared to other substances. This link contains a bulletin from the CA DOJ (from 2019) relating to the procedures. A tox screen could very well be available for clinical decision-making but may not be available/useful to LE. Hope this is helpful.

Edited: clarity

 

[SuziQ]

We should never justify reckless drivers.

They are potential killers.

MOO

I agree. I am very sorry for her that her life brought her to this. But she could have killed people. She almost killed the lady and her pets in the house. She lost everything. And she is just a renter. Probably no insurance. The first responders could have been injured or killed. The bystander who tried to help her could have been injured or killed. She needs to face punishment in court. IMO.

 

[SuziQ]

That means we all are. I don't know one person who has not at one time or another driven recklessly, at least by LE standards. (speeding, eating, cell phone, headlight out, trying to find a station on the radio, dropped something in the floor, and, yes, substances fit in there too.)

And anyone that does any of that needs to face punishment in a court of law. If you can't drive safely, do not get into a car. IMO.

The rate of automobile homicides are off the charts because of DUI's and distracted driving. I really feel that the laws need to be enforced more and punished harshly. IMO

 

[SuziQ]

Slurring Anne Heche 'joked' about drinking vodka 'with wine chasers' Slurring Anne Heche 'joked' about drinking vodka 'with wine chasers' via https://dailym.ai/android

 

[dotr]

 

[Marysmith]

Suicide by gun…
Suicide by vehicle..
I wonder if that’s what we almost saw?

That’s what I thought as well…

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I think we may be overthinking the blood tests. We routinely do all kinds of blood tests on all patients in the ED, including toxicology screens if it informs treatment. In her case, if she had been drinking, they need to be aware of potential withdrawal. This is also the case if we need to know if medicine will interact with a potential drug the person may have been using. For instance, cocaine or heroin. Now whether or not police will get that information is a different story and something we can speculate about. But actually getting the tox screen is done all the time.

The issue with Wubbles is confusing. I understand she doesn't get blood work for the police on unconscious patients and I actually agree with that. But medically, consent for a blood draw is assumed in someone who is critically ill because we need to know what's happening inside. Blood draws tell us how their kidneys are functioning, if they're vulnerable to acute cardiac issues, what their immune system may be doing, if they're losing blood. A toxicology screen is important for the reasons listed above.

 

[beatrixpotter]

That means we all are. I don't know one person who has not at one time or another driven recklessly, at least by LE standards. (speeding, eating, cell phone, headlight out, trying to find a station on the radio, dropped something in the floor, and, yes, substances fit in there too.)

Driving 90 mph in a residential zone drunk is just not remotely in the same class morally or legally as driving the speed limit and eating a taco or accidentally dropping something on the floor or changing the station on the radio. It's like comparing raising your voice at a child briefly to beating or almost killing your child.

It's extreme to pretend like the slightest fully legal distraction in a car is the same as deliberately breaking the law and doing things that are a clear and present danger to everyone around them. I have not the slightest sympathy for someone who drives intoxicated or twice the speed limit any more than I do someone who loses it and kills someone.

I have a friend who lost her husband this past year to a drunk driver and both her and her two children spent months physically recovering from the damage. The mental trauma is probably life long. The loss of their father is forever. And someone who gets in their car intoxicated or makes other blatant illegal and dangerous choices is not even close to someone who changes the radio station or drops something on the floor. Not in the same ball park at all.

I can't fathom trying to downplay or justify these reckless actions that destroy the lives of others. It's not really no big deal either that Anne Heche destroyed all the possessions some other poor woman had.

 

[rosesfromangels]

And anyone that does any of that needs to face punishment in a court of law. If you can't drive safely, do not get into a car. IMO.

The rate of automobile homicides are off the charts because of DUI's and distracted driving. I really feel that the laws need to be enforced more and punished harshly. IMO

I agree with you. However, given the injuries, she may not survive to be tried.

Amateur opinion and speculation