Australia- Two sisters in their 20s found dead inside Sydney unit had been there lengthy time, Suspicious deaths, June 2022

[dotr]

Cannot blame the sisters for being nervous of the various people who came to check out the apartment. imo.

The plumber for example, admitted that he used a ruse (checking for leaks) to look around the apartment, it may have been a well-meaning ploy, but it was a ploy and the sisters instincts were right on in that regard. imo, fwiw speculation,

Targeted Violence

Drawn from case examples of incidents from around the world, Targeted Violence: A Statistical and Tactical Analysis of Assassinations, Contract Killings, and Kidnappings is the most complete resource of information on the attack methodologies, tactics used, and groups responsible for targeted...

books.google.ca

Maybe the sisters renting a lower level apartment was a wise preemptive strike? rbbm.

"A Study of Assassination"-Transcription

''The most efficient accident, in simple assassination, is a fall of 75 feet or more onto a hard surface. Elevator shafts, stair wells, unscreened windows and bridges will serve. Bridge falls into water are not reliable. In simple cases a private meeting with the subject may be arranged at a properly-cased location. The act may be executed by sudden, vigorous [excised] of the ankles, tipping the subject over the edge. If the assassin immediately sets up an outcry, playing the "horrified wit ness", no alibi or surreptitious withdrawal is necessary. In chase cases it will usually be necessary to stun or drug the subject before dropping him. Care is required to insure that no wound or condition not attributable to the fall is discernible after death.''

VIDEO: East Village gunman posing as delivery worker rides away from murder scene on scooter

An assassin posing as a delivery worker was seen speeding off on a scooter after he fatally shot a man who answered the door to an East Village apartment, surveillance video shows. The killer knock…

www.nydailynews.com

2022 rbbm.
''An assassin posing as a delivery worker was seen speeding off on a scooter after he fatally shot a man who answered the door to an East Village apartment, surveillance video shows.
The killer knocked on Davon Venable’s fourth-floor apartment door at the Lillian Wald Houses about 10 p.m. Friday, cops said. “Did you order an Uber?” the shooter asked.''

''Rodney Skinner, a friend of Venable, said the delivery worker ruse left him nervous.
“It’s dangerous because a lot of people already don’t know who to trust. So now who do you trust? Who do you trust?” he said. “The building is locked and it has these cameras and you’re able to come do something like that to somebody. Is that safe?”

A politician let 3 'doctors' wearing full PPE into her home to treat her sick husband. In fact, they were assassins who'd come to kill her.

Carolina Echeverría, a former Honduras presidential candidate, was shot by assassins dressed as doctors come to tend to her husband ill with COVID-19.

www.insider.com

2021
''An assassination squad tricked a Honduras politician into letting them into her home before shooting her dead

Carolina Echeverría, a former presidential candidate who was running to win back her former seat assumed the visitors - dressed in full medical protective gear, including masks - were at her home to tend to her husband, who was infected with COVID-19.''

Assassin disguised as Hasidic Jew EXECUTES victim in lawless NYC

THIS is the horrific moment an assassin disguised as a Hasidic Jew executes his unsuspecting victim in broad daylight. Jermaine Dixon, 46, was shot dead as he tried to get in his car in Queens, New…

www.the-sun.com

2021
''A gunman disguised as a Hasidic Jew shot dead Jermaine Dixon in broad daylight on Monday''

Taliban Assassin 'Disguised as Student' Murdered FEFA CEO - Khaama Press

The largest online news service for Afghanistan

www.khaama.com

2021

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Yes the plumber using a ruse to get in the apartment may well have been a ploy to check on their safety but it would have come off as inauthentic. Also, it's probably completely unlawful isn't it?

 

[Charlot123]

I'm wondering how much is due to their (previous) faith? It is so forbidden for an uncovered woman to be gazed upon by a male that even having allegedly turned their back on islam, they would still have that ingrained into them since birth. So having a man come in their apartment would be quite something.

I was thinking in the same mode. It is one thing to escape the country, even to renounce Islam (not sure that the sisters did it, though), but if you were raised in a conservative, strict religious upbringing, for women to stay with a man in the same room, unattended, is a no-no. If you remember, even with her Iraqi friend, Asra met on the street.

It is not only Islam, I have seen very conservative adepts of other religion who behaved exactly the same way. And to remember the Spanish chaperones in the XIX century. Or Sicily.

And also, “vibes” work both ways. I would expect the sisters to recoil if a man showed any “normal” interest in two young, attractive females.

 

[Charlot123]

Cannot blame the sisters for being nervous of the various people who came to check out the apartment. imo.

The plumber for example, admitted that he used a ruse (checking for leaks) to look around the apartment, it may have been a well-meaning ploy, but it was a ploy and the sisters instincts were right on in that regard. imo, fwiw speculation,

Targeted Violence

Drawn from case examples of incidents from around the world, Targeted Violence: A Statistical and Tactical Analysis of Assassinations, Contract Killings, and Kidnappings is the most complete resource of information on the attack methodologies, tactics used, and groups responsible for targeted...

books.google.ca

Maybe the sisters renting a lower level apartment was a wise preemptive strike? rbbm.

"A Study of Assassination"-Transcription

''The most efficient accident, in simple assassination, is a fall of 75 feet or more onto a hard surface. Elevator shafts, stair wells, unscreened windows and bridges will serve. Bridge falls into water are not reliable. In simple cases a private meeting with the subject may be arranged at a properly-cased location. The act may be executed by sudden, vigorous [excised] of the ankles, tipping the subject over the edge. If the assassin immediately sets up an outcry, playing the "horrified wit ness", no alibi or surreptitious withdrawal is necessary. In chase cases it will usually be necessary to stun or drug the subject before dropping him. Care is required to insure that no wound or condition not attributable to the fall is discernible after death.''

VIDEO: East Village gunman posing as delivery worker rides away from murder scene on scooter

An assassin posing as a delivery worker was seen speeding off on a scooter after he fatally shot a man who answered the door to an East Village apartment, surveillance video shows. The killer knock…

www.nydailynews.com

2022 rbbm.
''An assassin posing as a delivery worker was seen speeding off on a scooter after he fatally shot a man who answered the door to an East Village apartment, surveillance video shows.
The killer knocked on Davon Venable’s fourth-floor apartment door at the Lillian Wald Houses about 10 p.m. Friday, cops said. “Did you order an Uber?” the shooter asked.''

''Rodney Skinner, a friend of Venable, said the delivery worker ruse left him nervous.
“It’s dangerous because a lot of people already don’t know who to trust. So now who do you trust? Who do you trust?” he said. “The building is locked and it has these cameras and you’re able to come do something like that to somebody. Is that safe?”

A politician let 3 'doctors' wearing full PPE into her home to treat her sick husband. In fact, they were assassins who'd come to kill her.

Carolina Echeverría, a former Honduras presidential candidate, was shot by assassins dressed as doctors come to tend to her husband ill with COVID-19.

www.insider.com

2021
''An assassination squad tricked a Honduras politician into letting them into her home before shooting her dead

Carolina Echeverría, a former presidential candidate who was running to win back her former seat assumed the visitors - dressed in full medical protective gear, including masks - were at her home to tend to her husband, who was infected with COVID-19.''

Assassin disguised as Hasidic Jew EXECUTES victim in lawless NYC

THIS is the horrific moment an assassin disguised as a Hasidic Jew executes his unsuspecting victim in broad daylight. Jermaine Dixon, 46, was shot dead as he tried to get in his car in Queens, New…

www.the-sun.com

2021
''A gunman disguised as a Hasidic Jew shot dead Jermaine Dixon in broad daylight on Monday''

Taliban Assassin 'Disguised as Student' Murdered FEFA CEO - Khaama Press

The largest online news service for Afghanistan

www.khaama.com

2021

(Recently, and not at home, I got scared by a delivery man who tried to enter my dad’s “flat”. In hindsight, I remember that he delivered before, and I tipped him, so he probably wanted to help me with a heavy box, by carrying it into the doorway, but to me it looked like uninvited entering, and I yelled at him.)

About killing - unless they were strangled in such a way that hyoid bone was crashed, lots of traces can disappear with time. Smothering with a pillow, or suffocating with a plastic bag, how much will be seen in a month?

 

[websleuth1111]

I wonder if they arrived with legitimate passports. The Building manager was shocked when he met them as they looked like little girls.the previous landlord thought they looked like they were about 13 or 14. I wonder if their ages are real or if they could be younger? Doesn’t have much to do with anything but would be interesting to know if their ages are correct.

 

[Dotta]

This case gives me a headache

Every scenario is possible.

And equally horrifying.

I'm really interested what the final Police statement will be.

 

[bfew]

I wonder if they arrived with legitimate passports. The Building manager was shocked when he met them as they looked like little girls.the previous landlord thought they looked like they were about 13 or 14. I wonder if their ages are real or if they could be younger? Doesn’t have much to do with anything but would be interesting to know if their ages are correct.

I've been pondering the exact same thing for the last few days.

And I don't buy that they came here (to Australia) on a student visa with a TAFE traffic control course listed as their course in the visa application.

 

[Dotta]

Judging by passport photos, they looked, according to me, the ages that were reported by Press.
No way 13/14.

 

[bfew]

Judging by passport photos, they looked, according to me, the ages that were reported by Press.
No way 13/14.

The 2 sisters young look is maybe more reflective of too many of the local's (Australian's) sun exposure, smoking, drugs, alcohol. and poor eating and sleeping habits.

 

[Dotta]

The 2 sisters young look is maybe more reflective of too many of the local's sun exposure, smoking, drugs, alcohol. and poor eating and sleeping habits.

The passport photos were taken in SA I think.

 

[Arboreal]

I'll post some notes from the ABC Background Briefing radio documentary. Some of these points have been raised by other posters who have listened to the documentary, but I provide these notes as a compendium
They are not in the order they appear in the documentary, but are arranged as themes.

Notes on “What happened to the Saudi sisters?” [Notes, part 1]

ABC Background Briefing (BB)

Reporters: Reporters Rachael Brown and Mahmood Fazal

Timeline

2017, ??: Arrived in Australia

Address unknown until October, 2018:

2018, October – 2020, early (?April?): Smithfield. They lived in a granny flat attached to a house occupied by Rita and her parents. The landlord says the sisters were referred to him by Settlement Services International (SSI) as asylum seekers.

2020, early (?April?) - 2021, November: Bankstown

2021, November: Moved into Canterbury apartment, 115.

Comment on timeline:

1. the ABC reporter does not say whether BB tried to contact SSI.

2. The Guardian news site stated it had confirmed the sisters were asylum seekers / refugees. The ABC reporter does not seem to have followed this up.
3. The reporters say they spoke to a wide range of people who had contact with the sisters, including workmates. However, none of their comments are included, which is a pity.


How were they found? The sheriff.

The building manager, Michael, told BB that the Sheriff came to the sisters’ apartment regarding unpaid rent. The sheriff entered the apartment, found one sister who was clearly dead, left and called police. Police attended and found the other sister.

Michael – building manager:

- he was not present when they moved in but he told the BB that they moved in November, 2021.

- he said “the girls were very scared, very afraid, of something and we are not sure what it was; or some one”.

- he was told, but did not see, that the sisters were in separate bedrooms and naked.

- believes the “whole thing” is strange. Believes something untoward happened.

- the sisters reported that their Uber eats delivery was tampered with (26/1/22)

- Michael also said the sisters told him some one was watching them, standing between a van and a car.

- Michael mentioned that a plumber who entered the apartment to fix a leak and reported that the sisters were frightened and that he had a bad feeling about the apartment and did not want to go back. “Something definitely happening in that apartment that’s not good”. The sisters stayed in the corner of the front room and said nothing the entire time the plumber was in the apartment. The ABC contacted the plumber who did not want to talk to BB.

- Michael called police who conducted a welfare check. The sisters said everything was OK.

- Michael said he went into the apartment, using a pretext that he later revealed to the sisters, as he wanted to be sure there was no one else there. They refused to tell him anything. (03/22)

- The ABC reporter did not ask Michel what the apartment was like and how furnished, decorated it was.

Access to apartment

The BB documentary said that the apartment could be entered via the balcony. Entering this way would enable access to the apartment but to avoid being caught on CCTV.

 

[Arboreal]

Notes on “What happened to the Saudi sisters?” [Notes, part 2]

ABC Background Briefing (BB)

Reporters: Reporters Rachael Brown and Mahmood Fazal

Doubts about suicide

Refugee lawyer, “Lucy”: the suicide theory “does not ring true”. The women from Saudi Arabia she helps have ensured rape, daily continual beatings, other brutalisation. “Very difficult to believe it is suicide”.

Hayat said she herself thought of suicide – only in Saudi Arabia before her escape.

The building manager does not think the sisters killed themselves: “The whole thing is strange”. “I personally think something untoward happened”.

The plumber was “really jittery”. The plumber told BB that he does not know “if this was suicide or whether someone was after the young women”. He does not want to be involved. The reporter did not explore why the plumber was so “jittery”.

The ABC reporters began by suspecting suicide, but now say they are not so sure.

BB reporter Mahmood Fazal contacted people in the Sydney Saudi community, who were not keen to talk. The people contacted were not convinced the sisters’ deaths were murder. If it was, they do not want to be anywhere near it as they are “really worried about repercussions here [in Australia]”. The reason is that the Saudi Arabian government has a “presence” in Australia.

Seeking asylum

During international stopovers, border officials who suspect Saudi woman intends to claim asylum, can cancel her visa and detain her. It gives the Saudi embassy time to be contacted and for a father, uncle, brother cousin to show up and take her against her will back to Saudi Arabia. Women fleeing are stopped at airports in Malaysia, Thailand, Philippines, prevented from entering those countries, and put on aircraft that take them back to Saudi Arabia. It seems the “primary line” – the first immigration point in airports is being used to thwart asylum and refugee claims.

“Hayat”, a Saudi woman who was granted asylum in Australia, said that this has also occurred in Sydney airport and they were turned back because they asked for asylum in the airport. “And no one heard anything from them since”.

Are Saudi women refugees safe in Australia? No.

“Hayat” said that even though the sisters made it safely to Australia, they may have lived in fear, specifically, that they would be tracked here and returned to Saudi Arabia against their will.

“Lucy” a refugee asylum seeker advocate, says that during the initial period in which a refugee/asylum claim is being made, she will never ask for her clients’ addresses until she has submitted a protection claim, because it makes the claimants “so vulnerable”. Someone may just sweep thought and shove them on a plane”.

What – or who – were the Alsehli sisters afraid of?

BB reporter Rachael Brown said that she heard from “someone with detailed knowledge of the sisters’ situations” is that they were scared of a male relative and they were worried he would come over or send someone over to get them. BB reporter Mahmood Fazal said he spoke to someone who was “some how associated with the [sisters’] legal case”. They told Fazal that the sisters thought a private investigator was following them.

Possible family member in Australia

ABC BB reporter Mahmood Fazal finds possible family member in Australia. This person has travelled back and forth between Australia and Saudi Arabia. When he asks contacts in the Saudi community in Australia about this person, “everyone goes underground”. We can only speculate why this may have happened.

The sisters also believed a private investigator was following them.

Lack of support services – a contributing factor?

Asylum Seeker Resource Centre said that a Australian government program, Status Resolution Support Services, that provided income support to some 7000 people whiel their claims were being assessed, had its funding slashed in 2018. It can now only support about 70 people. The cuts were designed to force those deemed “employable” off the program and into paid work.

It is not clear from the BB documentary whether the Alsehli sisters were affected by these cuts.

 

[Arboreal]

Notes on “What happened to the Saudi sisters?” [Notes, part 3]

ABC Background Briefing (BB)

Reporters: Reporters Rachael Brown and Mahmood Fazal
Anomalies, questions and reflections

1. On two occasions, a stranger, a man, was seen in the lobby of the building a few weeks prior to the sisters’ deaths. This man was was spoken to by another resident the second time the resident spotted him. This man, who was of “middle eastern appearance”, “could have looked Saudi”, when asked what he was doing, said he was associated with Apartment 115 – the apartment where the sisters lived. The lobby has CCTV as does all entries and exits. It should be possible to get a photograph and ask Rita, whether this person was the “Iraqi man”. The hallways do not have CCTV.

2. The reporters were photographed by a man driving a silver Lexus. It is not clear whether they managed to see and note this vehicle’s licence plate. However, there are many cameras along Canterbury Road, and given the time of day, it would not be too difficult to identify it.

3. Various people have made reports to police who have not followed up the reports. Additionally, people who have knowledge of the sisters lives – such as Rita and her family, their landlord, don’t seem to have been interviewed by the police.

4. The crucifixes. It seems these were found and they are necklaces. But the circumstances of their being found and significance is not really addressed by the ABC reporters.

5. The sisters had submitted asylum claims by October 2018 (we know this because their landlord told the ABC that when they applied to live in the Smithfield granny flat in October, 2018 the sisters were referred to him by Settlement Services International (SSI) as asylum seekers. Yet, according to the Guardian, at the time of their deaths, they still had active asylum cases and these had not been finalised by Australian government authorities. After four years. How long does it usually take? BB did not address this question.

6. Rita and her family reported that the sisters did have visitors, including a male, 30-32, and Iraq with a back beard and possibly the elders sister’s “boy friend”. The “Iraqi” was the only male to have visited them. Have these leads been followed up?

7. Why did the sisters move residence so often? Did they have to, say because a lease ended, or because they were trying to lay low and avoid being found? BB did not canvass this question.

8. Reports said the sisters left food in the common area. This could be the lobby or a corridor. We heard in the BB documentary, they believed their Uber eats had been tampered with. Did they leave food in the common area because they feared leaving the apartment to collect it?

9. The sisters believing they were being followed by a private investigator, we being watched by a man outside their apartment and also believing their food was being tampered with, suggests they believed they were being harassed. It could make them appear paranoid, rather like the movie Gaslight. Such tactic are designed not only yo make their life miserable but to induce them to make a mistake and lave them vulnerable to an attack or being expelled.

10. The BB documentary did not canvass whether the sisters were still working. The reporters suggest they contacted the sisters’ workmates so it would not be too difficult to find out. In other publications, the sisters were described as good tenants, as indeed, they were by Rita’s landlord. This is important because:

11. ceasing work and ceasing to pay rent could provide an indication when they began to believe they were being harassed and were in danger.

12. The BB reporters do not seem to have investigate whether the sisters’ lawyers and refugee services were checking on them and keeping an eye on them for their welfare.

 

[websleuth1111]

Judging by passport photos, they looked, according to me, the ages that were reported by Press.
No way 13/14.

From the photos I think they look early 20s late teens also. Perhaps they were just small framed.

 

[bfew]

Did they leave food in the common area because they feared leaving the apartment to collect it?

Maybe they did not want food delivery people coming to their apartment door, and left instructions with their order for it to be left in a common area inside their apartment block. Knowing that if anybody stole the food from the common area that it would be captured on CCTV.

 

[websleuth1111]

Judging by passport photos, they looked, according to me, the ages that were reported by Press.
No way 13/14.

From the photos I think they look early 20s late teens also. Perhaps they were just small framed.

 

[websleuth1111]

I'm interested to know whether they stopped walking over to the BP around their time of death or a month or two before. If before, I think this indicates someone may have been guarding them in the apartment (not letting them out). I would love to hear from their workmates and learn about when they last worked, how often they worked etc.
The Lexus is creepy- Lexus is very popular in the middle east- Yes, this is complete stereotyping, but If I were asked what a wealthy Saudi would drive, I would say Toyota Landcruiser or a Lexus... I know they are status symbols there. Nescafé, Lexus, Prada top most loved brands in Middle East

 

[websleuth1111]

Maybe they did not want food delivery people coming to their apartment door, and left instructions with their order for it to be left in a common area inside their apartment block. Knowing that if anybody stole the food from the common area that it would be captured on CCTV.

I don't think delivery drivers would or could make it to their door. In most apartments in Melbourne (Sydney would be the same), you require a key fob which you have to tap in the lift to get to your floor. The lift won't move without it, and it usually only gives access to your level, no higher. Delivery drivers are also under the pump here and pretty much dump and run, even my deliveries to my front door; if I see them coming and open the door as they drop the delivery, they are usually already back down the driveway on their way back to their van within seconds. They don't have time to waste.

 

[bfew]

I don't think delivery drivers would or could make it to their door. In most apartments in Melbourne (Sydney would be the same), you require a key fob which you have to tap in the lift to get to your floor. The lift won't move without it, and it usually only gives access to your level, no higher.

The last high rise reasonably new residential apartment I went into in Sydney a few years back, the occupants could remotely activate someone get access to their lift floor, from their apartment.

I'd use the external building intercom to buzz their apartment (can't recall whether this had video capabilities), and when I got to the lift, I was able to get up to their floor, via the lift, from them remotely activating the lift access to their floor for a pre-set short amount of time by the building security system.

Even if the building by-laws prohibited letting any food or parcel delivery people into the lifts and up to your floor or unit communal corridor outside of the lifts (including any special temporary by-laws during COVID), some residents might have flaunted these rules from time to time.

 

[vls12345]

Inside the apartment where two Saudi sisters were left decomposing

Asra Abdullah Alsehli, 24, and Amaal Abdullah Alsehli, 23, died a month before their bodies were found in their Canterbury unit, in Sydney's south-west. The unit is for lease and still smells like decay.

www.dailymail.co.uk